Great article on State of CBB by Seth Davis

[djcon57]

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/02/26/hoop-thoughts-college-basketball-scoring-pace

Don't agree with the statement that players are just is good...but beyond that, pretty much one point.

LOVED this one by Bilas:
“When you see film from the old days, and sadly my era is the old days, the game looks so much cleaner,” he says. “We watched video of the 1985 final game between Villanova and Georgetown, and there was not one charge/block play. Not one. People talk about Georgetown intimidating people, but they intimidated people by blocking their shots, stealing the ball and dunking on them, not by bodying up a post man and bumping a cutter, or grabbing cutters so you’re disrupting the timing of an offense. The way guys play today, they’d foul out in the first five minutes.”


Think of that! Not one charge/block play.

 

[SWC75]

You'll notice there is no three point line. Players aren't playing the jack it up or go to the basket game: vertical basketball. They are playing more horizontal basketball, work it around and look for an open shot wherever you can find it.

 

[kuethstheman]

Bilas is wrong about how Georgetown was, most of the time.

 

[Cusefan0307]

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/02/26/hoop-thoughts-college-basketball-scoring-pace

Don't agree with the statement that players are just is good...but beyond that, pretty much one point.

.

All the old generations say this about every sport...

 

[HoustonCuse]

Bilas is wrong about how Georgetown was, most of the time.

That's probably why they lost. If they tried to play a clean game for the first time ever in the National Final, you have to wonder what JT was thinking!

 

[djcon57]

All the old generations say this about every sport...

It's more the 1 and done rule than "Old Generations"

The players in the NBA are as good as ever.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Good article with some excellent points. However not to address the fact that Patrick Ewing, Ed Pinckney maybe even Reggie Williams in the current college/NBA atmosphere, wouldn't have been playing in that NCAA championship game but already drafted, is strange. How many 3 or 4 year players are drafted in the 1st round currently vs 30 years ago? Kids think that playing 3 or 4 years exposes their faults instead of promoting/improving their skills because of current NBA drafting trends. Why do they think that? Hard to ignore in the discussion.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I agree that the shot clock should be 30 seconds, but not because it'll improve scoring or whatever. It's just too long and lets teams just pound the ball into the hardwood. Teams are already starting to play at a slower pace than they were 10-15 years ago. Slash 5 seconds off that and hopefully flow/pace improves. This might improve scoring a bit, but it's not the root cause of the problems plaguing scoring, unfortunately. It's a band-aid for a broken leg.

The biggest issues with college hoops are the charge/blocking call, the increased reliance on the 3 and the overall decline in shooting ability. Kids are too busy trying to draw charges and tend to get the benefit of the doubt defensively. It's degraded the quality of the game and taken away the free-flowing, open nature of the game. Instead of playing D, you see guys simply trying to impede progress of the driver/ball handler hoping to draw contact. There should be a push to eliminate the charge/block, or at least, as Davis points out, increase the semi-circle in the paint. I'd say, at the very least, if a guy leaves his feet, the defender cannot take a charge. This would help open up the paint and driving lanes a bit, while also keeping in play the true charge where a guy barrels another over.

Davis points out how FT shooting hasn't declined, yet the graph he includes shows shooting overall has declined considerable. He says: "There is nothing wrong with the way college players shoot." WRONG!

While FT shooting has remained consistent, there has been a sizable decline in FG and 3pt FG shooting. FG shooting has gone from 47.3% in the late 80's to 43.1% this year, and 3 pt FG shooting had dropped from 38.4% to 34.2%. Those are significant dips. Shooting is a problem.

I think there has been an erosion of fundamentals coinciding with an increase in the reliance on jacking up 3 pointers. I'd be interested in seeing the number of 3's taken over the years. They say the mid-range J is a lost art. I bet the numbers would support that.

With the increased importance, reliance and now prevalence of the PG in the NBA, you'd have to imagine the game will be better as a result. I hope we see that same effect in the college game.

