If anyone is doubting Babers as THE guy...

[bigmike]

I like the idea of an extension. I like the message it would send to recruits, as well as folks recruiting against us.

 

[Orangepace]

Why wouldn't buying out 4 years on a remaining contract not be a risk? We couldn't afford to buy out 1 year of the Gerg.

Refer to this post -- Pay that man his money.

To boil it all down to:

• Extension - If the school shows its commitment, I'm willing to increase my donation to show my support. I'm certain that I'm not alone. The increase in donations should largely offset the downside risk of the hire failing.
• Defer - If the school does not show its commitment, I don't show mine. I will keep operating as usual and will still buy my season tickets and pay my preferred donation tied to that. But I won't be increasing my donations without the university showing me their commitment to restoring the program.

 

[Pyle]

I think the brightest forseable future is with Dino. Cuse has zero leverage, none, zip. I tend to be a realist and let's be honest. Syracuse is a bottom 10 p5 job. SU can't get out of its own way. When syracuse was good, we had an offensive system. It was the freeze option. We need a niche to win here. Babers provides that niche. I've seen a Drastic improvement from last year to this year. I don't give a crap what numbers say we were a lot better. I saw it with my own eyes. I'm sick of the revolving door of coaches at Syracuse. We need to give a coach time to get this done. Dino has been our best hire in the last 15 years and it's not even close. He knows how to recruit, how to win, has an offense that is picture perfect for the dome. Watching this team the last two years has been more fun than it has been for the last decade prior. Extending him now shows that the university is committed. Now some of you will say well we should have given HCSS another 2 years. That's BS, he was in over his head, settled for recruits and didn't have a plan. It was a garbage hire from a garbage AD. At some point this University needs to stop being so reactive and decide if it wants to put on it's big boy pants. For the love of god extend him for 2 more years. Believe in the vision that the man has outlined. Niche system is going to take years to implement. Rant over.

A couple of things here I'd like to address.

When Syracuse was good it just wasn't because of the freeze option. We also had some of the best QBs in our history, not to mention WRs.

Any P5 job, bottom 10 or not will attract any up and coming coach currently G5 or lower. It's pretty ridiculous to think somebody would stay in Toledo or Kalamazoo vs take this job.

Best hire? My hat goes to Marrone who turned a completely garbage team into a bowl team in 2 years.

Most fun? I had more fun watching Marrone go to bowl games than I do watching us get pasted against BC with a backup QB.

Whether I wanted to keep Shafer or not doesn't matter, he's gone and he was gone quick and alot of people think it was the right move. The issue is that people are so in love with Babers that they make excuses for him when those same excuses didn't fly for Shafer. Shafer played without his starting QB for 2 years and he still got fired. Heck in his last year we were down to Kimble. But because Dungey goes down, it's ok that Dino's teams completely fall apart. Except it's not.

We were better because you saw it with your own eyes? My eyes saw a team collapse again in Nov. My eyes saw starting QBs absolutely shed this defense. Backups not so much but starters kicked our ass for the most part.

I haven't said this before but I'm going to say it now. The team flat out quit on Babers this year. That BC debacle was one of the worst performances I've ever seen by an SU team. Kids didn't quit on Shafer or Marrone.

 

[orange79]

A couple of things here I'd like to address.

When Syracuse was good it just wasn't because of the freeze option. We also had some of the best QBs in our history, not to mention WRs.

Any P5 job, bottom 10 or not will attract any up and coming coach currently G5 or lower. It's pretty ridiculous to think somebody would stay in Toledo or Kalamazoo vs take this job.

Best hire? My hat goes to Marrone who turned a completely garbage team into a bowl team in 2 years.

Most fun? I had more fun watching Marrone go to bowl games than I do watching us get pasted against BC with a backup QB.

Whether I wanted to keep Shafer or not doesn't matter, he's gone and he was gone quick and alot of people think it was the right move. The issue is that people are so in love with Babers that they make excuses for him when those same excuses didn't fly for Shafer. Shafer played without his starting QB for 2 years and he still got fired. Heck in his last year we were down to Kimble. But because Dungey goes down, it's ok that Dino's teams completely fall apart. Except it's not.

