Gross

[CU44SE]

I do thin

Why did you leave out the 250,000 plus in the Utica-Rome area ? That is less than 1 hour away from the Dome and has many great Cuse fans and alumni. It really diminishes an otherwise good post. Watch how many Utica fans show up for that Crunch/Comet hockey game in the Dome.

Good point, I edited it to include them. Im not sure how I forgot to mention them.

 

[Orangepace]

I surely hope Gross doesn't leave. The athletic department as a whole appears to be in much better shape than it was when he arrived. Granted, the spending sprees seem ludicrous on their face, however, I still think Jake C. is more to blame for that. He literally pulled money out of the AD for years when the program was successful instead of capitalizing on that success and reinvesting into the program, both through marketing or facilities upgrades. SU needed a "dreamer" when Gross arrived and by most accounts, he's delivered. I believe judging Gross based on solely the years he's been in the driver's seat is not fair. The SU brand, and as a piece of that the athletics notoriety, erosion began long before Gross arrived on campus.

I also don't like the constant negative posting about the NYC marketing campaign. The ONLY reason SU was such a quality candidate for the ACC or B1G was due to its proximity to the NYC market. Transplant the school, even given its history, into North Dakota and there are zero sh!ts given about luring SU to a major conference. While the campaign on its face may not be yielding results and there may be more intelligent/creative ways of marketing in NYC, I still believe to this day that SU needs to continue to attempt to elevate its presence in NYC for branding purposes. This not only impacts sports though. Elevating the awareness of SU in NYC also is important for academic reasons. It's the closest metropolitan area to the school and as such, very significant to students looking for jobs after graduation. Also, anyone trying to make the argument that marketing in NYC should lead to a significant increase in attendance is ignorant. The marketing campaign is about the brand and further the brand doesn't only relate to sports or attendance.

Btw... this attendance discussion is somewhat for the birds.. Should they and could they do more locally to promote the team, sure. I can't seem to find the 2013 attendance average, but in 2012 average attendance was 37,953 (http://www.nunesmagician.com/2012/1...-football-attendance-down-6-lowest-since-2008). I realize that represents tickets sold and not butts in seats, but data for the butts in seats isn't readily available. So in 2012, football game tickets sold represented 77% of capacity (49,262 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Dome). Just for giggles, I decided to look at the NFL team from a very popular blue collar city in the US for 2013. The Pittsburgh Steelers averaged home game attendance of 57,311 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance), or 87% of capacity. Over the last 10 seasons, Pittsburgh has been to the playoffs 5 times, including 2 superbowls, winning 1. Yet they can't fill the stadium. The Pittsburgh metropolitan area has 2.3 million souls, or 347% more than Syracuse metro area, yet cannot fill a stadium that has 25% more capacity. Additionally I assure you that they have a much larger marketing budget than SU. I know this isn't apples to apples, but what do I mean by all this?! I could probably write a dysertation on this which would have to delve much further into the statistical analysis, but I would generalize that blue-collar towns typically have a much harder time filling stadiums. I would further hypothesize that the only real way to fill these stadiums to capacity would be to demonstrate sustained success.

The momentum is building and significant improvements to the foundation have been made. There's still a ton of work to do, but the bus is moving in the right direction. I have confidence that Chancellor Syverud knows what he's doing and will continue to drive the Syracuse University brand forward. I sincerely hope that he and Gross can find a common ground and learn from each other, but not lose the vision of what needs to be done.

 

[Orangepace]

Look to me it's pretty simple regarding the NYC campaign. Why would you want to spend advertising money 270 miles away from campus? NYC doesn't care about Syracuse football. They have two NFL teams. They don't care much about college athletics period let alone a school 4-5 hour drive away.

It was far from genius it was more like stupidity. Spend the money within 2 hours of campus on people who might actually come to the games To me the athletic department has been a disorganized mess for years. I think replacing Gross can only be in the best interest of the university

This is far too short-sighted.

