Finally Watched The Game Again

[anomander]

Finally forced myself to watch the play back and took a few things away. Actually feel a bit worse now then I did after seeing it live.

Defense got gouged and couldn't believe some of the missed assignments. On 3 of those long tds it had nothin to do with physical talent, but more of defensive breakdowns. 3 of the long touchdowns were on miscommunications between our safeties and corners. Eskridge was a culprit twice, and the first td was on Wilkes. It seems like there is too much thinking going on and not enough reacting. Our DC definitely isn't putting them in positions to make plays.

On another td Cam Lynch was over matched in coverage. Wouldn't mind seeing Kirkland in during obvious passing downs.

Spruill played one of the best games of his career.

Their center dominated Raymond

Other then a bull rush our DE's don't have any pass rush moves

Whigham is a player. Needs to be in, but needs to cut the celebration stuff.

Same goes for Kelly and Morgan. Both were in much better position the entire game then Wilkes and eskridge

Chad Morris is an outstanding OC. They were definitely more talented, but he was toying with Bullough

Offensively I am a bit more worried. They seemed to know where we were going every play. They had 6-7 men around the ball almost every single play. Outstanding job by Vernables

Hunt will be good with experience . Game looked a little fast but he should be ok

Broyld is on the same level athletically as Clemson, but his hands hurt us at times.

West was actually open a couple times, once for a td if he was led. Didn't do as bad as originally thought.

Play calling was predictable

Smith is an NFL back. He needs 75% of carries

Good pass protection, but again struggled to get a consistent push on run plays. Foy is pretty good

Too predictable play calling. Our OC was also severely out matched

Finally we need to stop the celebratif and dancing. It was actually embarrassing watching that when we are down 4 tds. I am fine with the dancing when we come on the field, but really needs to be cut out you didn't see Clemaon doing that


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[anomander]

I also wanted to add that we looked a ton better when we were able to play man coverage. Maybe more okie or dime in obvious passing situations? Eskridge and Wilkes are outstanding against the run, but struggle just as bad in passing situations. I know it's not our style, but maybe we have to adapt to our personnel? With that said Whigham, Morgan, and Kelly seem like more rounded players who can do both pretty well. Whigham has outstanding potential. I hope to see a lot more of him and Reddish at corner


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[Cuseregular]

Finally forced myself to watch the play back and took a few things away. Actually feel a bit worse now then I did after seeing it live.

Defense got gouged and couldn't believe some of the missed assignments. On 3 of those long tds it had nothin to do with physical talent, but more of defensive breakdowns. 3 of the long touchdowns were on miscommunications between our safeties and corners. Eskridge was a culprit twice, and the first td was on Wilkes. It seems like there is too much thinking going on and not enough reacting. Our DC definitely isn't putting them in positions to make plays.

On another td Cam Lynch was over matched in coverage. Wouldn't mind seeing Kirkland in during obvious passing downs.

Spruill played one of the best games of his career.

Their center dominated Raymond

Other then a bull rush our DE's don't have any pass rush moves

Whigham is a player. Needs to be in, but needs to cut the celebration stuff.

Same goes for Kelly and Morgan. Both were in much better position the entire game then Wilkes and eskridge

Chad Morris is an outstanding OC. They were definitely more talented, but he was toying with Bullough

Offensively I am a bit more worried. They seemed to know where we were going every play. They had 6-7 men around the ball almost every single play. Outstanding job by Vernables

Hunt will be good with experience . Game looked a little fast but he should be ok

Broyld is on the same level athletically as Clemson, but his hands hurt us at times.

West was actually open a couple times, once for a td if he was led. Didn't do as bad as originally thought.

Play calling was predictable

Smith is an NFL back. He needs 75% of carries

Good pass protection, but again struggled to get a consistent push on run plays. Foy is pretty good

Too predictable play calling. Our OC was also severely out matched

Finally we need to stop the celebratif and dancing. It was actually embarrassing watching that when we are down 4 tds. I am fine with the dancing when we come on the field, but really needs to be cut out you didn't see Clemaon doing that


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I actually had the opposite reaction last night after watching it, though I agree with most of your other observations. I feel better in the sense that, no certainly we're still light years from getting Clemson good (top 5 that is), but the missed assignments on long passes, mental breakdowns, etc. are the major reason for the disparity in yards. Meaning that can be fixed. Further meaning that from what I saw out there (first game for me seeing the details of what we have this year after being away for a while), from what I saw last night I have no doubt we can compete with everyone on our schedule sans FSU going forward (compete and win mind you).

