Ennis headed back to the D-League. 2 questions ?

[AlpharettaCuse]

In order to improve your draft prospects, they have to be present in the first place. Of course guys like Dieng and Napier stayed three and four years. Where else err they going to go?

So you're saying neither player would have been drafted in the second round had they left a year earlier? They were drafted #21 and #24. I'd say both improved their draft stock by staying that extra year.

 

[Knicks411]

thus the steady and persistent ratings decline. the people have spoken : ncaa>nba.

You can't really compare TV ratings, because they are pretty much always in decline due to the proliferation of tv channels. The NBA just signed a pretty lucrative (understating it) TV deal, so the tv networks seem to be ok with the ratings.

Also, the ratings aren't really in a steady decline anyway. They bottomed out in 2007. In 2012 the network games had the highest ratings since 2000.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CO1tv_gcac

And that was a regular season game on the road.

So was this the other night.

 

[Knicks411]

Spurs-Blazers triple OT from a week ago Friday was an insane game

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not really... The problem with the internet (and I do know it) is that tongue in cheek ribbing with a big smile, doesn't always come across as such. Anyway there was absolutely no attempt at veiling anything. It was a long day and I have George Carlin type outbursts of partially reading things and using them literally in twisted versions, oft times going entirely against the intent from which they were delivered.

If I were to answer in a serious vein, I would however, wonder how you can possibly not know of any player that bettered themselves by staying while looking at the 2 from last year (from SU) that would have bettered themselves playing wise. Now, given that I can not read someone else's mind, you very well may not have the ability to remember anyone that bettered themselves. Some only remember positives, others only negatives and the some only remember selectively. I found it highly unlikely that someone posting on this board could seriously not think of anyone that stayed and vastly improved their status. So I chuckled and busted your chops a bit. Again not always something one should do via internet.

Please keep in mind that I do not take myself too seriously most of the time. This carries over to how I usually take others as well. I would rather joke around, grin, have a beer or two with most everyone on this board, than to personally attack them.

LOL. my bad.

 

[HOFCeluck]

So you're saying neither player would have been drafted in the second round had they left a year earlier? They were drafted #21 and #24. I'd say both improved their draft stock by staying that extra year.

I don't remember either guy projected to go in the draft.

...but I'm talking about guys who are projected to be first round or lottery types.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

LOL. my bad.

No bad to distribute other than to the internet and my Carlinesque tendencies.

Almost game time.

GO SU!!!!!

 

[Cheriehoop]

To be fair Melo and Wes Johnson only played 1 year at SU.

Most if those players either played in a different era or weren't solid first round picks when they remained.
DC/ Orr/Sherman played in an era where Michael Jordan stayed in school 3 years, Pat Ewing/Larry Bird stayed 4 years, Magic Johnson/Isiah Thomas stayed 2 years and were considered radicals.
In today's CBB if your a first round pick your staying 1 or 2 years sadly.

I thought the question was name "a single guy who stayed in school and improved his prospects" though? What were their prospects when these players started their college careers or even the year before they left? Weren't they drafted because they stayed in school, developed their game, wasn't that the question? Jerami wasn't a solid 1st round draft pick either - he was 9th in the 2nd round, at least Ennis was picked 18th and did get better money.

Jerami could have declared after his freshman year also since he turned 19 in March of 2013. Tyler and Jerami became valuable because they played at SU while showcasing their abilities, potential. I often wonder why some fans and even Jerami believed that he wouldn't develop and that his stock would have dropped if he'd stayed another year. So little confidence even after the summer before his sophomore year being sidelined by mono and not yet developing physically missing preseason conditioning? I'm happy for him that he was drafted by Philly because he's at least playing in the NBA there. If he had risen to just the 20th pick after this year, his junior year, his guaranteed salary would be $2,957,438 vs the $1,729,938 he got as the 9th pick in 2014's 2nd round. I guess I believe that he lost money on his deal more than he, his family or many fans did. I would have worked to be at least the 20th draft pick after this year and a hefty 71% salary increase. Going a year early may have cost him big $. Wonder where his brother, Jerian, will get drafted with more years under his belt despite both having almost identical scoring averages after their sophomore years (12.3 Jerian, 12.1 Jerami) ?