 

[CU44SE]

Nice post. I'd like to add the following:

1. What insiders have said it's looking more and more like Gross is gone? (Not being argumentative here; just need some clarification since this is the first time I've heard it other than a few off-hand references on this forum.)

2. I would add Scranton/Wilkes-Barre metro areas in your census table as well. Of the 563, 000 or so who live there, yes the majority are probably PSU/ND fans but stars from the area like Qadry Ismail and Gerry McNamara (among others) have heightened interest in SU sports over the years.

Iv seen it posted by a few posters that are respected over the past 2 months. Bee's also mentioned in a post the other day that this was the fourth different person to mention Gross was on his way out.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Sincere question... what does SU need to do to make a fan feel "appreciated"? I read this kind of complaint constantly, and I honestly have no idea what it means.

I grew up in Massachusetts in the 80s/90s and most of the ownership of the teams I followed were practically hostile towards their own fan base. The venues were lousy (Fenway Park was a cramped, aging and didn't have barely a dime invested in its maintenance after the mid-70s; Schaefer/Sullivan/Foxboro Stadium was a dump from the day it opened; the old Boston Garden was a hot, rat-infested hellhole), ticket prices were no bargain, parking and traffic was miserable, and the extent of "marketing" involved little free team schedule calendars at the local Stop & Shop.

SU football has not been a great product, so I don't lob jabs at the local fan base the way some here do. But tickets are dirt cheap, parking & traffic is really not bad if you have a perspective that extends beyond CNY, and there seems to have been some effort made to make the experience more family friendly.

I really would like to understand what SU needs to do to "appreciate" its football fans more.

The issue isnt making fans feel appreciated its making decisions that show that Syracuse has at least some respect for the local fanbase especially the diehards instead of making decisions that for the most part are the exact opposite of that.

Scheduling for the most part has been less then ideal with the top OOC game moved to Metlife the past two season and now this years game vs ND. The reasons for the Metlife series aside from the guaranteed money haven't proven to be true. There hasn't been some enormous increase in exposure or recruiting ability for Syracuse in NYC and there definitely hasn't been the turnout of alumni and NYC fans attending the game as many predicted there would be. I have been to all of the Metlife games so far but I am on the fence for the ND game and know many others who feel the same and are leaning toward not attending.

Tickets are dirt cheap for the most part so I have no qualms there but its been pointed out on thousands of occassions that the price points for the seating between the 20's/preferred sections needs a total revamp.

Parking and traffic while not an issue for those familiar with those issues for say an NFL game or other big time Div 1 team, is actually a huge issue for many of the fair weather fans who really only know Syracuse. The parking situation is a total nightmare compounded by the fact that the set up for Dome traffic would struggle to accomodate a Div 3 team less Syracuse. I personally dont have an issue with either because I have a parking pass and tailgate but trying to recruit new people to come to a football game always ends up with a 10 minute conversation trying to explain the parking options. People in today's day and age simply dont want to put up with the hassle of trying to get to the one public garage near the dome (if they even know its there) or parking at Skytop, its sad to say but honestly its the truth.

Syracuse also compounds the issue above by systematically removing prime tailgate and parking spaces. In the last 5 years we have lost one full lot and nearly half of another. I understand that the schools need to expand is a top priority but you have to leave some areas for parking passes and people who want to tailgate somewhere at least in the vacinity of the Dome. The West parking lots are pretty much the last bastion of near campus tailgating and its no surprise that all three lots are usually jammed full with people with an hour or so of kickoff. Its amazing to me that Syracuse cant figure out why attendance isn't where it should be yet they keep taking away one of there prime assets/tools to bring in more fans and keep the diehards happy.

There also a myriad of other issues Syracuse could do light years better in. Marketing/Advertising is absolutely awful and thats being kind. Also if you have to deal with SU for any sort of ticket, parking or Orange pack issue its a total crapshoot on how that conversation is going to go. Half the time it feels like your inconveniencing them when your trying to give them money.