As my HS coach who is played up there and stays connected up there, he said pre season this is a team that finally for the first time in recent memory passes the look test, and more importantly, has enough players and talent to have a winning season. Most of the success Clemson had was scheme type stuff that overwhelmed us mentally and in many cases as you note physically. So again we may not have the horses to beat a Clemson but I'm convinced we do most everyone else.

THERE IS talent to win now. Spruill was a beast as you said. There was one hit on Watkins across the middle where he hit him so hard that Watkins just kept looking up at him like What was that which was pretty funny. Agree on Hunt, after vacillating a bit he is the qb of the future. Smith made himself NFL millions with that run as he ultimately outran defenders even one who had the angle on him. You're right, feed the beast. OL by and large did great and on that Smith TD run Mackey blocked TWO guys in succession to spring Smith. Think Lynch is athletic enough to do the job as that TD was pin point precision passing from a sr. Heisman running qb, he was right in position and simply needed to either turn around or get his hand up and no td. As for that celebrating crap, spot on, they better rein that in this week in film sessions calling out some guys like Whigam and Bromley, etc and embarrassing them. I hope and pray we have that type staff.

All that said I'm convinced after watching the film this team has what it takes to get to a bowl and I was certainly not thinking that way after Saturday, Go Orange!

 

[cuseguy]

Clemson center must be pretty good. Raymon is a beast.

 

[TheCusian]

That hit on Boyd by Spruill was nice too. Lit him up.

 

[anomander]

I actually had the opposite reaction last night after watching it, though I agree with most of your other observations. I feel better in the sense that, no certainly we're still light years from getting Clemson good (top 10 that is), but the missed assignments on long passes, mental breakdowns, etc. are the major reason for the disparity in yards. Meaning that can be fixed. Further meaning that from what I saw out there (first game for me seeing the details of what we have this year after being away for a while), from what I saw last night I have no doubt we can compete with everyone on our schedule sans FSU going forward (compete and win mind you).

As my HS coach who is played up there and stays connected up there, he said pre season this is a team that passes the look test, and more importantly, has enough players and talent to have a winning season.

Most of the success Clemson had was scheme type stuff that overwhelmed us mentally and in many cases as you note physically. So again we may not have the horses to beat a Clemson but I'm convinced we do most everyone else.

THERE IS talent to win now. Spruill was a beast as you said. There was one hit on Watkins across the middle where he hit him so hard that Watkins just kept looking up at him like What was that which was pretty funny. Agree on Hunt, after vacillating a bit he is the qb of the future. Smith made himself NFL millions with that run as he ultimately outran defenders even one who had the angle on him. You're right, feed the beast. OL by and large did great and on that Smith TD run Mackey blocked TWO guys in succession to spring Smith. Think Lynch is athletic enough to do the job as that TD was pin point precision passing from a sr. Heisman running qb, he was right in position and simply needed to either turn around or get his hand up and no td. As for that celebrating crap, spot on, they better rein that in this week in film sessions calling out some guys like Whigam and Bromley, etc and embarrassing them. I hope and pray we have that type staff.

All that said I'm convinced after watching the film this team has what it takes to get to a bowl and I was certainly not thinking that way after Saturday, Go Orange!

We definitely agree I guess I just see it a bit differently as you say it can be easily fixed, which I agree it could be, but it has happened so many times this year alone I am kind of doubting it. Wilkes has been getting torched for 4 years. What makes him and Esk so good against the run is what hurt then against the pass. They are both so aggressive they bite on play action, or get caught peeking far too much. Can it be fixed? Certainly, but they are going to need to change the way they play .

