Is it Time...

[PoppyHart]

And exactly which final four that we were in did you see? Thought so!

2003. At least that's what my bookie tells me.

 

[Gatekeeper]

You really believe that?

Yes I do. I don't think his game is ready or more importantly, not strong enough, can not create his own shot and can not shoot. All thing I think he will gain with another year. When he goes and talks to JB at the end I think JB will tell him he isn't ready. JB will be truthful as he always is. I just don't see it.

 

[44cuse]

I'd say so when he only plays 20 minutes a game. With Ricky's stats that's a quarter of our shots for the year.

Actually, it's not. Because collectively they gathered 45% of the teams offensive rebounds which lead to put backs and make up a significant portion of their shot attempts. It's about the % of those shots that came from a post entry pass. I don't have an easy way to see what % of shots came from OREB's yet, but it's something to work on. It just takes a lot of time because you have to map the shot charts of each player to their attempts by game.

Also, it's not the best argument you could be making for your point. RJ is a much better argument than AO. RJ had a far higher assist % contribution which more strongly supports the ball moving through the post as a part of the offense (if someone were to make that point). And none of this really matters anyway to the original comment because it's about post passing and entry passing which has never been good. But this is still an interesting argument.

AO was responsible for 3% and 2% of SU's assists in 08-09 and 09-10.

RJ was responsible for 9% and 13% of SU's assists in 09-10 and 10-11.

In 09-10, they each accounted for 22% of SU's offensive rebounds (RJ was 27% in 10-11).

Compare these #'s to a team like Georgetown with Greg Monroe who was responsible for 18% and 24% of his teams assists. AO played 200 more minutes in his FR year than GM did in either of his two seasons at Georgetown. Same with RJ. The point here is that an offense that goes through the post relies on a big man with very good passing skills. This argument was had on the board about a month back and this just isn't anything that is taught in the high school or AAU levels anymore because no kid wants to practice it. They want to be either Dirk Nowitzki or Dante Green (ok maybe a poor attempt at humor) but I think you get the point.

We aren;t a post oriented offense and haven't been for the 30 years or so I have been watching SU hoops (that I can recall). We recruit defensive minded centers who can take up the middle of the zone and crash the offensive boards. The origination of our offense comes from athletic guards and forwards who can drive, slash and dish as opposed to feed the post. It's just not what we do.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

Our offensive ineptitude of late has to fall at least in part on JB.

Has anyone here said it shouldn't fall in part on him? That would make as little sense as those who say he should be gone.

44cuse

 

[Dave]

for Boeheim to retire? Always arguing with media and now being out coached more than ever. That one bad half comment is a classic...

Don't have a good feeling about hoops on the hill recently.

It is hard to believe that your overall perspective is anything but comparatively recent. JB's retirement will give rise to huge, concerning questions about the future of the program. This is a bad stretch of basketball. We've been through them in the past. These stretches happen with far fewer frequency than virtually anywhere else. One of the fascinating things about this game we love is the constant changes in team chemistry in a sport where chemistry matters. Kids grow and mature and go through changes in confidence and then leave. Some disappoint. Some exceed expectations. They play with other kids who are going through the same things. To expect what we have come to expect requires someone extraordinary at the helm. Maybe Hop is extraordinary. Maybe he is not. I am happy to wait (and wait) to find out. Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles, cabbage patch Dolls, hula hoops...run with the fads for those things. Leave our HOF coach alone. If information developes over a significant period of time to suggest an inability to adapt to different circumstances, so be it. "Outcoached more than ever"! I don't even know how to respond to that.

 

[44cuse]

I am happy to wait (and wait) to find out. Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles, cabbage patch Dolls, hula hoops...run with the fads for those things. Leave our HOF coach alone. If information developes over a significant period of time to suggest an inability to adapt to different circumstances, so be it. "Outcoached more than ever"! I don't even know how to respond to that.