Honestly the stuff above is just scratching the surface. The fact that the attendance hasn't completly bottomed out is a small miracle.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I surely hope Gross doesn't leave. The athletic department as a whole appears to be in much better shape than it was when he arrived. Granted, the spending sprees seem ludicrous on their face, however, I still think Jake C. is more to blame for that. He literally pulled money out of the AD for years when the program was successful instead of capitalizing on that success and reinvesting into the program, both through marketing or facilities upgrades. SU needed a "dreamer" when Gross arrived and by most accounts, he's delivered. I believe judging Gross based on solely the years he's been in the driver's seat is not fair. The SU brand, and as a piece of that the athletics notoriety, erosion began long before Gross arrived on campus.

That was a Buzz deal, not a Jake deal. It wasn't Jake's fault that SU bowl revenue was sent into the general fund.

Jake had plenty of dreams, too. What he didn't have was money in his budget.

And Buzz wouldn't open up the checkbook.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Thanks for the response, but I'm still not sure I follow. My point was that in the 80s/90s people in Mass. had a passion for these teams and largely showed up, despite the franchises being generally disinterested in making the "experience" humane, let alone enjoyable. There was no community outreach beyond what the Sox did for the Jimmy Fund.

What does SU do for outreach and community involvement that drives our stellar basketball attendance? Where's the amazing value add to those games? You say hoops sells itself, but I'd counter that's exactly what "sells" sports. SU football simply hasn't been that good for a decade now, no amount of marketing can put lipstick on a pig.

I'm not killing CNY for not attending football games better, because there's a case to be made that our on-field performance hasn't been good enough to warrant it. But I just don't see how giving away bobbleheads, or sending assistant coaches to yout sports events to glad-hand people, is going to meaningfully drive attendance.

It feels like demanding "appreciation" is just an excuse. I don't think you need an excuse, I'm a firm believer that crowds of 45K+ will return when the program starts winning consistently again like we did in the 90s.

I agree that it's an excuse and it's annoying to hear it time and time again. I've pleaded with many folks to come out and support the students win or lose, but many people want more-especially when the team isn't winning big.

My problem with not trying to market football is that not having the fan support impacts recruiting. We know recruiting is what wins games so not doing anything isn't going to get football back to 10-win seasons.

Since the on-field performance isn't there yet, other things need to be done. Now I like the notion of Next Fan Up and deals for teachers, etc. I think more can be done to convince the casual fan. When someone from the zoo or library shows up at my kid's school, it makes them want to go there. I see a direct impact for minor-league sports (which is what SU sports are) when there is community involvement.

 

[Full_Rebar]

The issue isnt making fans feel appreciated its making decisions that show that Syracuse has at least some respect for the local fanbase especially the diehards instead of making decisions that for the most part are the exact opposite of that.

Thanks for wording my thoughts in a much clearer manner. Completely agree with you.

 

[CU44SE]

I surely hope Gross doesn't leave. The athletic department as a whole appears to be in much better shape than it was when he arrived. Granted, the spending sprees seem ludicrous on their face, however, I still think Jake C. is more to blame for that. He literally pulled money out of the AD for years when the program was successful instead of capitalizing on that success and reinvesting into the program, both through marketing or facilities upgrades. SU needed a "dreamer" when Gross arrived and by most accounts, he's delivered. I believe judging Gross based on solely the years he's been in the driver's seat is not fair. The SU brand, and as a piece of that the athletics notoriety, erosion began long before Gross arrived on campus.

I also don't like the constant negative posting about the NYC marketing campaign. The ONLY reason SU was such a quality candidate for the ACC or B1G was due to its proximity to the NYC market. Transplant the school, even given its history, into North Dakota and there are zero sh!ts given about luring SU to a major conference. While the campaign on its face may not be yielding results and there may be more intelligent/creative ways of marketing in NYC, I still believe to this day that SU needs to continue to attempt to elevate its presence in NYC for branding purposes. This not only impacts sports though. Elevating the awareness of SU in NYC also is important for academic reasons. It's the closest metropolitan area to the school and as such, very significant to students looking for jobs after graduation. Also, anyone trying to make the argument that marketing in NYC should lead to a significant increase in attendance is ignorant. The marketing campaign is about the brand and further the brand doesn't only relate to sports or attendance.

