Guys, we have to remember that the last

[dasher]

17 years of torture isn't on this staff. They weren't around for the other blow outs. They weren't there for all of the futility. They inherited this team. A team that Scott was more than happy to recruit 2 start talent. He said it over and over again. We aren't looking for the 4 star kids, we want the 2 star kids that are over looked. And then he would recite the great 2 star kids we have put in the NFL. The problem was that for the most part, our kids were slower, smaller and not as good a player as the kids we were playing against. That isn't on this staff. Now, yesterday was on this staff. None of us were prepared for what we saw yesterday. Getting out scored 40-5 in the second half of a game that you just had a 17 pt lead, at home, against a team that is basically your equal is not acceptable. And none of us saw that coming. And that is why the reaction to that fiasco was so harsh. Understandable. I think we will beat B.C. and finish 1 win short at 5-7. 5 isn't 6 and that is a disappointment. We shouldn't have lost to MTSU. We drew a bad draw with at Miami as our crossover. Anyone else and we probably would have won. We also won two tight games as well with Pitt and Clemson. I like we are are in recruiting this cycle and hope, hope, hope that we finish strong. We have two 4 star O-linemen for this first time that I can ever remember. And I'm old. Things are never as good at your top, Clemson, and never as bad at your bottom, hopefully yesterday.

 

[Briancuse]

No it isn't on the staff, but this fanbase has endured a lot over those years, can't fault them for being upset at what looks like another bowless season.

 

[dasher]

No it isn't on the staff, but this fanbase has endured a lot over those years, can't fault them for being upset at what looks like another bowless season.

I'm upset as well. But it really is like blaming your current girlfriend for the things past girlfriends have done.

 

[cusefan88]

Truth be told my confidence in Dino Babers remains unshaken. I think the staff has made some poor in-game calls this year but it's a process and Cuse has been so bad, it's going to take awhile.

Imagine next season guys like Richards, Fagan, Melifonwu etc in the defense. The quality of recruit is clearly going up and we will see eventual dividends.

 

[Ish88888]

No it isn't on the staff, but this fanbase has endured a lot over those years, can't fault them for being upset at what looks like another bowless season.

That's right, you cant fault fans on this board for being upset we most likely aren't going bowling again. We all pour $$$, time and heart and soul into the program. We are passionate fans and it's part of the passion that fuels every fanbase. Thus, it should be ok to question coaching calls and preparation without being accused of hating on the staff. This game was on the staff yesterday, in terms of HT adjustments, you won't see a game where a staff lost like ours did yesterday. It doesnt mean they aren't right for the job. It means they were out coached. Remember, this staff is still adjusting to scheming and making in game calls on the P5 level, at the same rate some are waiting for the recruiting to catch up.

 

[tipphill]

No it isn't on the staff, but this fanbase has endured a lot over those years, can't fault them for being upset at what looks like another bowless season.

some of us were around for the 70's and 80's as well

 

[cuse309]

No it isn't on the staff, but this fanbase has endured a lot over those years, can't fault them for being upset at what looks like another bowless season.

Why? Who in their right mind, could look at the schedule before the season, and expect, that in year 2 of the rebuild, with players not recruited for the schemes that are being run, to win 6 games. Most people picked, and expected this team to win 4-5 games. Dino himself said it's likely that we improve as a team this year, but end up with the same record. I've been a die hard since the late 80's. I've endured as much losing as some, and much more than others, but I know that this thing will take time. I never expected 6 wins in year 2. I do expect 6+ wins next year though. As long as I see improvement from year to year, I'm happy.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think you've made a good post, Dasher. The thing is, I wonder if Babers is patient enough to understand that this is a two way street.

The fanbase has deep wounds, and days like yesterday really, really set things back. He can talk about needing the fans, but when we pisses one away like yesterday, it reopens those wounds.

 

[FAL]

Why? Who in their right mind, could look at the schedule before the season, and expect, that in year 2 of the rebuild, with players not recruited for the schemes that are being run, to win 6 games. Most people picked, and expected this team to win 4-5 games. Dino himself said it's likely that we improve as a team this year, but end up with the same record. I've been a die hard since the late 80's. I've endured as much losing as some, and much more than others, but I know that this thing will take time. I never expected 6 wins in year 2. I do expect 6+ wins next year though. As long as I see improvement from year to year, I'm happy.

I remember pre-season expectations were for a 2-10 season. Time to chill, folks...

