Early Indications Are the New Viking Stadium

[Ish88888]

Sobering thought - out here Arizona State has close to 70,000 students - that's right, 70,000. And there are 5 million people within 45 minutes of Sun Devil Stadium. They are struggling to sell out their 50,000 seat (newly refurbished) stadium.

AMEN

 

[kirbivore]

Well, sorry but I think your economic theory in this instance is pretty goofy.

A fan base that draw 30,000 for BB, can certainly draw 50,000 or even 60,000 for football - provided that the football team competes at the same level that the BB team competes.

That's a Fuccillo HUGE variable there. Even if the football team went on that kind of run (like 1987-1998) they still may not get those attendance numbers. There was a larger and younger population back then.

 

[Millhouse]

That's a Fuccillo HUGE variable there. Even if the football team went on that kind of run (like 1987-1998) they still may not get those attendance numbers. There was a larger and younger population back then.

One thing I always mention is that the huge basketball crowds take away from football. There are only so many games people can go to in a year. Our giant basketball crowds are part of the reason I think we get small football crowds

 

[Orangepace]

Love our reno plans but for the love of god , make the capacity 44,444. This smaller, but charming capacity has worked all across mlb and will increase the value of our home ticket once we get rolling.

People are complaining about prices now.. The value to the consumer can go up, but the pricing may be stuck where it is for a while. Barring an overhaul of the STH and preferred seating system (long overdue), it is what it is.

 

[upperdeck]

people talk like we get 30K a game for bball.. there are a ton of empty seats for every bball game and we have 15K empty for a majority of the games.. 1-3 big crowds a year is nice but far from the norm. we have more below 20K crowds than above 30K during the year

 

[Toga]

Was it wrong that I laughed really hard at this?

 

[CuyahogaCuse]

Well, sorry but I think your economic theory in this instance is pretty goofy. A fan base that draw 30,000 for BB, can certainly draw 50,000 or even 60,000 for football - provided that the football team competes at the same level that the BB team competes. Reducing capacity does not spur fan interest. Winning at a high level spurs interest and attendance. Somebody mentioned my experience in Philadelphia in one of the posts of this thread. In fact, Philadelphia offers pretty good guidance. I go to about 30 Phillies games per season - I go to at least one game per series. Back when the Phillies were winning at a high level, Citizens Bank Park was sold out every night - 45,000. Now, with the Phillies losing a lot, we normally get between 15,000 to 23,000. Our market is probably upwards of 5 million. The stadium is great. The seats are great. The food is pretty good. The experience at the park is still fun. But, attendance has dropped by nearly 30,000 per game. The answer is not ballpark capacity. It's all about winning and losing. Once the Phillies become a contender the fans will flock back to the park. That's the real economics of the situation.

Unless you are the Cleveland Indians.

Better hope Syracuse is more like Philly than tje Tribe.

 

[Briancuse]

Was it wrong that I laughed really hard at this?

It would only be wrong if you didn't.

 

[kcsu]

Plan for success not failure. The only reason to reduce seating is if it is required to accommodate the addition of amenities.

 

[bubba1917]

Maybe we should reduce capacity because the population within a reasonable daytrip drive time is declining at a rapid clip; therefore, even a winning program will struggle to fill a large stadium.

Not so sure. Onondaga County pop has been within 3 or 4k for 50 years.
Some of the other metro areas are declining. We are older and poorer, but
the pop is more than large enough for the domes size.

 

[TheCusian]

Look at the 90s

It's not the 90's

 

[Millhouse]

Plan for success not failure. The only reason to reduce seating is if it is required to accommodate the addition of amenities.

we shouldn't be measuring success by accommodating the max possible crowd

 

[xc84]

Big stadiums that are half filled make things worse, highlighting who is not there.

There are years and years of dome data, economic info, and census type data to properly decide on a number. I'd bet a small reduction wouldn't matter either way. Better amenities, aesthetics, and game day experience would help more with recruiting for this area.