Btw... this attendance discussion is somewhat for the birds.. Should they and could they do more locally to promote the team, sure. I can't seem to find the 2013 attendance average, but in 2012 average attendance was 37,953 (http://www.nunesmagician.com/2012/1...-football-attendance-down-6-lowest-since-2008). I realize that represents tickets sold and not butts in seats, but data for the butts in seats isn't readily available. So in 2012, football game tickets sold represented 77% of capacity (49,262 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Dome). Just for giggles, I decided to look at the NFL team from a very popular blue collar city in the US for 2013. The Pittsburgh Steelers averaged home game attendance of 57,311 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance), or 87% of capacity. Over the last 10 seasons, Pittsburgh has been to the playoffs 5 times, including 2 superbowls, winning 1. Yet they can't fill the stadium. The Pittsburgh metropolitan area has 2.3 million souls, or 347% more than Syracuse metro area, yet cannot fill a stadium that has 25% more capacity. Additionally I assure you that they have a much larger marketing budget than SU. I know this isn't apples to apples, but what do I mean by all this?! I could probably write a dysertation on this which would have to delve much further into the statistical analysis, but I would generalize that blue-collar towns typically have a much harder time filling stadiums. I would further hypothesize that the only real way to fill these stadiums to capacity would be to demonstrate sustained success.

The momentum is building and significant improvements to the foundation have been made. There's still a ton of work to do, but the bus is moving in the right direction. I have confidence that Chancellor Syverud knows what he's doing and will continue to drive the Syracuse University brand forward. I sincerely hope that he and Gross can find a common ground and learn from each other, but not lose the vision of what needs to be done.

My rebuttal would be ticket prices. Syracuse ticket prices are dirt cheap for a div 1 college team. NFL ticket prices are absurd. Your paying 70 dollars a ticket before they go on the secondary market and I don't know for certain but I would assume a lot of those empty seats came during the winter (cold) months when attendance decreases. Although they were technically in the hunt for playoffs, they needed a lot of help. So a team that for most of the year was out of contention, cold climate, and absurd prices I could see 87% capacity. Syracuse plays in a dome, tickets for 20 dollars, heck I got into a game last year for 10 dollars. The guy tried to give me 2 tickets for free cause no one wanted them but I demanded to pay him 10 a ticket. I understand your argument, people would rather sit in front of a 50 inch plasma on their couch and watch the game. And that is where the issue lies. The University somehow has to get the surrounding community involved in the game and make the game day experience an event. Make the fans want to come. Those population statistics says there are over 3,141,438 people within an hour drive of Syracuse (including Albany because they have no real sports affiliation even though 2 hours). With increased marketing, it should be easy to fill a 50,000 seat stadium. That is 1.6% of that population, I think that would be doable, but as many people have said before, even during the week of the Clemson game there was no marketing whatsoever. People that didn't follow like we do didn't even know Clemson was coming to town. Thats what I think needs to be changed, I love the NYC campaign but why can't we also have that campaign in and around the Syracuse market. Get casual fans to come to the games and become diehards like us.

 

[Scooch]

The issue isnt making fans feel appreciated its making decisions that show that Syracuse has at least some respect for the local fanbase especially the diehards instead of making decisions that for the most part are the exact opposite of that.

Scheduling for the most part has been less then ideal with the top OOC game moved to Metlife the past two season and now this years game vs ND. The reasons for the Metlife series aside from the guaranteed money haven't proven to be true. There hasn't been some enormous increase in exposure or recruiting ability for Syracuse in NYC and there definitely hasn't been the turnout of alumni and NYC fans attending the game as many predicted there would be. I have been to all of the Metlife games so far but I am on the fence for the ND game and know many others who feel the same and are leaning toward not attending.