We were better because you saw it with your own eyes? My eyes saw a team collapse again in Nov. My eyes saw starting QBs absolutely shed this defense. Backups not so much but starters kicked our ass for the most part.

I haven't said this before but I'm going to say it now. The team flat out quit on Babers this year. That BC debacle was one of the worst performances I've ever seen by an SU team. Kids didn't quit on Shafer or Marrone.

You never disappoint.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

You never disappoint.

And he makes good points.

 

[orange79]

And he makes good points.

Well, in your eyes.

 

[tbonezone]

I like the idea of NO extension. I like the message it would send to coaches , no improvement no peanuts.
play out your contract and then we'll sit down and talk man to man . do you want to stay or go ?

 

[TheCusian]

A couple of things here I'd like to address.

When Syracuse was good it just wasn't because of the freeze option. We also had some of the best QBs in our history, not to mention WRs.

Any P5 job, bottom 10 or not will attract any up and coming coach currently G5 or lower. It's pretty ridiculous to think somebody would stay in Toledo or Kalamazoo vs take this job.

Best hire? My hat goes to Marrone who turned a completely garbage team into a bowl team in 2 years.

Most fun? I had more fun watching Marrone go to bowl games than I do watching us get pasted against BC with a backup QB.

Whether I wanted to keep Shafer or not doesn't matter, he's gone and he was gone quick and alot of people think it was the right move. The issue is that people are so in love with Babers that they make excuses for him when those same excuses didn't fly for Shafer. Shafer played without his starting QB for 2 years and he still got fired. Heck in his last year we were down to Kimble. But because Dungey goes down, it's ok that Dino's teams completely fall apart. Except it's not.

We were better because you saw it with your own eyes? My eyes saw a team collapse again in Nov. My eyes saw starting QBs absolutely shed this defense. Backups not so much but starters kicked our ass for the most part.

I haven't said this before but I'm going to say it now. The team flat out quit on Babers this year. That BC debacle was one of the worst performances I've ever seen by an SU team. Kids didn't quit on Shafer or Marrone.

I dunno. Give me a home win over #2 reigning national champs (and likely headed back to the playoffs for the 3rd year in a row) over the WVU bowl win all day, every day.

The end of 2011 was rather brutal. Shafer’s 2 win season sucked too.

We get it - you don’t care for Babers.

 

[Rocco]

I like the idea of NO extension. I like the message it would send to coaches , no improvement no peanuts.
play out your contract and then we'll sit down and talk man to man . do you want to stay or go ?

And if it works out at the end of the contract, Syracuse has zero negotiating leverage. Some other school will offer $2-4 mil more per year than us.

No offense to Cuse, but not a hard decision if you're Dino.

 

[reedny]

I can’t imagine there are many doubting that he’s the guy. Those that do are either holding a grudge or probably hate everything about their life.

I’m starting to wonder about Brian Ward though. Dino replaced a DC once before, first year DC at Bowling Green before he brought in Ward for year 2. Ward isn’t playing with a full deck (personnel, not his brain), but still, these are defensive performances that are making all time lists in college football history. It’s not just regular bad.

I posted the same after MTS and again after Wake. Although I got flamed and my loyalty questioned, I chose not to watch the LV or BC games. After attending the Wake debacle, I felt our defense was no longer competitive. Hope drove me to check the scores, but unfortunately, we got drilled in both final contests. All the records set by our offensive players should be celebrated. Babers has brought better recruiting, energy and an offensive identity. I'm all in with him. But the bad defense against a MM and the historic numbers given up the last 3 games have left a bitter taste.

I'm left wondering what percentages to allocate to the likely causes:

- 70% personnel (talent deficit, injuries, etc);
- 10 % inherent limitations of the T2;
- 20% Ward not being creative enough with the personnel we have, blitzing packages, spying, shifting players to cover weak spots, etc..

 

[kcsu]

And if it works out at the end of the contract, Syracuse has zero negotiating leverage. Some other school will offer $2-4 mil more per year than us.

No offense to Cuse, but not a hard decision if you're Dino.