 

[DeGrozz]

It will always amaze me that people are surprised that fans overreact after a bad loss (or multiple bad losses in a season).

We've been well below average for the last two decades. The only fans left of this program are the ones who care. Of course there will be emotional reactions when the players and coaches both have a sub-par game, especially when we know we should expect more of them.

Saturday sucked. People will express that. It's basically why internet message boards were created.

 

[rrlbees]

Saturday sucked. People will express that. It's basically why internet message boards were created.

Sports message boards were created for fans to discuss their team(s). But that doesn’t mean immature rants attacking players, coaches or each other. At least not this one. Usually it’s not what someone says but how they say it.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think you've made a good post, Dasher. The thing is, I wonder if Babers is patient enough to understand that this is a two way street.

The fanbase has deep wounds, and days like yesterday really, really set things back. He can talk about needing the fans, but when we pisses one away like yesterday, it reopens those wounds.

Right, that's my thought on this as well. Obviously still think Dino is the right guy, but man it's really tough as a diehard to go through this year after year. I can't even bring myself to try to convince people to go to games anymore. I've been doing it for 10+ years now and I've really run out of things to say. I just can't blame people if they'd rather spend their Saturdays doing something besides watching SU football win 2 to 6 games a year.

 

[SWC75]

With each new coaching staff we are starting over. Recruiting takes a hit and everybody has to learn a new system. That's why you need to avoid 'churning' the staff if you can.

 

[FrancoPizza]

imagine next season guys like Richards, Fagan, Melifonwu etc in the defense. The quality of recruit is clearly going up and we will see eventual dividends.

Come on. They are unknowns. It’s the backup QB mentality. We’ve been saying this every year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Come on. They are unknowns. It’s the backup QB mentality. We’ve been saying this every year.

If the players don't convince you, a critical difference is that this staff has a concrete plan on both sides of the ball, and they brought in players for those plans.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Have to just hang in there and keep current staff in place and continue to build and recruit. Syracuse needs to have stability at the helm, still two games left and a win at home versus BC would mean something to me even if it's for 5-7. Playing musical chairs even with staff members isn't a great idea, IMO.

I understand the frustration but the only way for a solid program is through stability with a competent head coach with a solid plan, which I firmly believe we now have in place. Every game is very important, every game regardless of current record.

 

[elimunelson]

next year's schedule isn't going to be a cake walk either. This is an excuse we have to stop making. We are in the ACC, it's always going to be tough. On the road vs BC/WF (our automatic wins this year) will be tough. At ND, At Clemson all tough games.

Just have to try and improve each year.

 

[SmilinBob]

In my lifetime SU has had two very long non losing streaks...with Ben and Mac/P. I'm getting ready for the next one with Babers starting in year 3.

 

[UelSU]

My pre-season prediction was 5-7. When we beat Clemson, I almost believed we would get to 6. MTSU is obviously going to be a dagger. I still think we have a chance at 5 wins, but I doubt we can win two in a row. I'm still all in with Babers, but I hate our defense.

 

[cusefan88]

Come on. They are unknowns. It’s the backup QB mentality. We’ve been saying this every year.

That's a totally fair point. My only counterpoint whether you choose to believe or not, is that the players on the whole have better offers than previous recruits. And the staff clearly has a plan.

I'm frustrated too, but this staff just feels different to me.

 

[SoBristol]

Babers & the staff are fine -- will get it done, over time. I was optimistic about bowl chances (depended on winning the home games, plus one upset), and it is a dose of ice cold water to see what happened with MTSU and Wake. I am also optimistic that the staff will finish strong and find jucos & transfers to fill some of the holes.

But I will add a pet peeve:
Enough of the excuse that the hold-over players don't fit the schemes. At this point it is about the quality and impact of the players Babers has brought in to aid & support the holdovers. Despite issues with Shafer's recruiting, he left Dungey, Phillips & Ishmael (the engines of this offense) and he left the core of the current defense -- enough to build around. And it is now about execution, game plans & play-calling to make the most of what Babers inherited and what he added. No more looking back.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Babers & the staff are fine -- will get it done, over time. I was optimistic about bowl chances (depended on winning the home games, plus one upset), and it is a dose of ice cold water to see what happened with MTSU and Wake. I am also optimistic that the staff will finish strong and find jucos & transfers to fill some of the holes.