Tickets are dirt cheap for the most part so I have no qualms there but its been pointed out on thousands of occassions that the price points for the seating between the 20's/preferred sections needs a total revamp.

Parking and traffic while not an issue for those familiar with those issues for say an NFL game or other big time Div 1 team, is actually a huge issue for many of the fair weather fans who really only know Syracuse. The parking situation is a total nightmare compounded by the fact that the set up for Dome traffic would struggle to accomodate a Div 3 team less Syracuse. I personally dont have an issue with either because I have a parking pass and tailgate but trying to recruit new people to come to a football game always ends up with a 10 minute conversation trying to explain the parking options. People in today's day and age simply dont want to put up with the hassle of trying to get to the one public garage near the dome (if they even know its there) or parking at Skytop, its sad to say but honestly its the truth.

Syracuse also compounds the issue above by systematically removing prime tailgate and parking spaces. In the last 5 years we have lost one full lot and nearly half of another. I understand that the schools need to expand is a top priority but you have to leave some areas for parking passes and people who want to tailgate somewhere at least in the vacinity of the Dome. The West parking lots are pretty much the last bastion of near campus tailgating and its no surprise that all three lots are usually jammed full with people with an hour or so of kickoff. Its amazing to me that Syracuse cant figure out why attendance isn't where it should be yet they keep taking away one of there prime assets/tools to bring in more fans and keep the diehards happy.

There also a myriad of other issues Syracuse could do light years better in. Marketing/Advertising is absolutely awful and thats being kind. Also if you have to deal with SU for any sort of ticket, parking or Orange pack issue its a total crapshoot on how that conversation is going to go. Half the time it feels like your inconveniencing them when your trying to give them money.

Honestly the stuff above is just scratching the surface. The fact that the attendance has completly bottomed out is a small miracle.

I'm not a local so I'm not in a position to argue with you on some of these points. But I will say that it's not like things like parking, marketing, etc. are magically better for SU hoops, and yet CNY packs the Dome for those games.

I really, really, really think people greatly over-analyze our football attendance. Last year we averaged 38K for six games at the Dome. In 1995, my first year as a season ticket holder, we averaged 43K. And we were a much better program in 1995.

We're talking about needing to get a few thousand more people per game back to get to a place where we were all much more comfortable with our attendance. This is not some kind of crazy, Herculean task. Have some compelling skill position players, win some games, and we'll be OK.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Thanks for the response, but I'm still not sure I follow. My point was that in the 80s/90s people in Mass. had a passion for these teams and largely showed up, despite the franchises being generally disinterested in making the "experience" humane, let alone enjoyable. There was no community outreach beyond what the Sox did for the Jimmy Fund.

What does SU do for outreach and community involvement that drives our stellar basketball attendance? Where's the amazing value add to those games? You say hoops sells itself, but I'd counter that's exactly what "sells" sports. SU football simply hasn't been that good for a decade now, no amount of marketing can put lipstick on a pig.

I'm not killing CNY for not attending football games better, because there's a case to be made that our on-field performance hasn't been good enough to warrant it. But I just don't see how giving away bobbleheads, or sending assistant coaches to yout sports events to glad-hand people, is going to meaningfully drive attendance.

It feels like demanding "appreciation" is just an excuse. I don't think you need an excuse, I'm a firm believer that crowds of 45K+ will return when the program starts winning consistently again like we did in the 90s.

Absolutely agree that if Syracuse starts winning consistently attendance will get back to the mid 40's regularly I think thats pretty much a guarantee. I think the issue is how does Syracuse draw that mid 40's crowd with a so-so team say 7-5 8-4 6-6.

The comparision to bball is apples and oranges, 25K is a good crowd for a bball game during the week and 31K is an enormous great crowd for a Sat game. Those same numbers would do jack for a football game save for maybe 31K for a total creampuff game. Football has to draw pretty much 20K additional fans then we do for basketball especially when many of the bball fans are the same ones attending the football games already.

