Jake Pickard

[Cusefan69]

There are varying opinions, right and wrong on the Doc.

I think the story here, is that a good kid, that suffered too many injuries is finally healthy to play.

This is the what he retweeted immediately before the "cleared".. Easy to say it means the world to him, and it wasn't easy. (I'm not trying to be religious. I'm trying to talk about Jake Pickard)

Good post dude. Agreed.

 

[SU68]

I don't know Dr. Tucker and have no opinion on his competence. How many players (names please) that he has DQ'd were actually able to have successful careers at other schools?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't know Dr. Tucker and have no opinion on his competence. How many players (names please) that he has DQ'd were actually able to have successful careers at other schools?

I'll start. Kyle Knapp, A J Long.

Others I'm not certain of: Stephen Clark, Josh Allen, Luke Arciniega, Sam Clausman

 

[rrlbees]

I'll start. Kyle Knapp, A J Long.

Others I'm not certain of: Stephen Clark, Josh Allen, Luke Arciniega, Sam Clausman

Knapp was dq’d for concussions and transferred to western Michigan but I don’t think he ever suited up. Same with Long but he ended up at west Chester where he did play.

 

[dan7800]

I believe that Clark played for one year, and was medically DQ'd.

To me, if anything it shows that we have a higher standard of the individual athlete vs. having them for the team.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

It's not his specialty.
You must know the guy, or have some involvement here.

Lawyers have specialties, just like doctors do.

I would never put myself in position to have "the final say" on something outside of my area of expertise, let alone get paid (presumably pretty well ) for doing so.

I wouldn't dabble in something that is not what I ordinarily do.

I have no ties to Tucker and have no inside knowledge of the team. I just find bitterness toward a guy doing his job to be pointless, especially when there's no evidence that Jake Pickard's issues have anything to do with the team physician.

The NCAA states that Team Physicians have final authority over a player's ability to play, and these decisions need to be made with the athlete's health in mind first and foremost. So even though a player says they can go, it doesn't necessarily mean the team doctor should allow it.

The NCAA in the same guidelines states that a structure needs to be in place to allow team physicians to have final say. The NCAA mandates it. And it makes sense - if any doctor could have final say, you could get 18th opinions that would let a guy play.

Yes, Tucker is a GP, not a specialist. But that doesn't mean he's clueless when it comes to head injuries or knee injuries or heart issues. While specialized knowledge comes into play, any GP can see if something's still not right - it's what they're trained to do.

What really bothers me and why I fight so hard on this issue is the idea that somehow this guy is a bad actor or incompetent. Medicine is a judgement call, and just because a handful of guys have been disqualified over the years, it doesn't make him a bad doctor.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I'll start. Kyle Knapp, A J Long.

Others I'm not certain of: Stephen Clark, Josh Allen, Luke Arciniega, Sam Clausman

Arciniega didn't play after Cuse. And he had already been DQ'ed before at Nevada. Clausman didn't play elsewhere last year. Not sure on Allen.

 

[rrlbees]

I have no ties to Tucker and have no inside knowledge of the team. I just find bitterness toward a guy doing his job to be pointless, especially when there's no evidence that Jake Pickard's issues have anything to do with the team physician.

The NCAA states that Team Physicians have final authority over a player's ability to play, and these decisions need to be made with the athlete's health in mind first and foremost. So even though a player says they can go, it doesn't necessarily mean the team doctor should allow it.

The NCAA in the same guidelines states that a structure needs to be in place to allow team physicians to have final say. The NCAA mandates it. And it makes sense - if any doctor could have final say, you could get 18th opinions that would let a guy play.

Yes, Tucker is a GP, not a specialist. But that doesn't mean he's clueless when it comes to head injuries or knee injuries or heart issues. While specialized knowledge comes into play, any GP can see if something's still not right - it's what they're trained to do.

What really bothers me and why I fight so hard on this issue is the idea that somehow this guy is a bad actor or incompetent. Medicine is a judgement call, and just because a handful of guys have been disqualified over the years, it doesn't make him a bad doctor.

And he reaches out to specialists when warranted.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I have no ties to Tucker and have no inside knowledge of the team. I just find bitterness toward a guy doing his job to be pointless, especially when there's no evidence that Jake Pickard's issues have anything to do with the team physician.

