is the senior bowl a giant waste of time?

[Millhouse]

I imagine that back in the day there was just too much film to sift through - it was probably less costly to just fly guys out and do all your observing in a week

now that every game is on tv and is so easy to cut up, what's the point?

i just saw some todd mcshay tweet "Nassib's arm vastly overrated. Short/intermediate throws MPHs but struggles driving ball vertically on tape and see same at Senior Bowl."

insert neil armstrong moon animated gif here

seems crazy to judge guys in a week learning some dumbed down offense when it's so easy to watch tape

 

[Libero2]

It's done to put the players on a similar plane of competition. Now we get to see the best go against the best, no longer are scouts trying to compare the BE defenses that Nassib competed against to the SEC defenses Tyler Wilson competed against. It also gives guys who play at super small schools a chance to shine against the big boys of the SEC.

It's just another evaluation tool. Ultimately the seasons tape is more important, but it helps to evaluate people. A scout might see something they didn't previously, and they have to go back to the tape to determine why it as missed previously. It also gives scouting teams a chance to evaluate and interview every player at the game that's a huge reason why teams go.

 

[Millhouse]

It's done to put the players on a similar plane of competition. Now we get to see the best go against the best, no longer are scouts trying to compare the BE defenses that Nassib competed against to the SEC defenses Tyler Wilson competed against. It also gives guys who play at super small schools a chance to shine against the big boys of the SEC.

It's just another evaluation tool. Ultimately the seasons tape is more important, but it helps to evaluate people. A scout might see something they didn't previously, and they have to go back to the tape to determine why it as missed previously. It also gives scouting teams a chance to evaluate and interview every player at the game that's a huge reason why teams go.

the downside from my perspective (guy whose favorite NFL team has complete idiots for scouts and management) is that it allows these idiots to talk themselves into guys who have proven they aren't any good.

this how teams talk themselves into mike glennon. much like chip but in a much less disgusting way, they get a glimpse of big hands and their imaginations run wild

if glennon goes ahead of where russell wilson went, i'm going to crack up.

 

[SmilinBob]

They really struggle with the Achilles Smith (Oregon) type guys that just start for one year or so and this game helps bring it together for them. Of course, they made a huge mistake with Smith so it does seem they do fall in love with some of the perceived strengths of certain players.

 

[Libero2]

the downside from my perspective (guy whose favorite NFL team has complete idiots for scouts and management) is that it allows these idiots to talk themselves into guys who have proven they aren't any good.

this how teams talk themselves into mike glennon. much like chip but in a much less disgusting way, they get a glimpse of big hands and their imaginations run wild

if glennon goes ahead of where russell wilson went, i'm going to crack up.

Just because certain teams fail to properly evaluate players, doesn't mean the process is flawed, it just means they were wrong.

 

[upperdeck]

what is mcshay background that makes him a fball expert? a HS Qb that got a job with a failed scout and now he can judge kids?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

There's another advantage to this. Film will demonstrate the physical attributes, but throwing these guys together provides a way to examine how a player will adjust to a new team dynamic and how they settle into the role that fits them. The leaders become apparent pretty quickly. So do the outcasts and the chemistry guys.

 

[Millhouse]

There's another advantage to this. Film will demonstrate the physical attributes, but throwing these guys together provides a way to examine how a player will adjust to a new team dynamic and how they settle into the role that fits them. The leaders become apparent pretty quickly. So do the outcasts and the chemistry guys.

that can just be another way to talk yourself into guys that aren't any good.

i'd rather just go by numbers and assume the numbers wouldn't be that good if they're d!ckheads or outcasts

not perfect but i think they make more mistakes discounting college games than they do by just looking at the games and nothing else

 

[OttoinGrotto]

that can just be another way to talk yourself into guys that aren't any good.

i'd rather just go by numbers and assume the numbers wouldn't be that good if they're d!ckheads or outcasts

not perfect but i think they make more mistakes discounting college games than they do by just looking at the games and nothing else

Well, determining how well they use the info provided is a different question altogether.

I don't think it's a good idea to discount having more information because someone's too stupid to make the right choice.

I do agree that in general guys reveal at some point at a lower level if they can play, and for whatever reason scouts minimize that.

 

[Millhouse]

Well, determining how well they use the info provided is a different question altogether.

I don't think it's a good idea to discount having more information because someone's too stupid to make the right choice.