There were a bunch of plays where Clemsons superior talent won out. Off the top of my head the play where Watkins ran past Anderson, and the play where Boyd went back shoulder to Watkins down to the 1 on Lyn were pure talent. Same as you said with the tight end td on Lynch, and the pin point accurate pass down the sidelines to Bryant. Their OL also had a consistent good push on the run for the most of the game, but like you said I feel our defense is too physically talented to get torched like that. The main problem is our safeties, but I also think there is far too much thinking going on. Sometimes simple is better .



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[anomander]

Clemson center must be pretty good. Raymon is a beast.[/quot

There was one play where he actually turned him and sealed him springing their back for 15, and another where he got pancaked.


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[TheCusian]

We definitely agree I guess I just see it a bit differently as you say it can be easily fixed, which I agree it could be, but it has happened so many times this year alone I am kind of doubting it. Wilkes has been getting torched for 4 years. What makes him and Esk so good against the run is what hurt then against the pass. They are both so aggressive they bite on play action, or get caught peeking far too much. Can it be fixed? Certainly, but they are going to need to change the way they play .

There were a bunch of plays where Clemsons superior talent won out. Off the top of my head the play where Watkins ran past Anderson, and the play where Boyd went back shoulder to Watkins down to the 1 on Lyn were pure talent. Same as you said with the tight end td on Lynch, and the pin point accurate pass down the sidelines to Bryant. Their OL also had a consistent good push on the run for the most of the game, but like you said I feel our defense is too physically talented to get torched like that. The main problem is our safeties, but I also think there is far too much thinking going on. Sometimes simple is better .



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We held the run game in check. That's one area I'm not worried at all.

 

[Cuseregular]

We definitely agree I guess I just see it a bit differently as you say it can be easily fixed, which I agree it could be, but it has happened so many times this year alone I am kind of doubting it. Wilkes has been getting torched for 4 years. What makes him and Esk so good against the run is what hurt then against the pass. They are both so aggressive they bite on play action, or get caught peeking far too much. Can it be fixed? Certainly, but they are going to need to change the way they play .

There were a bunch of plays where Clemsons superior talent won out. Off the top of my head the play where Watkins ran past Anderson, and the play where Boyd went back shoulder to Watkins down to the 1 on Lyn were pure talent. Same as you said with the tight end td on Lynch, and the pin point accurate pass down the sidelines to Bryant. Their OL also had a consistent good push on the run for the most of the game, but like you said I feel our defense is too physically talented to get torched like that. The main problem is our safeties, but I also think there is far too much thinking going on. Sometimes simple is better .



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Yep. I mean "fixed" in the sense that the staff need to do exactly as you noted and simplify things. Though it would cause a strain up front I think they're good enough to handle it, if they're going to keep the same guys out there they'll need to at least occasionally introduce some type of prevent zone d out there and break the field up into 1/3rds both up front and deep where you don't leave your zone, this against teams with such vertical threats. You may die a slow water torcher death in drip drip fashion with short and intermediate passes anyway, but it will requires more plays to get there by the opponent.

And this would result increased chances for something to go wrong (things that our good for us re sacks, deflections, hard hits to cause fumbles, etc.). May not be a good long term strategy, but as you point out looking doubtful it's going to change with the personnel we're using now and unless they;'re going to put whigs, morgan, and others in in place of the current starters they'd best do something as after NW and now Clemson, as the thought comes to mind with all this that if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging!

 

[upperdeck]

from the 2nd thru the 3rd the game was pretty even. One great throw from a 14-14 game and they gave up a shot at a FG and we blew 2 chances. 4th quarter was a throw away for both teams.

The gifts are what killed us against NW and Clemson. Those teams are going to make plays like the Watkins bomb.. but thats like 6 TDs in those 2 games that had nothing to do with talent.

the first TD of the game we had man-man on the left side, when Watkins goes in motion the safety moved up when he curled back but the Corner thinks the safety is staying deep on the rcvr. is that good scheme or just bad communication. its happening too often so thats more on us than play calling.

 

[anomander]

from the 2nd thru the 3rd the game was pretty even. One great throw from a 14-14 game and they gave up a shot at a FG and we blew 2 chances. 4th quarter was a throw away for both teams.