If Dino had won 7 this year with all of the openings odds are we would have lost him. So if you think he wins 7 next year this would be the year to renew. The decision is simple. Long term does SU have a better chance to improve the program with Dino or another coach.
If you feel strongly that the answer is Dino extend now. If you have doubts hold off. I have no doubts and would extend. So far Johnny Wild has held off so in spite of his public statements i believe he may his doubts.

 

[orangecuse]

And if it works out at the end of the contract, Syracuse has zero negotiating leverage. Some other school will offer $2-4 mil more per year than us.

No offense to Cuse, but not a hard decision if you're Dino.

Leverage is secondary to free will...

 

[JSOrange97]

If Dino had won 7 this year with all of the openings odds are we would have lost him. So if you think he wins 7 next year this would be the year to renew. The decision is simple. Long term does SU have a better chance to improve the program with Dino or another coach.
If you feel strongly that the answer is Dino extend now. If you have doubts hold off. I have no doubts and would extend. So far Johnny Wild has held off so in spite of his public statements i believe he may his doubts.

How do we know that Wildhack has held off? I've been wondering if he already got the extension but there's been no public release. As a private school, SU has no obligation to do so. I actually hope this is the case and we are all wasting our time debating.

As you can see I am all in on Babers. Not so much on Ward but I have faith the performance of the defense will be addressed and will begin to trend in the right direction.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

A couple of things here I'd like to address.

When Syracuse was good it just wasn't because of the freeze option. We also had some of the best QBs in our history, not to mention WRs.

Any P5 job, bottom 10 or not will attract any up and coming coach currently G5 or lower. It's pretty ridiculous to think somebody would stay in Toledo or Kalamazoo vs take this job.

Best hire? My hat goes to Marrone who turned a completely garbage team into a bowl team in 2 years.

Most fun? I had more fun watching Marrone go to bowl games than I do watching us get pasted against BC with a backup QB.

Whether I wanted to keep Shafer or not doesn't matter, he's gone and he was gone quick and alot of people think it was the right move. The issue is that people are so in love with Babers that they make excuses for him when those same excuses didn't fly for Shafer. Shafer played without his starting QB for 2 years and he still got fired. Heck in his last year we were down to Kimble. But because Dungey goes down, it's ok that Dino's teams completely fall apart. Except it's not.

We were better because you saw it with your own eyes? My eyes saw a team collapse again in Nov. My eyes saw starting QBs absolutely shed this defense. Backups not so much but starters kicked our ass for the most part.

I haven't said this before but I'm going to say it now. The team flat out quit on Babers this year. That BC debacle was one of the worst performances I've ever seen by an SU team. Kids didn't quit on Shafer or Marrone.

I want to like this post, but a few things keep me from doing so. First, Shafer's had this program heading backwards. Recruiting was lacking. The coaching was lacking. I think Lester was ok and was doing what he could with what he had, but the offensive philosophy was strange. Etc. I dont know how anyone cant find the energy, macro thinking, attitude, etc., of Babers a refreshing upgrade. Having said that, there are way too many people her that are conflating the results so far.

Also, i dont think the team quite on Babers. Both Shafer and Marrone had there fair share of stinkers. If you don't think those teams quit on Marrone, how do you just assume they quit on Babers. Babers' problem is he has no Plan B or curveball. That limits the team's ability to be competitive when playing under less than ideal conditions.

I think Marrone is the best x's and o's coach this program has had in my lifetime. What he did that last year was truly impressive. Best offense i have ever seen here. But from what i have heard, he was a cantankerous a-hole who didnt like the recruiting grind. That was always going to set a ceiling for him.

Babers on the other hand, is recruiting much better, and is installing a system and approach that has proven to make a lesser talented team a perennial winner in a big way. His ceiling is higher. But he is not the game coach or planner Marrone was. Marrone really needed some Babers in him, and Babers really needs a little of that Marrone cynicism.

I still have hope for Babers. If after year 4 we arent getting better results, I'd have no problem moving on from him.

I wouldnt extend him this year. I would remove barriers to his being successful. I'd pay his assistants more. I'd hire more recruiting and quality control staff. I'd get a nutritional program in place. After this season (2018) if he makes a bowl, he earns another three years, a pay increase, and the school gets a fatter buyout in exchange.