I do agree that in general guys reveal at some point at a lower level if they can play, and for whatever reason scouts minimize that.

some people stay away from places where they make bad decisions. bars, casinos, in chip's case, bathhouses. i think teams should stay the hell away

 

[steve deberg]

The Senior Bowl also gives two of the leagues weaker teams, in this case Detroit and Oakland, a chance to coach these guys up in a team practice setting before drafting them. I realize teams get to bring in a set amount of guys for personal workouts prior to the draft, but this week is undoubtably more valuable than only having those personal workouts.

 

[retro44]

I imagine that back in the day there was just too much film to sift through - it was probably less costly to just fly guys out and do all your observing in a week

now that every game is on tv and is so easy to cut up, what's the point?

i just saw some todd mcshay tweet "Nassib's arm vastly overrated. Short/intermediate throws MPHs but struggles driving ball vertically on tape and see same at Senior Bowl."

insert neil armstrong moon animated gif here

seems crazy to judge guys in a week learning some dumbed down offense when it's so easy to watch tape

only if you watch it

 

[007]

I imagine that back in the day there was just too much film to sift through - it was probably less costly to just fly guys out and do all your observing in a week

now that every game is on tv and is so easy to cut up, what's the point?

i just saw some todd mcshay tweet "Nassib's arm vastly overrated. Short/intermediate throws MPHs but struggles driving ball vertically on tape and see same at Senior Bowl."

insert neil armstrong moon animated gif here

seems crazy to judge guys in a week learning some dumbed down offense when it's so easy to watch tape

The event is very much valued by the NFL, especially the scouting that happens during the practices and drills leading up to the game. The talent factor is somewhat controlled; for example watching how all the LTs perform against a particularly DE in 1:1 drills and so on. The game itself is secondary. Maybe that was your point?

 

[jvbj01]

I imagine that back in the day there was just too much film to sift through - it was probably less costly to just fly guys out and do all your observing in a week

now that every game is on tv and is so easy to cut up, what's the point?

i just saw some todd mcshay tweet "Nassib's arm vastly overrated. Short/intermediate throws MPHs but struggles driving ball vertically on tape and see same at Senior Bowl."

insert neil armstrong moon animated gif here

seems crazy to judge guys in a week learning some dumbed down offense when it's so easy to watch tape

NFL Execs wouldn't show up if it was a waste of time.

 

[liljoe]

I imagine that back in the day there was just too much film to sift through - it was probably less costly to just fly guys out and do all your observing in a week

now that every game is on tv and is so easy to cut up, what's the point?

i just saw some todd mcshay tweet "Nassib's arm vastly overrated. Short/intermediate throws MPHs but struggles driving ball vertically on tape and see same at Senior Bowl."

insert neil armstrong moon animated gif here

seems crazy to judge guys in a week learning some dumbed down offense when it's so easy to watch tape

It's funny, I feel the exact same way about my secret rendezvous with your mom. At this point, it's just easier and cheaper to go back and watch the tapes...

 

[MadNY3]

Not a waste of time.

The press might focus more on this game and say things obvious over four years to the school's fan base, but it gives people in the NFL the opportunity to see how players conduct themselves in all facets, including off the field, leadership qualities, etc.

The game itself does not matter. Leading up to it does.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's funny, I feel the exact same way about my secret rendezvous with your mom. At this point, it's just easier and cheaper to go back and watch the tapes...

Oh snap!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[sufandu]

that can just be another way to talk yourself into guys that aren't any good.

i'd rather just go by numbers and assume the numbers wouldn't be that good if they're d!ckheads or outcasts

not perfect but i think they make more mistakes discounting college games than they do by just looking at the games and nothing else

Wouldn't going by numbers have made you pass by McNabb in the 1999 draft and go with Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown, or Shaun King? They all passed for more yards and td's in 1998. I think Couch was the only one with a lower quarterback rating by only a couple of points. In 1997, numbers would've told you Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning were nearly identical. Leaf had slightly more yards and a higher qb rating, Manning had 2 more td's. Numbers wouldn't have worked to well with you there. How do you use numbers with D tackles that eat up two blockers on every play so his linebackers can make tackles? Fantasy football doesn't equal real football.

 

[Millhouse]

Wouldn't going by numbers have made you pass by McNabb in the 1999 draft and go with Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown, or Shaun King? They all passed for more yards and td's in 1998. I think Couch was the only one with a lower quarterback rating by only a couple of points. In 1997, numbers would've told you Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning were nearly identical. Leaf had slightly more yards and a higher qb rating, Manning had 2 more td's. Numbers wouldn't have worked to well with you there. How do you use numbers with D tackles that eat up two blockers on every play so his linebackers can make tackles? Fantasy football doesn't equal real football.

good qb ratings don't neccessarily tell you a guy is going to be good. but bad qb ratings do tell a guy is going to be bad.

and it's not like the senior bowl prevented those bad picks.

for that time, mcnabb had a great qb rating. even now in more effective offenses, his qb rating would be very good

looking at the numbers isn't foolproof but at least it'll filter out terrible picks like locker and gabbert.