No way Hakim was a high draft choice after 2003. That was one of the deepest drafts in NBA history with Lebron, Melo, Wade, Bosh, TJ Ford, Hinrich, Collison, David West, Troy Bell, Ridnour, Sweetney, Dahntay Jones, the foreign draftees etc. He didn't make the USA basketball team that year either in the summer of 2003. He didn't make an All Big East team (Okafor, Julius Page, Brandin Knight, Ben Gordon, Craig Smith etc) but got most improved. He wasn't on anyone's draft list in 2003.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I thought the question was name "a single guy who stayed in school and improved his prospects" though? What were their prospects when these players started their college careers or even the year before they left? Weren't they drafted because they stayed in school, developed their game, wasn't that the question? Jerami wasn't a solid 1st round draft pick either - he was 9th in the 2nd round, at least Ennis was picked 18th and did get better money.

Jerami could have declared after his freshman year also since he turned 19 in March of 2013. Tyler and Jerami became valuable because they played at SU while showcasing their abilities, potential. I often wonder why some fans and even Jerami believed that he wouldn't develop and that his stock would have dropped if he'd stayed another year. So little confidence even after the summer before his sophomore year being sidelined by mono and not yet developing physically missing preseason conditioning? I'm happy for him that he was drafted by Philly because he's at least playing in the NBA there. If he had risen to just the 20th pick after this year, his junior year, his guaranteed salary would be $2,957,438 vs the $1,729,938 he got as the 9th pick in 2014's 2nd round. I guess I believe that he lost money on his deal more than he, his family or many fans did. I would have worked to be at least the 20th draft pick after this year and a hefty 71% salary increase. Going a year early may have cost him big $. Wonder where his brother, Jerian, will get drafted with more years under his belt despite both having almost identical scoring averages after their sophomore years (12.3 Jerian, 12.1 Jerami) ?

No way Hakim was a high draft choice after 2003. That was one of the deepest drafts in NBA history with Lebron, Melo, Wade, Bosh, TJ Ford, Hinrich, Collison, David West, Troy Bell, Ridnour, Sweetney, Dahntay Jones, the foreign draftees etc. He didn't make the USA basketball team that year either in the summer of 2003. He didn't make an All Big East team (Okafor, Julius Page, Brandin Knight, Ben Gordon, Craig Smith etc) but got most improved. He wasn't on anyone's draft list in 2003.

I'm still trying to figure out why your list includes Carmelo Anthony.

If you are considered a lottery pick or first round talent, you are better off going than staying. I guess I should have refined my statement a little. Marcus Smart at best got drafted att he same point he would have in 2013. He left a years worth of NBA earnings on the table. James Michael McAdoo stayed in school three years, went undrafted, and finds himself in the same place as Ennis. Going back further Chris Thomas and Terrence Morris stayed longer than they probably should have, and it cost them.

 

[Francis03]

Ennis plays for 2 different teams, one in the minor leagues riding a bus. I cannot imagine a worse situation at his age.

He's not taking a bus, but you can continue believing and saying that. Yeah millions of guaranteed $$$ is a terrible situation for a 20yr old. As others have stated, he's playing behind a talented trio of guards. Minutes just aren't there at the moment but eventually his time will come whether with the Suns or somebody else to prove his worth. Coming back to SU would've been great for us the fans, but I can't blame him for striking when the iron was hot.

 

[Czar]

Like the song says, "Stop right there ..." The NBA is less about basketball than it is about making money with a basketball. If you don't understand the difference, I don't think you really know what's going on out there. The driving engine of the NBA is the "star system."

I don't think anyone doubts this, but it's not any different from any other professional league. Stars run the show. You could argue it's to a higher degree in the NBA, but let's not act like the NFL doesn't revolve around one single position at the moment.

Thus the rules, officiating, playing styles, coaching styles together are aimed at promoting the stars; each and every part of it and all of it in concert. That means the stars get all the calls. Anyone who doesn't see that, might consider watching something other than the ball.

I don't see it. At least, I don't see it to the point where it's any different than any other league. Superstars are always watched more in any sport. It's human psychology at a point. However, your coaching styles comment seems... misguided? Of course coaches promote their stars with their offenses, why wouldn't you build your offense around your best players?

Half the league can't score without traveling and it's simply ignored.