 

[kcsu]

I want to like this post, but a few things keep me from doing so. First, Shafer's had this program heading backwards. Recruiting was lacking. The coaching was lacking. I think Lester was ok and was doing what he could with what he had, but the offensive philosophy was strange. Etc. I dont know how anyone cant find the energy, macro thinking, attitude, etc., of Babers a refreshing upgrade. Having said that, there are way too many people her that are conflating the results so far.

Also, i dont think the team quite on Babers. Both Shafer and Marrone had there fair share of stinkers. If you don't think those teams quit on Marrone, how do you just assume they quit on Babers. Babers' problem is he has no Plan B or curveball. That limits the team's ability to be competitive when playing under less than ideal conditions.

I think Marrone is the best x's and o's coach this program has had in my lifetime. What he did that last year was truly impressive. Best offense i have ever seen here. But from what i have heard, he was a cantankerous a-hole who didnt like the recruiting grind. That was always going to set a ceiling for him.

Babers on the other hand, is recruiting much better, and is installing a system and approach that has proven to make a lesser talented team a perennial winner in a big way. His ceiling is higher. But he is not the game coach or planner Marrone was. Marrone really needed some Babers in him, and Babers really needs a little of that Marrone cynicism.

I still have hope for Babers. If after year 4 we arent getting better results, I'd have no problem moving on from him.

I wouldnt extend him this year. I would remove barriers to his being successful. I'd pay his assistants more. I'd hire more recruiting and quality control staff. I'd get a nutritional program in place. After this season (2018) if he makes a bowl, he earns another three years, a pay increase, and the school gets a fatter buyout in exchange.

I agree it would be nice to extend after success but i believe it will be too late.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I agree it would be nice to extend after success but i believe it will be too late.

I'm in the camp that when the big boys really come calling, it'll essentially be a fait accompli.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I'm in the camp that when the big boys really come calling, it'll essentially be a fait accompli.

I don't think he's going anywhere. First of all, at this point in time, no AD will risk their career by hiring a guy who has two 4 - 8 seasons under his belt at a P5 school. Can you imagine the uproar if an AD suggested that to his/her Board?

Second, he's heading toward the end of his career. If he rebuilds the program, he enjoys some great seasons, many accolades, and goes out a much loved coach as did Coach Mac.

Third, he's moved around a lot and seems to like Syracuse.

 

[kcsu]

I don't think he's going anywhere. First of all, at this point in time, no AD will risk their career by hiring a guy who has two 4 - 8 seasons under his belt at a P5 school. Can you imagine the uproar if an AD suggested that to his/her Board?

Second, he's heading toward the end of his career. If he rebuilds the program, he enjoys some great seasons, many accolades, and goes out a much loved coach as did Coach Mac.

Third, he's moved around a lot and seems to like Syracuse.

No idea just believe that he will be successful next year and will be gone if we dont step up now.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

No idea just believe that he will be successful next year and will be gone if we dont step up now.

That's just faith without evidence. Next year's schedule is just as tough as this year's. I see two maybe 3 wins before they go into the brutal ACC. No clue how that will go.

I can't imagine Wildhack having to go his board and say we should extend him based on....nothing.

I never got a raise for just showing up.

 

[VirginiaOrange]

Matt Lauer has a better chance of getting a job interview with CBS than Dino has of landing any of the "big boy" dream jobs.

 

[orange79]

That's just faith without evidence. Next year's schedule is just as tough as this year's. I see two maybe 3 wins before they go into the brutal ACC. No clue how that will go.

I can't imagine Wildhack having to go his board and say we should extend him based on...nothing.

I never got a raise for just showing up.

We trade Miami for UNC, and OOC:
WMU, Wagner, UConn, ND vs. CCSU, MTSU, CMU, @LSU
BC, Clemson, Pitt, Wake all away.

There's nothing about that schedule that says Top 10 SOS, as this year's schedule was. Is it tough? Sure. Is it as tough as this year? I don't think so.

 

[tbonezone]

No idea just believe that he will be successful next year and will be gone if we dont step up now.

you base all your important life decisions on "hunches" or do you like to sit down and study real hard facts ?