The gifts are what killed us against NW and Clemson. Those teams are going to make plays like the Watkins bomb.. but thats like 6 TDs in those 2 games that had nothing to do with talent.

the first TD of the game we had man-man on the left side, when Watkins goes in motion the safety moved up when he curled back but the Corner thinks the safety is staying deep on the rcvr. is that good scheme or just bad communication. its happening too often so thats more on us than play calling.

The last paragraph is what worries me most. Anderson was leaving him off for a safety that was caught looking in. Who's responsibility is it? Or is it just a great call Morris knew he could exploit us? Same with the wheel route to humphries. Those both happened far too early in the game which leads me to believe Morriws knew he would have that whenever he wanted


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[Trueblue25]

Why has Dyshawn Davis been so quiet?

I expected this guy to be a defensive presence every game but I've only heard his name maybe three times all season. I expected him to step up. Anyone have some input?

 

[Ozcuse]

The last paragraph is what worries me most. Anderson was leaving him off for a safety that was caught looking in. Who's responsibility is it? Or is it just a great call Morris knew he could exploit us? Same with the wheel route to humphries. Those both happened far too early in the game which leads me to believe Morriws knew he would have that whenever he wanted


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I'm sure they saw it while breaking down film. So far only NW and Clemson have had the ability to exploit but I'm worried that Pitt, NCSt, WF, GT, FSU, UMD and BC now know what to do to beat us. Let's see if they make adjustments this Saturday. I really don't want to see ACC Qb's having career days against us anymore. :bang:

 

[RICuse44]

The last paragraph is what worries me most. Anderson was leaving him off for a safety that was caught looking in. Who's responsibility is it? Or is it just a great call Morris knew he could exploit us? Same with the wheel route to humphries. Those both happened far too early in the game which leads me to believe Morriws knew he would have that whenever he wanted


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I re-watched the first half and took from that Morris is a really good play caller. Love the way he uses motion to exploit mismatches. He will also motion from the slot to draw the LBs and DBs eyes left or right then run an inside zone. The wheel to Humphries was a nice touch. Cam has played well this year. Although he needs to work on his drops a little more he has been great as a blitzer- batted ball on Boyd he almost picks. Now if that turned into a pick or a pick 6 we would all be feeling differently today.

I agree with cuseregular. I felt a little better after watching it again. The blown coverages have to stop though. I think the talent is there to man up. Pro defenses have switched to mostly man at this point since a good QB can dissect the zone. It might be time to back off the attack blitzing defense when you are getting regularly toasted. Hmm... is there a newly available former defensive coordinator out there?

 

[AAM62]

Well, Whigham will certainly get his opportunities this season with Lyn out. Cant wait for Reddish to come back.

 

[anglerman]

Finally forced myself to watch the play back and took a few things away. Actually feel a bit worse now then I did after seeing it live.

Defense got gouged and couldn't believe some of the missed assignments. On 3 of those long tds it had nothin to do with physical talent, but more of defensive breakdowns. 3 of the long touchdowns were on miscommunications between our safeties and corners. Eskridge was a culprit twice, and the first td was on Wilkes. It seems like there is too much thinking going on and not enough reacting. Our DC definitely isn't putting them in positions to make plays.

On another td Cam Lynch was over matched in coverage. Wouldn't mind seeing Kirkland in during obvious passing downs.

Spruill played one of the best games of his career.

Their center dominated Raymond

Other then a bull rush our DE's don't have any pass rush moves

Whigham is a player. Needs to be in, but needs to cut the celebration stuff.

Same goes for Kelly and Morgan. Both were in much better position the entire game then Wilkes and eskridge

Chad Morris is an outstanding OC. They were definitely more talented, but he was toying with Bullough

Offensively I am a bit more worried. They seemed to know where we were going every play. They had 6-7 men around the ball almost every single play. Outstanding job by Vernables

Hunt will be good with experience . Game looked a little fast but he should be ok

Broyld is on the same level athletically as Clemson, but his hands hurt us at times.

West was actually open a couple times, once for a td if he was led. Didn't do as bad as originally thought.