These are people who are reacting to a small sample set. Good post. You don;t have to agree with everything JB does. I don't. But that doesn't mean he should be gone.

As someone pointed out yesterday, having James on the court at the end of the half with 2 fouls and grant on the bench with none for that last position...some would consider that a miss. To be fair...that's goes on the assistants in most programs.

44cuse

 

[Hoov50]

IMO:

The game doesn't pass someone by in a single offseason. Last year if we don't lose Melo we, at very least, make the national title game. The game has passed him by since then? What a joke!

He has earned the right to determine when he retires.

Coaches can only do so much. At some point the players have to make the plays. One of the football teams I coached were the worst tacklers in the world. We worked, literally, every single day on tackling technique. It didn't translate to the games and as much as I wanted to go out on the field and tackle for them I couldn't, it would have been a penalty.

 

[kcsu]

This is one of the worst post ever. JB will retire when he wants and on his terms. Not because he has earned it which he has but because he is still one of the best coaches in the game. The fact that BT and MCW have gone in the tank isnt JBs fault. BT has never been consistant and MCW has no outside game at all. Any other coach would have twice as many loses with this talent if not more

 

[lincolncuse]

Actually, it's not. Because collectively they gathered 45% of the teams offensive rebounds which lead to put backs and make up a significant portion of their shot attempts. It's about the % of those shots that came from a post entry pass. I don't have an easy way to see what % of shots came from OREB's yet, but it's something to work on. It just takes a lot of time because you have to map the shot charts of each player to their attempts by game.

Also, it's not the best argument you could be making for your point. RJ is a much better argument than AO. RJ had a far higher assist % contribution which more strongly supports the ball moving through the post as a part of the offense (if someone were to make that point). And none of this really matters anyway to the original comment because it's about post passing and entry passing which has never been good. But this is still an interesting argument.

AO was responsible for 3% and 2% of SU's assists in 08-09 and 09-10.

RJ was responsible for 9% and 13% of SU's assists in 09-10 and 10-11.

In 09-10, they each accounted for 22% of SU's offensive rebounds (RJ was 27% in 10-11).

Compare these #'s to a team like Georgetown with Greg Monroe who was responsible for 18% and 24% of his teams assists. AO played 200 more minutes in his FR year than GM did in either of his two seasons at Georgetown. Same with RJ. The point here is that an offense that goes through the post relies on a big man with very good passing skills. This argument was had on the board about a month back and this just isn't anything that is taught in the high school or AAU levels anymore because no kid wants to practice it. They want to be either Dirk Nowitzki or Dante Green (ok maybe a poor attempt at humor) but I think you get the point.

We aren;t a post oriented offense and haven't been for the 30 years or so I have been watching SU hoops (that I can recall). We recruit defensive minded centers who can take up the middle of the zone and crash the offensive boards. The origination of our offense comes from athletic guards and forwards who can drive, slash and dish as opposed to feed the post. It's just not what we do.

44cuse

Good post appreciate your insight here.

 

[Toronto Cuse]

To borrow a line from the Harbaugh's. "Who's got it better than us? Nobody"

I hope he stays 20 more years.

Not sure someone who is a 2nd string poster on Syracusefan.com would have a clue when the game has passed someone by...

Curious, what was the final data point that made you think "it's over. Coach Boeheim is no longer a good coach"?

10 years ago he was at the pinnacle of his profession (National Champs). Since we have gone 259-81. 115-54 in the Big East Reg Season. Won 2 Big East Tournaments. Been the #1 team in America and a #1 seed in the tourney twice. Have finished in the top 3 of the toughest conference 5 of 9 years. Sent 10 players to the NBA. Where do I sign up for the next 10 years?

We have lost three in a row. All to top 25 teams. We have made 68-161 shots in those losses. That's the data point that matters. It's not poor substitutions. It's not a poor game plan. It's not in game adjustments. We have a hall of fame coach. We are going to be prepared. We are going to start making shots. We are going to turn it around.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

2003. At least that's what my bookie tells me.

Damn... I hope you made a bundle.