 

[Scooch]

My rebuttal would be ticket prices. Syracuse ticket prices are dirt cheap for a div 1 college team. NFL ticket prices are absurd. Your paying 70 dollars a ticket before they go on the secondary market and I don't know for certain but I would assume a lot of those empty seats came during the winter (cold) months when attendance decreases. Although they were technically in the hunt for playoffs, they needed a lot of help. So a team that for most of the year was out of contention, cold climate, and absurd prices I could see 87% capacity. Syracuse plays in a dome, tickets for 20 dollars, heck I got into a game last year for 10 dollars. The guy tried to give me 2 tickets for free cause no one wanted them but I demanded to pay him 10 a ticket. I understand your argument, people would rather sit in front of a 50 inch plasma on their couch and watch the game. And that is where the issue lies. The University somehow has to get the surrounding community involved in the game and make the game day experience an event. Make the fans want to come. Those population statistics says there are over 3,141,438 people within an hour drive of Syracuse (including Albany because they have no real sports affiliation even though 2 hours). With increased marketing, it should be easy to fill a 50,000 seat stadium. That is 1.6% of that population, I think that would be doable, but as many people have said before, even during the week of the Clemson game there was no marketing whatsoever. People that didn't follow like we do didn't even know Clemson was coming to town. Thats what I think needs to be changed, I love the NYC campaign but why can't we also have that campaign in and around the Syracuse market. Get casual fans to come to the games and become diehards like us.

We drew 48K for Clemson. It was the best attended game in a decade. I'm not sure that's the example you want to use.

 

[chakka3421]

I agree that it's an excuse and it's annoying to hear it time and time again. I've pleaded with many folks to come out and support the students win or lose, but many people want more-especially when the team isn't winning big.

My problem with not trying to market football is that not having the fan support impacts recruiting. We know recruiting is what wins games so not doing anything isn't going to get football back to 10-win seasons.

Since the on-field performance isn't there yet, other things need to be done. Now I like the notion of Next Fan Up and deals for teachers, etc. I think more can be done to convince the casual fan. When someone from the zoo or library shows up at my kid's school, it makes them want to go there. I see a direct impact for minor-league sports (which is what SU sports are) when there is community involvement.

The real issue started with the hiring of Grob (remember Gross hired him). Those 4 dark years really killed the football program and set it back a decade. Secondly the problem with SU football is the lack of convenient pre game experience - like tailgating - so it's all dependent upon the viscous circle of winning and losing.

 

[JeremyCuse]

We drew 48K for Clemson. It was the best attended game in a decade. I'm not sure that's the example you want to use.

I also think that was the best marketed game Syracuse has done since the Mcnabb game. A huge effort was made by the University and a lot of the diehards to really pack the Dome. A game against a team like Clemson and this year FSU shouldn't be a real hard sell.

 

[Scooch]

Absolutely agree that if Syracuse starts winning consistently attendance will get back to the mid 40's regularly I think thats pretty much a guarantee. I think the issue is how does Syracuse draw that mid 40's crowd with a so-so team say 7-5 8-4 6-6.

The comparision to bball is apples and oranges, 25K is a good crowd for a bball game during the week and 31K is an enormous great crowd for a Sat game. Those same numbers would do jack for a football game save for maybe 31K for a total creampuff game. Football has to draw pretty much 20K additional fans then we do for basketball especially when many of the bball fans are the same ones attending the football games already.

To your first point: we don't. CNY has never supported 7 win teams with 45K fans. The area simply doesn't have that kind of passion for SU football. It's OK, people should just make their peace with that.

On the 2nd point: understood on the crowd differential, but also important to note that we play 17 or 18 home hoops games a year, and 6 home football games. So supply/demand should ensure that hoops is always smaller than football.

 

[Scooch]

For what it's worth, here is SU football attendance going back to 1964:

http://cuse.com/sports/2008/4/23/sufootballhomeattendance.aspx

The outlier years were clearly 1987-1999.

I've contended for a while that the Dome was a little overbuilt in terms of capacity. Should have been 44-46K.