But I will add a pet peeve:
Enough of the excuse that the hold-over players don't fit the schemes. At this point it is about the quality and impact of the players Babers has brought in to aid & support the holdovers. Despite issues with Shafer's recruiting, he left Dungey, Phillips & Ishmael (the engines of this offense) and he left the core of the current defense -- enough to build around. And it is now about execution, game plans & play-calling to make the most of what Babers inherited and what he added. No more looking back.

GROB left a few good pieces too. Blind squirrel nut type of thing. recruiting over a 3-4 year period is where a difference is made if the coach knows W..T...F They are doing. Coaches with no plan recruit a hodge podge of talent with no long term vision and they also switch scheme and staff too much looking to catch lightning in a bottle which is rare that it actually happens. Marrone's recruiting class his last year would have been his best yet and things were coming to fruition. There will be 3 star recruits that don't pan out and guys under the radar that turn into 3 year starters but when dealing with 20 kids or so a year, 3-4 hits does not a program build. It's about the depth. We don't need a roster full of NFL guys just guys recruited by Babers for his program.

And again, Dino's first real class was last year so they are true frosh right now. at best some of his guys are RD Frosh or true soph. Will take another two years to get the roster where it should be, DOES NOT MEAN THAT SFAER DIDNT LEAVE A FEW NICE PLAYERS!!! Takes time

I would think fans that have been around for 30-40 years would have this dialed in at this point and again progress isn't always 4 wins.. 6 wins. 8 wins.. 10 wins. Lets get real here but look at Wake??? Why is it that NC st and Wake seem to be trending in a positive matter right now? Stability and patience with a pretty good HC. I think our guys are better and I think long term you will see that.

Too much whining around here over dumb stuff.

 

[OttoMets]

I think you've made a good post, Dasher. The thing is, I wonder if Babers is patient enough to understand that this is a two way street.

The fanbase has deep wounds, and days like yesterday really, really set things back. He can talk about needing the fans, but when we pisses one away like yesterday, it reopens those wounds.

Exactly. Where did attendance end up on Saturday? Because from our seats it looked like pretty close to the Clemson crowd (minus the empty student section). Really impressive considering the dog of an opponent and the fact that we hadn't won a game in four weeks. And a lot of those people sure seemed bitter as the fourth quarter ticked away. The team really squandered some goodwill this weekend.

 

[djorange1989]

Babers & the staff are fine -- will get it done, over time. I was optimistic about bowl chances (depended on winning the home games, plus one upset), and it is a dose of ice cold water to see what happened with MTSU and Wake. I am also optimistic that the staff will finish strong and find jucos & transfers to fill some of the holes.

But I will add a pet peeve:
Enough of the excuse that the hold-over players don't fit the schemes. At this point it is about the quality and impact of the players Babers has brought in to aid & support the holdovers. Despite issues with Shafer's recruiting, he left Dungey, Phillips & Ishmael (the engines of this offense) and he left the core of the current defense -- enough to build around. And it is now about execution, game plans & play-calling to make the most of what Babers inherited and what he added. No more looking back.

he has had one full recruiting class, that won't help yet. And this isn't Boeheim and the hoops program, a half dozen good players leftover from Shafer doesn't get you far in football, particularly in a brutal conference for that matter. Bottom line is we are the least talented team in the entire ACC. Yes, less than BC, less than UVA, less than Duke, Wake etc.

 

[SoBristol]

he has had one full recruiting class, that won't help yet. And this isn't Boeheim and the hoops program, a half dozen good players leftover from Shafer doesn't get you far in football, particularly in a brutal conference for that matter. Bottom line is we are the least talented team in the entire ACC. Yes, less than BC, less than UVA, less than Duke, Wake etc.

My point above was not about overall roster quality or depth, but only the well-worn notion of "not fitting the schemes". Ishmael & Dungey fit a lot of schemes. Same with Slayton, Samuels, Bennett, Fredrick. We need more depth, another year of development for the OL, and man could we use a speed rusher at DE, a deep threat WR, and an ACC quality RB.

Babers has 8 players in his starting defense, 8 on offense including the significant skill players, who were inherited. For year 2 of a new coach taking over a struggling program, seems to me rather typical. Then, consider the quality of his 2016 class (rather good, and several played early, and seem promising), his 2017 class (incomplete -- but their contributions have been slim), his jucos (good), and grad transfers (good, but now injured).

This group competed against Pitt, Clemson, FSU and Miami, and the first half of the Wake game (35 points when led by Mahoney). So, that seemed like progress until 2H (and the absence of Dungey might have been telling).