 

[TBCuse11]

Was the game passing him by just last year? In case you forgot, we were a school best 34-3. Really stupid post.

So basically you are saying that Boeheim succeeds when he has 3 NBA draft picks and a senior PG running the show... I guess that proves my point more than anything. Kudos to Jim i guess for winning with an NBA roster. I thought coaching involved getting the most out of players.

if anyone argues that he has done that this year, then there is no point even discussing any further...

 

[TBCuse11]

To borrow a line from the Harbaugh's. "Who's got it better than us? Nobody"

I hope he stays 20 more years.

Not sure someone who is a 2nd string poster on Syracusefan.com would have a clue when the game has passed someone by...

Curious, what was the final data point that made you think "it's over. Coach Boeheim is no longer a good coach"?

10 years ago he was at the pinnacle of his profession (National Champs). Since we have gone 259-81. 115-54 in the Big East Reg Season. Won 2 Big East Tournaments. Been the #1 team in America and a #1 seed in the tourney twice. Have finished in the top 3 of the toughest conference 5 of 9 years. Sent 10 players to the NBA. Where do I sign up for the next 10 years?

We have lost three in a row. All to top 25 teams. We have made 68-161 shots in those losses. That's the data point that matters. It's not poor substitutions. It's not a poor game plan. It's not in game adjustments. We have a hall of fame coach. We are going to be prepared. We are going to start making shots. We are going to turn it around.

Some of the arrogance on this board is crazy. I dont need to post my credentials, but rest assured i have been very close to the program for many years. If you think Jim is still coaching at a high level, more power to you... he isnt though. Even Hall of Famers lose their edge near the end of the road. We have lost six out of ten, and have multiple losses to unranked teams this year. Jim has failed to adjust on multiple occasions and has left players out there who are killing the team. It is his right, he has earned it... but its time to start transitioning to the future.

Yes, we were great last year... and? We had three NBA draft picks and a senior PG. That team was loaded.

To each his own i guess. Still love this website...

 

[TBCuse11]

This is one of the worst post ever. JB will retire when he wants and on his terms. Not because he has earned it which he has but because he is still one of the best coaches in the game. The fact that BT and MCW have gone in the tank isnt JBs fault. BT has never been consistant and MCW has no outside game at all. Any other coach would have twice as many loses with this talent if not more

Twice as many losses means we would not even make the NIT. There is not one coach in america that would miss the Big Dance with our roster. None.

 

[Toronto Cuse]

To borrow a line from the Harbaugh's. "Who's got it better than us? Nobody"

I hope he stays 20 more years.

Not sure someone who is a 2nd string poster on Syracusefan.com would have a clue when the game has passed someone by...

Curious, what was the final data point that made you think "it's over. Coach Boeheim is no longer a good coach"?

10 years ago he was at the pinnacle of his profession (National Champs). Since we have gone 259-81. 115-54 in the Big East Reg Season. Won 2 Big East Tournaments. Been the #1 team in America and a #1 seed in the tourney twice. Have finished in the top 3 of the toughest conference 5 of 9 years. Sent 10 players to the NBA. Where do I sign up for the next 10 years?

We have lost three in a row. All to top 25 teams. We have made 68-161 shots in those losses. That's the data point that matters. It's not poor substitutions. It's not a poor game plan. It's not in game adjustments. We have a hall of fame coach. We are going to be prepared. We are going to start making shots. We are going to turn it around.

WHAT A STUPID THREAD !! Made this reply after we got crushed by the Hoyas in the Verizon Center. All I can say is... ANOTHER ELITE 8 !!!! Can we please get all the names down of people who claimed the game had passed Coach Boeheim by and ban them from posting. #lunacy

 

[SWC75]

Asked and answered.