 

[Millhouse]

Oh snap!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

friggin guy vanishes for 2 years to think of the perfect burn and that's what he comes up with

 

[CIL]

Maybe it helps weed out the guys that have good stats that really aren't so good.

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe it helps weed out the guys that have good stats that really aren't so good.

i think those guys don't get invited to the senior bowl. like florence, sunseri, doege.

glennon's rating sucks, dysert's too. Nassib's is good but not great. (good is an awesome improvement that i'm thrilled about disclaimer)

maybe they weed out manuel and jones but i think you could just look at their ratings and peg them where they should go

qbs who can be good have a senior year rating of 150 or higher. Doesn't mean that you'll definitely be good (the USC exception, if you're from there you'll probably suck despite your rating) but you have a shot. you get below that, i think you're drafting a backup.

all the qbs taken the last 3 years with this year's comparable crop.

Nassib did a great job to get in cousins yates foles territory

Draft Year Name Final Year College Rating Comparable QB Comparable Final College Rating
2011 Enderle 123
2011 Locker 124
2010 Lindley 126
2011 Gabbert 127
2010 Tannehill 133 Glennon 131
2011 Ponder 136 Dysert 136
2010 Osweiler 140

2010 Cousins 145 Nassib 143
2011 Yates 145 Wilson 144
2010 Foles 146 Jones 145
Bray 146

2011 Kaepernick 150
2010 Harnish 153
2011 Taylor 155 Manuel 156
2011 Stanzi 158 Barkley 158
2010 Weeden 160
2011 Mallett 164
2011 Dalton 166 Smith 165
2011 McElroy 169
2010 Luck 170
2011 Newton 182
2010 Griffin 189
2010 Wilson 192

 

[sufandu]

good qb ratings don't neccessarily tell you a guy is going to be good. but bad qb ratings do tell a guy is going to be bad.

and it's not like the senior bowl prevented those bad picks.

for that time, mcnabb had a great qb rating. even now in more effective offenses, his qb rating would be very good

looking at the numbers isn't foolproof but at least it'll filter out terrible picks like locker and gabbert.

I never said McNabb didn't have a good quarterback rating. What I said was the other guys had significantly better ratings and threw for more yards and touchdowns. Most of them threw for around 1,000 more yards and 10 more touchdowns. Simply looking at numbers would tell you McNabb was not as good. You're right, the senior bowl didn't prevent those picks, but it gives scouts the opportunity to see guys side by side and possibly get an inclination of whether the numbers are because of a qb friendly offense or the player's talent.

 

[Millhouse]

I never said McNabb didn't have a good quarterback rating. What I said was the other guys had significantly better ratings and threw for more yards and touchdowns. Most of them threw for around 1,000 more yards and 10 more touchdowns. Simply looking at numbers would tell you McNabb was not as good. You're right, the senior bowl didn't prevent those picks, but it gives scouts the opportunity to see guys side by side and possibly get an inclination of whether the numbers are because of a qb friendly offense or the player's talent.

couch's qb rating wasn't better than mcnabbs. similar senior years. mcnabbs was way better over their college careers.
akili smith's senior year was good. year before bad bad bad.

leaf was 159 in his one year. he was a headcase. he should've been good. nfl execs didn't catch that.

culpepper had a good qb rating. his nfl career will probably be better than most of these guys. i'd take him this year if he could travel in time

shaun king one year wonder at tulane. tulane qb blech

cade mcnown good senior year, career rating 140. eh.

if you look at all their college seasons and passer ratings, you'd probably come away thinking mcnabb was the best and safest pick.

i'm not looking at yards and touchdowns because some guys throw way more. i stick to rating because it makes it apples to apples.

Brady is the best example of a guy who didn't have a great rating in college. I blame lloyd carr for being an idiot messing with him and drew henson. but even his senior year rating was 142. back then that was pretty good. he'd be much higher today. matt ryan had a bad rating in college. brees rating surprisingly bad.

rodgers 150 in college sr year
roethlisberger 165
manning 148

i think that as college offenses and pro offense converge, ruling people out who don't have a good enough rating in college is a better idea than trying to talk yourself into a guy just because brady's coach was dumb

 

[Chip]

friggin guy vanishes for 2 years to think of the perfect burn and that's what he comes up with

Think of how many times he watched those tapes in the last 2 years. He has the most robust VHS player ever created.