 

[Millhouse]

YouTube Video You'll notice there is no three point line. Players aren't playing the jack it up or go to the basket game: vertical basketball. They are playing more horizontal basketball, work it around and look for an open shot wherever you can find it.

i don't know what you're talking about with this vertical horizontal stuff

 

[NKR1978]

Everyone knows there are problems with the sport yet the NCAA and conferences do nothing with respect to how the game is officiated.

Block/charge is my biggest pet peeve with the shot clock a close second, but both would be moot of referees just called fouls.

Foul an Aaron craft our other defensive hack out in five minutes of play and the game will clean itself up.

 

[AZOrange]

I agree that the shot clock should be 30 seconds, but not because it'll improve scoring or whatever. It's just too long and lets teams just pound the ball into the hardwood. Teams are already starting to play at a slower pace than they were 10-15 years ago. Slash 5 seconds off that and hopefully flow/pace improves. This might improve scoring a bit, but it's not the root cause of the problems plaguing scoring, unfortunately. It's a band-aid for a broken leg. The biggest issues with college hoops are the charge/blocking call, the increased reliance on the 3 and the overall decline in shooting ability. Kids are too busy trying to draw charges and tend to get the benefit of the doubt defensively. It's degraded the quality of the game and taken away the free-flowing, open nature of the game. Instead of playing D, you see guys simply trying to impede progress of the driver/ball handler hoping to draw contact. There should be a push to eliminate the charge/block, or at least, as Davis points out, increase the semi-circle in the paint. I'd say, at the very least, if a guy leaves his feet, the defender cannot take a charge. This would help open up the paint and driving lanes a bit, while also keeping in play the true charge where a guy barrels another over. Davis points out how FT shooting hasn't declined, yet the graph he includes shows shooting overall has declined considerable. He says: "There is nothing wrong with the way college players shoot." WRONG! While FT shooting has remained consistent, there has been a sizable decline in FG and 3pt FG shooting. FG shooting has gone from 47.3% in the late 80's to 43.1% this year, and 3 pt FG shooting had dropped from 38.4% to 34.2%. Those are significant dips. Shooting is a problem. I think there has been an erosion of fundamentals coinciding with an increase in the reliance on jacking up 3 pointers. I'd be interested in seeing the number of 3's taken over the years. They say the mid-range J is a lost art. I bet the numbers would support that. With the increased importance, reliance and now prevalence of the PG in the NBA, you'd have to imagine the game will be better as a result. I hope we see that same effect in the college game.

I think a lot of the shooting woes arise from uncalled fouls.

 

[NKR1978]

I think a lot of the shooting woes arise from uncalled fouls.

Impossible to look fundamentally sound when you get the s*** beat out of you all game.

 

[Conrad13]

I think a lot of the shooting woes arise from uncalled fouls.

From what I can see, what constitutes a shooting foul hasn't changed much. It's the hand checking, Aaron Craft crap that has gotten out of control.

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/...ates-the-new-foul-rules-in-college-basketball

 

[Fly Rodder]

Davis points out how FT shooting hasn't declined, yet the graph he includes shows shooting overall has declined considerable. He says: "There is nothing wrong with the way college players shoot." WRONG!

While FT shooting has remained consistent, there has been a sizable decline in FG and 3pt FG shooting. FG shooting has gone from 47.3% in the late 80's to 43.1% this year, and 3 pt FG shooting had dropped from 38.4% to 34.2%. Those are significant dips. Shooting is a problem.

I think there has been an erosion of fundamentals coinciding with an increase in the reliance on jacking up 3 pointers. I'd be interested in seeing the number of 3's taken over the years. They say the mid-range J is a lost art. I bet the numbers would support that.

I don't see that at all in that graphic. 4.2% over 30 years isn't a significant dip.

If anything, I'd like to know what happened in 1994. Things declined until then and just sort of leveled out.

The one and done rule and kids leaving early having an impact on the game is overstated. I don't think 10-15 players a year have that great an impact on a game that employs more than 4,000 players.

 

[dasher]

I think scoring will go down with a shorter clock. these guys can't make a shot when you give them 35 seconds. They are somehow going to get a better look with less time?

 

[Knicks411]

I think scoring will go down with a shorter clock. these guys can't make a shot when you give them 35 seconds. They are somehow going to get a better look with less time?