Play calling was predictable

Smith is an NFL back. He needs 75% of carries

Good pass protection, but again struggled to get a consistent push on run plays. Foy is pretty good

Too predictable play calling. Our OC was also severely out matched

Finally we need to stop the celebratif and dancing. It was actually embarrassing watching that when we are down 4 tds. I am fine with the dancing when we come on the field, but really needs to be cut out you didn't see Clemaon doing that


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I saw 4 blown coverages that lead to TDs in the first half. To me that was the story of the whole game. It didn't happen in the second half and the scoring was very different Not sure you can place blame on the DC.

 

[anomander]

I re-watched the first half and took from that Morris is a really good play caller. Love the way he uses motion to exploit mismatches. He will also motion from the slot to draw the LBs and DBs eyes left or right then run an inside zone. The wheel to Humphries was a nice touch. Cam has played well this year. Although he needs to work on his drops a little more he has been great as a blitzer- batted ball on Boyd he almost picks. Now if that turned into a pick or a pick 6 we would all be feeling differently today.

I agree with cuseregular. I felt a little better after watching it again. The blown coverages have to stop though. I think the talent is there to man up. Pro defenses have switched to mostly man at this point since a good QB can dissect the zone. It might be time to back off the attack blitzing defense when you are getting regularly toasted. Hmm... is there a newly available former defensive coordinator out there?

Couldn't agree more, especially with the man coverage. There were times when we were in man when they still made some nice gains, but we were at least in position to make plays.

It's going to be very interesting to see what we do going forward. Leading up to the game I didn't like hearing how we wouldn't change things up because thst who we are. Maybe that's not who we are though? I just hope they can see this and make the appropriate adjustmets. The last thing I want to see is stubbornness. Good coaches play to their personnel, not the other way around.


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[NineOneSeven]

I fell asleep during the game because I took too many shots of fireball whiskey before the game. I'm not too upset about it.

 

[anomander]

I don't want to seem like I am picking on Eskridge either. That kid has all the physical tools to be an NFL caliber safety, he just seems to be struggling with the mental aspect right now. Is it him, or could it be made easier for him? Like I said earlier he is outstanding against the run. He made one play where he filled the whole and drilled the running back. I knew right there that is why he is giving all the chances in the world to get it together. He is by no means out matches physically against anyone, just needs to catch up with the mental part


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[RICuse44]

Couldn't agree more, especially with the man coverage. There were times when we were in man when they still made some nice gains, but we were at least in position to make plays.

It's going to be very interesting to see what we do going forward. Leading up to the game I didn't like hearing how we wouldn't change things up because thst who we are. Maybe that's not who we are though? I just hope they can see this and make the appropriate adjustmets. The last thing I want to see is stubbornness. Good coaches play to their personnel, not the other way around.


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Like the Watkins back shoulder catch on the 1 in front of Lynn? That was impressive. Moreso than torching Anderson for a 91 yard bomb. Watkins will make some money on Sundays.

 

[jekelish]

Regarding Morgan, with Lyn done for the year, any chance he gets worked back into the rotation at CB, anyone think?

 

[anomander]

Regarding Morgan, with Lyn done for the year, any chance he gets worked back into the rotation at CB, anyone think?

Maybe out of necessity but I think we are going to see a ton of Reddish, Anderson, Whigham. I think they keep Morgan there, or they burn Scissums redshirt, which is probably less likely


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[ForeverOrange]

I don't know which is worst, being out classed physically or mentally. I'm leaning toward mentally. I don't know if we will have the patience to sit here and watch the OC and DC learn on the job. It's painful to realize that we have to settle for "potential" instead of being able to go out and get some qualified coordinators.

 

[Orangello]

This is a darn good thread. Kudos. I like many others have stated, believe we have the horses to play in the secondary but we are not using personnel correctly and the scheme that is being implemented/forced is not working. I really hope to see some changes this weekend.

 

[sufandu]

3 of the long touchdowns were on miscommunications between our safeties and corners.
This is becoming a broken record and a bit concerning considering so much of our secondary is back from last year.
Other then a bull rush our DE's don't have any pass rush moves
Obvious lack of athleticism here. We need more speed bad
struggled to get a consistent push on run plays.
This seems to be an every game thing too. It's really concerning considering the lack of WR production