Old cliche that has no basis in fact. Every level of basketball sees players get away with a travel every now and then. To say otherwise is confirmation bias.

Officials are told very clearly what calls they can and cannot make, because if it's revealed that the NBA's "stars" lack the skills of the average HS kid, their fans will soon discover the emperor needs a better wardrobe.

And women's basketball has better fundamentals. Yes, I'm sure Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, and the NBA superstars are being ferried through their pro careers under the protection of corrupt refs, at the behest of Adam Silver, who has decided who will be a superstar with their referee treatment. And those same players have less skill than a High School player. I like where this debate is going.

Apparently you like the tinsel and glitter where others don't.

I like a league where the average player can make an open mid range shot, sure.

Fine, but stop trying to tell others that because the NBA does not interest them that they're "not basketball fans." That's just fatuous arrogance.

I may have been strong, but on the whole, I'm right. If people liked college or other levels more because of reasons that made sense, I was all for it. You're still a basketball fan just drawn to a different level. That statement was more for you, guy who believes the NBA is a shadowy cabal.

It seems to me you believe attaching yourself to the NBA somehow validates your opinion over others. Well, it doesn't. I played and reffed at the college level and coached many years at the HS level. There's always something more to learn out there, and IMO one learns much more watching college ball than pro. I'm comfortable with what I believe basketball to be and what it's not, and I use my own eyes and ears to make up my own mind on that.

False Authority Fallacy

 

[Fireball Jr.]

I don't think anyone doubts this, but it's not any different from any other professional league. Stars run the show. You could argue it's to a higher degree in the NBA, but let's not act like the NFL doesn't revolve around one single position at the moment.



I don't see it. At least, I don't see it to the point where it's any different than any other league. Superstars are always watched more in any sport. It's human psychology at a point. However, your coaching styles comment seems... misguided? Of course coaches promote their stars with their offenses, why wouldn't you build your offense around your best players?



Old cliche that has no basis in fact. Every level of basketball sees players get away with a travel every now and then. To say otherwise is confirmation bias.



And women's basketball has better fundamentals. Yes, I'm sure Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, and the NBA superstars are being ferried through their pro careers under the protection of corrupt refs, at the behest of Adam Silver, who has decided who will be a superstar with their referee treatment. And those same players have less skill than a High School player. I like where this debate is going.



I like a league where the average player can make an open mid range shot, sure.



I may have been strong, but on the whole, I'm right. If people liked college or other levels more because of reasons that made sense, I was all for it. You're still a basketball fan just drawn to a different level. That statement was more for you, guy who believes the NBA is a shadowy cabal.



False Authority Fallacy

This is why you're the Czar!

 

[Bayside44]

He's not taking a bus, but you can continue believing and saying that. Yeah millions of guaranteed $$$ is a terrible situation for a 20yr old. As others have stated, he's playing behind a talented trio of guards. Minutes just aren't there at the moment but eventually his time will come whether with the Suns or somebody else to prove his worth. Coming back to SU would've been great for us the fans, but I can't blame him for striking when the iron was hot.

1.5 or whatever, the government gets it's share, agent, etc gets their share. Not a ton left over if he doesn't get that second contract. He's basically a AAAA player now. If that was a good plan so be it. To me more investment in college could've yielded a better reward for both of those guys.

 

[HOFCeluck]

1.5 or whatever, the government gets it's share, agent, etc gets their share. Not a ton left over if he doesn't get that second contract. He's basically a AAAA player now. If that was a good plan so be it. To me more investment in college could've yielded a better reward for both of those guys.

If by "better reward" you mean "more wins for your personal enjoyment" then sure.

 

[Bayside44]

If by "better reward" you mean "more wins for your personal enjoyment" then sure.

I don't like seeing people doing things for short term gain when there can be a much greater gain. He's not a Dion Waiters finished product (neither is Grant). I think both those guys could've developed - Grant to a first round pick and Ennis into a much stronger player who would not play in the D League. And I just don't buy into the first contract being a be-all and I don't buy into the notion that staying would expose them to be lesser players.

 

[Cowtown]

I don't think anyone doubts this, but it's not any different from any other professional league. Stars run the show. You could argue it's to a higher degree in the NBA, but let's not act like the NFL doesn't revolve around one single position at the moment.