It's possible that's the case to start, but then teams will also have to try and get into their offense earlier as opposed to just dribbling 40 feet from the bucket.

 

[realorange]

I think the players are just as good as freshmen. You just don't get to see them after 3-4 years to make a better comparison to the "old days".

 

[longtimefan]

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/02/26/hoop-thoughts-college-basketball-scoring-pace

Don't agree with the statement that players are just is good...but beyond that, pretty much one point.

LOVED this one by Bilas:
“When you see film from the old days, and sadly my era is the old days, the game looks so much cleaner,” he says. “We watched video of the 1985 final game between Villanova and Georgetown, and there was not one charge/block play. Not one. People talk about Georgetown intimidating people, but they intimidated people by blocking their shots, stealing the ball and dunking on them, not by bodying up a post man and bumping a cutter, or grabbing cutters so you’re disrupting the timing of an offense. The way guys play today, they’d foul out in the first five minutes.”


Think of that! Not one charge/block play.

Bilas must not remember how GT played defense vs. Mullin. The image of a ball bearing in a pinball machine comes to mind.

 

[ClamOtto]

Good article but his part about the refs not being a problem because they call the same number of fouls as ever seems to miss the point. If teams are playing more physical and fouling more than ever (cough*Pitt*cough) but the refs are still calling the same number of fouls (possibly because their mental models tell them how many fouls on average are appropriate), then the refs are part of the problem.

 

[Victory Lap]

Good article but his part about the refs not being a problem because they call the same number of fouls as ever seems to miss the point. If teams are playing more physical and fouling more than ever (cough*Pitt*cough) but the refs are still calling the same number of fouls (possibly because their mental models tell them how many fouls on average are appropriate), then the refs are part of the problem.

I had this same thought. The consistent number of fouls calls seems to be an adjustment by the referees to the players, not an adjustment by the players to the rules.

 

[Madbiker]

Good article but his part about the refs not being a problem because they call the same number of fouls as ever seems to miss the point. If teams are playing more physical and fouling more than ever (cough*Pitt*cough) but the refs are still calling the same number of fouls (possibly because their mental models tell them how many fouls on average are appropriate), then the refs are part of the problem.

The refs are exactly the problem. There is so much more grabbing, pushing, bodying of offensive players today and the fouls aren't called --which is incentive to do more grabbing, pushing, etc. And as far as Georgetown playing a clean game...where does he think the term "thug ball" originated?

 

[AZOrange]

From what I can see, what constitutes a shooting foul hasn't changed much. It's the hand checking, Aaron Craft crap that has gotten out of control. http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/...ates-the-new-foul-rules-in-college-basketball

the body blows in the paint are a problem and a few missed shots a game that should be FTs can explain that decline in percentage in addition to the grabbing that takes offense completely out of whack

 

[SBU72]

Bilas is wrong about how Georgetown was, most of the time.

I've mentioned before that I watched a game in Rochester when Ewing was a freshman against Niagara. There was a cutter running the baseline under the basket. Ewing, playing in a zone clotheslined the kid pure and simple. Wasn't an accident either. No foul called.

 

[Quazzum69]

How can the game take any more fouls? It is already too damn slow and bogged down by constant starting and stopping. Somehow, basketball has become the game for wimps that can't take a little slap on the wrist and need water breaks every 3 minutes.

Compared to all contact sports, basketball has the least tolerance for physical contact and, as a result, the most stoppages (except for football). Football, soccer, hockey, lacrosse, rugby all allow more contact yet are much cleaner and more fluid (expect for football). What other sport does 10-20% (just a guess) of your scoring come from "free" throws? Free as in free money for refs to rig games (seriously, we're talking about a point or two that could mean thousands of dollars).

And another thing: maybe most coaches are really not that smart (most of them seem to say a lot of dumb stuff). Maybe it's just a bunch of jocks (well, former jocks) just drawing up stuff on a board. Maybe that's why when a seemingly simple strategy like "pack-line" defense comes along, nobody can beat it because all the coaches are dummies.