 

[CU44SE]

We drew 48K for Clemson. It was the best attended game in a decade. I'm not sure that's the example you want to use.

I disagree, I think its the perfect example because it was the biggest game of the year and it should have sold itself. Up to a weak before the game there were only high 30,000 tickets sold. I kept reading on here that there was no radio promotions or anything for the game. I don't live in Syracuse anymore (buffalo now), so I couldn't tell you from first hand experience but all I kept reading was why hasn't their been a promotion yet, anyone hear any radio advertisements? It was our welcome to the ACC game and nothing, still only 30,000 tickets sold, and plenty of tickets left at the box office. Then Syracuse.com and nunes started running with trying to get a sellout and things started to pick up. If it wasn't for the last second deals at living social and the one at the credit unions for like 20 dollars a ticket for clemson, I don't think we would have broke 45,000. Not to mention the crowd Clemson brought which was probably a little over 3,000 fans.

 

[JeremyCuse]

To your first point: we don't. CNY has never supported 7 win teams with 45K fans. The area simply doesn't have that kind of passion for SU football. It's OK, people should just make their peace with that.

On the 2nd point: understood on the crowd differential, but also important to note that we play 17 or 18 home hoops games a year, and 6 home football games. So supply/demand should ensure that hoops is always smaller than football.

I agree that drawing 45K for a slightly above average team is unlikely in Syracuse. However, I think with the right combination of moves I think getting high 30's in actual buts in seats is doable. Small updates would go along away in helping attendance.

Hoops will always be smaller but Syracuse needs to do a better job of drawing attendance for football because bball can really only draw the low 30's at max due to the stadium set up and a lof of those fans are also football diehards who are already attending fball games.

 

[CU44SE]

People say winners bring fans, thats of course true for every team in America. If you win they will come, a winning team will never have empty seats. I get that, but were talking about 6 games a year with 50,000 seat capacity and over 3,000,000 people in your close vicinity. Were not asking to sell out a 100,000 seat stadium. Basketball sells itself because of their record, whereas the football team obviously doesn't. That doesnt mean things can't be done to increase participation. Increased marketing in this area that I have discussed will put the idea of Syracuse university events in their head. Think about billy fucillo, everyone thinks of him when they hear the word huge even if it has no correlation to cars or anything he does because its always on the radio, always playing. If Syracsue did this it would get people to say, oh lets take a trip to syracuse this weekend. Catch Destiny and watch the football team. After several experiences maybe this fan becomes less of a casual fan and more of a diehard. The more fun they have at the games, the more people will come back. They just need to promote as a whole. They promote the heck out of NYC, which I get and although some people don't like it i think its a great idea. But they also need to do this in the surrounding areas because this will get people that wouldn't usually root for syracuse to come out. Make an activity out of it, a bonding experience. People always comment how Syracuse lost a lot of fans when Shaw told them to get a life, but marketing would help to repair this situation. I just think people are always looking for something to do, and if you continue to inform them on Syracuse events then they will think and eventually come which will then spread. These people will tell there friends what a good time they had at the games, to which these people may make a trip up to experience what the friends experienced. I just think people need to be educated in a way. Yes winning helps, but it doesn't all have to be about winning. Its about creating a culture, and if everyone in these areas sees or hears about syracuse on a daily basis like people see in the city then I think it would help. It would create some kind of interest within people.

 

[Toga]

Chartered buses from Albany, Buffalo and maybe Binghamton, Rochester, Watertown, Utica. Hello? Why is this so hard?

 

[Scooch]

Chartered buses from Albany, Buffalo and maybe Binghamton, Rochester, Watertown, Utica. Hello? Why is this so hard?

Apparently people won't park at Skytop and take a 5 minute shuttle ride, but they're going to ride a bus 3-4 hours round trip?

 

[Toga]

Apparently people won't park at Skytop and take a 5 minute shuttle ride, but they're going to ride a bus 3-4 hours round trip?

Yes - because us out of towners hire people to rake our leaves.