Of course empty seats are bad. So let's fill them by improving the W-L and stadium. Let's not solve this by reducing the seating numbers to the match the numbers coming now.

 

[xc84]

we shouldn't be measuring success by accommodating the max possible crowd

No one is doing that.

 

[xc84]

Average attendance

1987 44,490
1988 46,081
1989 48,885
1990 47,022
1991 43,444
1992 49,318
1993 48,092
1994 47,746
1995 43,276
1996 48,177
1997 45,865
1998 47,898
1999 46,741
...
2009 39,043
2010 40,064
2011 40,504
2012 45,854
2013 38,276
2014 40,447
2015 32,102

 

[Millhouse]

people talk like we get 30K a game for bball.. there are a ton of empty seats for every bball game and we have 15K empty for a majority of the games.. 1-3 big crowds a year is nice but far from the norm. we have more below 20K crowds than above 30K during the year

i'm ok with that for basketball because 18k is still a lot for basketball

but you are right, when people know they can get to any game they could want, they might not go to lesser games

with football though, we're having problems with our best games but even when things get better, we'll still have that problem.

you need far fewer seats than you have total fans. how many distinct people actually go to syracuse games compared to other programs? no way to know that but i'd love to know. teams with huge fan bases fill the stadium with different people, i bet - sharing tickets, etc.

 

[Ish88888]

Not so sure. Onondaga County pop has been within 3 or 4k for 50 years.
Some of the other metro areas are declining. We are older and poorer, but
the pop is more than large enough for the domes size.

Agree and for the love of god, can su market more to the albany/capital district!!??? Thats where i live and you cant find an su hat or Shirt until you hit utica. Lets schedule ualbany as our fcs one year and get the dino and jim tour bus to albany next year! Its crazy, 2 hrs away, state capital, zero marketing.

 

[Millhouse]

Average attendance

1987 44,490
1988 46,081
1989 48,885
1990 47,022
1991 43,444
1992 49,318
1993 48,092
1994 47,746
1995 43,276
1996 48,177
1997 45,865
1998 47,898
1999 46,741
...
2009 39,043
2010 40,064
2011 40,504
2012 45,854
2013 38,276
2014 40,447
2015 32,102

the average of our best years is 47. average of all those years is 44.

 

[xc84]

the average of our best years is 47. average of all those years is 44.

So 50K is about right though it will likely be reduced to about 47 due to new seat-backs/arm-rests. I am ok with that. I just don't want to reduce seating simply to get to a point where we know it will always be filled even in bad times. (30K) . Even at 44K, lots of empty seats using current attendance figures.

 

[TheCusian]

Of course empty seats are bad. So let's fill them by improving the W-L and stadium. Let's not solve this by reducing the seating numbers to the match the numbers coming now.

There are years and years of data. The number is probably self-evident. It's not some kind of guessing game or philosophical question.

I'd bet the data says a reduction is smart if the tradeoff is worthwhile to ease the pain points. But that's a guess.

I'd make an emotionless data driven decision.

 

[Eric15]

Part of it is simply demographics. The Syracuse metro area in 1990 had a population of around 750K. Today it's around 650K. That, combined with the fact that many large-scale blue collar employers are no longer around.

 

[Millhouse]

So 50K is about right though it will likely be reduced to about 47 due to new seat-backs/arm-rests. I am ok with that. I just don't want to reduce seating simply to get to a point where we know it will always be filled even in bad times. (30K) . Even at 44K, lots of empty seats using current attendance figures.

no one is saying 30k

 

[MSOrange]

Part of it is simply demographics. The Syracuse metro area in 1990 had a population of around 750K. Today it's around 650K. That, combined with the fact that many large-scale blue collar employers are no longer around.

In addition to that, the at home experience with HDTVs has obviously improved dramatically since the 1990s

 

[Millhouse]

In addition to that, the at home experience with HDTVs has obviously improved dramatically since the 1990s

and every game being televised

 

[Eric15]

1992 49,318

The fact that we used to get near sellout crowds for Rutgers and Temple is just incomprehensible now.