I don't see it. At least, I don't see it to the point where it's any different than any other league. Superstars are always watched more in any sport. It's human psychology at a point. However, your coaching styles comment seems... misguided? Of course coaches promote their stars with their offenses, why wouldn't you build your offense around your best players?



Old cliche that has no basis in fact. Every level of basketball sees players get away with a travel every now and then. To say otherwise is confirmation bias.



And women's basketball has better fundamentals. Yes, I'm sure Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, and the NBA superstars are being ferried through their pro careers under the protection of corrupt refs, at the behest of Adam Silver, who has decided who will be a superstar with their referee treatment. And those same players have less skill than a High School player. I like where this debate is going.



I like a league where the average player can make an open mid range shot, sure.



I may have been strong, but on the whole, I'm right. If people liked college or other levels more because of reasons that made sense, I was all for it. You're still a basketball fan just drawn to a different level. That statement was more for you, guy who believes the NBA is a shadowy cabal.



False Authority Fallacy

I made my point, you just choose to see things differently. No problem, have fun with your tinsel and glitter, though you'd probably find still more validation on some NBA fan board.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Most top draft picks are not finished products...and iwish we'd just dispense with this silly "you can't get stronger in the League" trope.

 

[Bayside44]

Most top draft picks are not finished products...and iwish we'd just dispense with this silly "you can't get stronger in the League" trope.

Yeah but Ennis isn't even close. Grant would've gotten the 1st round payday staying following his developmental path and this draft.

 

[two3zone]

Yeah but Ennis isn't even close. Grant would've gotten the 1st round payday staying following his developmental path and this draft.

How wasn't Ennis even close? Other than getting stronger and have a better shot, there's really not much else. Both of those things he can work on while getting paid.

 

[Francis03]

1.5 or whatever, the government gets it's share, agent, etc gets their share. Not a ton left over if he doesn't get that second contract. He's basically a AAAA player now. If that was a good plan so be it. To me more investment in college could've yielded a better reward for both of those guys.

So coming back would've guaranteed what you're saying? All it takes is a blown ACL or the scouts having another year to pick apart his game for his stock to drop like a ton of bricks and become the next McAdoo or Chris Thomas from Notre Dame. My argument is only for Ennis. Grant, I 100% agree should've came back and no doubt would've been a mid 1st in 2015 at worse. Lucky for him unlike Tyler, he got drafted into a situation where he's getting an opportunity much quicker to show his stuff(pause).

 

[Bayside44]

How wasn't Ennis even close? Other than getting stronger and have a better shot, there's really not much else. Both of those things he can work on while getting paid.

Being stronger and having a better shot are pretty big deals. The clock is ticking on him now and the way it looks he won't play a minute of meaningful basketball this season.

 

[two3zone]

Being stronger and having a better shot are pretty big deals. The clock is ticking on him now and the way it looks he won't play a minute of meaningful basketball this season.

And there is zero doubt in my mind that he has access to better facilities, has more free time shooting, and practices much more than he would at Syracuse.

 

[Bayside44]

So coming back would've guaranteed what you're saying? All it takes is a blown ACL or the scouts having another year to pick apart his game for his stock to drop like a ton of bricks and become the next McAdoo or Chris Thomas from Notre Dame. My argument is only for Ennis. Grant, I 100% agree should've came back and no doubt would've been a mid 1st in 2015 at worse. Lucky for him unlike Tyler, he got drafted into a situation where he's getting an opportunity much quicker to show his stuff(pause).

We agree on Grant - it's almost dumb luck he landed with Philly but good for him.

I don't buy the argument that Ennis should leave before he gets exposed (Do McAdoo and Thomas get that second contract for leaving early or is the argument to get over on a team and GM before you get run off?). A stronger Ennis would get himself into a better position to stick long term. That won't happen obviously so we'll see in a couple of years how this plays out.

 

[tbonezone]

lotta posts but basically two camps here:
pros - it's a good idea to jump after your frosh year take the cash and play d- league.
cons- develop your game, get selected higher and earn bigger bucks down the road.

too simple?

 

[Bayside44]

And there is zero doubt in my mind that he has access to better facilities, has more free time shooting, and practices much more than he would at Syracuse.

In Bakersfield and D League road games (or NBA road trips for that matter)? Those kids at SU have the key to Melo 24-7.