 

[javadoc]

I don't necessarily disagree, but I also think this new chancellor is either not very knowledgeable about the athletics landscape or just isn't into it or both. I am afraid he will take the Shalala approach that now that we are in the ACC we are good to go and time to cut back.

I am starting to think we'll be Wake in a decade.

Cheers,
Neil

Well that is encouraging.

I don't see a reason why Gross has to be on the way out, if previous accounts about his contract are correct. It was said that he had incentives to boost our sports across the board, and that is why he spent more than would otherwise be expected on coaches in non-revenue sports. If that's what was in the contract, then I hope the new Chancellor doesn't blame him for it.

I would rather that he tell Gross that his contract needs to be renegotiated to "refocus priorities" and that it is not a request. If Gross won't, or simply isn't comfortable working under the new terms, then he can depart. But the focus should be football, basketball, and lacrosse, with enough funding to keep the other non-revenue sports modestly successful. There should be plenty of money with the new ACC distribution to do all that, and to pay the football coaches a fair market value.

And that's that. If we really are going to run the AD like a penny-pinching business, be honest about it. The sports that generate that revenue get the spoils, and everyone else is along for the ride.

 

[Scooch]

People say winners bring fans, thats of course true for every team in America. If you win they will come, a winning team will never have empty seats. I get that, but were talking about 6 games a year with 50,000 seat capacity and over 3,000,000 people in your close vicinity. Were not asking to sell out a 100,000 seat stadium. Basketball sells itself because of their record, whereas the football team obviously doesn't. That doesnt mean things can't be done to increase participation. Increased marketing in this area that I have discussed will put the idea of Syracuse university events in their head. Think about billy fucillo, everyone thinks of him when they hear the word huge even if it has no correlation to cars or anything he does because its always on the radio, always playing. If Syracsue did this it would get people to say, oh lets take a trip to syracuse this weekend. Catch Destiny and watch the football team. After several experiences maybe this fan becomes less of a casual fan and more of a diehard. The more fun they have at the games, the more people will come back. They just need to promote as a whole. They promote the heck out of NYC, which I get and although some people don't like it i think its a great idea. But they also need to do this in the surrounding areas because this will get people that wouldn't usually root for syracuse to come out. Make an activity out of it, a bonding experience. People always comment how Syracuse lost a lot of fans when Shaw told them to get a life, but marketing would help to repair this situation. I just think people are always looking for something to do, and if you continue to inform them on Syracuse events then they will think and eventually come which will then spread. These people will tell there friends what a good time they had at the games, to which these people may make a trip up to experience what the friends experienced. I just think people need to be educated in a way. Yes winning helps, but it doesn't all have to be about winning. Its about creating a culture, and if everyone in these areas sees or hears about syracuse on a daily basis like people see in the city then I think it would help. It would create some kind of interest within people.

You create a "culture" of passionate fans by winning. Not from marketing.

I'd like people to provide one example where a mediocre college or pro team generated large, sustained increases in attendance without meaningfully improving their on field or on court performance.

 

[GoSU96]

Sincere question... what does SU need to do to make a fan feel "appreciated"? I read this kind of complaint constantly, and I honestly have no idea what it means.

I grew up in Massachusetts in the 80s/90s and most of the ownership of the teams I followed were practically hostile towards their own fan base. The venues were lousy (Fenway Park was cramped, aging and didn't have barely a dime invested in its maintenance after the mid-70s; Schaefer/Sullivan/Foxboro Stadium was a dump from the day it opened; the old Boston Garden was a hot, rat-infested hellhole), ticket prices were no bargain, parking and traffic were miserable, and the extent of each team's "marketing" involved giving out free team schedule calendars at the local Stop & Shop.

SU football has not been a great product, so I don't lob jabs at the local fan base the way some here do. But tickets are dirt cheap, parking & traffic is really not bad if you have a perspective that extends beyond CNY, and there seems to have been some effort made to make the experience more family friendly.

I really would like to understand what SU needs to do to "appreciate" its football fans more.

Short of paying people to go to games, not much.