The NCAA states that Team Physicians have final authority over a player's ability to play, and these decisions need to be made with the athlete's health in mind first and foremost. So even though a player says they can go, it doesn't necessarily mean the team doctor should allow it.

The NCAA in the same guidelines states that a structure needs to be in place to allow team physicians to have final say. The NCAA mandates it. And it makes sense - if any doctor could have final say, you could get 18th opinions that would let a guy play.

Yes, Tucker is a GP, not a specialist. But that doesn't mean he's clueless when it comes to head injuries or knee injuries or heart issues. While specialized knowledge comes into play, any GP can see if something's still not right - it's what they're trained to do.

What really bothers me and why I fight so hard on this issue is the idea that somehow this guy is a bad actor or incompetent. Medicine is a judgement call, and just because a handful of guys have been disqualified over the years, it doesn't make him a bad doctor.

When there are *actual* specialists out there, they should decide, not a near-retirement family doctor.

I wouldn't probate someone's will or negotiate someone's divorce when (a) that's not the kind of law I practice, and (b) there are eminently more qualified people RIGHT HERE in town.

It's not like we live in Alaska or rural Mississippi where there may be a shortage of qualified physicians who practice in the area of neural trauma and concussions.

If you don't get that point, then you're just like my mother-in-law, who used to ask her neighbor the dentist about what all her other doctors told her, and then judged their advice by the opinion of HER DENTIST.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And he reaches out to specialists when warranted.

And sometimes ignores the advice of more qualified physicians when it differs from his opinion.

 

[rrlbees]

And sometimes ignores the advice of more qualified physicians when it differs from his opinion.

And he relies on more qualified physicians who do agree with him at times.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And he relies on more qualified physicians who do agree with him at times.

But if there are "more qualified physicians", as you say, why aren't THEY making the decisions?

 

[rrlbees]

But if there are "more qualified physicians", as you say, why aren't THEY making the decisions?

Because the school isn’t going to have a dozen different doctors depending on the injury.

Most of the names you listed never played anywhere. So I don’t get the point.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

When there are *actual* specialists out there, they should decide, not a near-retirement family doctor.

I wouldn't probate someone's will or negotiate someone's divorce when (a) that's not the kind of law I practice, and (b) there are eminently more qualified people RIGHT HERE in town.

It's not like we live in Alaska or rural Mississippi where there may be a shortage of qualified physicians who practice in the area of neural trauma and concussions.

If you don't get that point, then you're just like my mother-in-law, who used to ask her neighbor the dentist about what all her other doctors told her, and then judged their advice by the opinion of HER DENTIST.

So you’re insulting me because I don’t agree with you? Great.

If there was a neurologist who had final decision, you’d be whining if a guy with a knee injury got DQ’ed because it’s outside his specialty.

 

[Cusester]

Syracuse University has taken a different approach to football injuries than the University of Colorado. That's a good thing, fellow Orange fans. I was as upset as any of you when Steven Clark was disqualified, but imo,erring on the side of caution is the right thing to do for many reasons.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Because the school isn’t going to have a dozen different doctors depending on the injury.

Most of the names you listed never played anywhere. So I don’t get the point.

The point is that this is a big time school. Concussions are the main reason that players get DQ'd, don't you agree? I think it's embarrassing and bush league for a guy with no formal expertise to be making diagnoses that impact both the program and the players and their families.

From an SU perspective, I fully appreciate "Better Safe Than Sorry" approach and I get the insurance issue. I also see the overall trend for the sport. Since brain injuries are the biggest issue in the sport, and will only be more important in the future, why is it so hard for people to say, "Hey, let's get an actual expert to be the doctor who gets the job evaluating players for the university?"

You need neurologists and you need orthopedists, and you need nutritionists. They have all sorts of specialized personnel associated with the Athletic Dept. already, they have a budget in the tens of millions. Come on, this isn't that hard. Get the right kind of doctor making all of these decisions.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So you’re insulting me because I don’t agree with you? Great.

If there was a neurologist who had final decision, you’d be whining if a guy with a knee injury got DQ’ed because it’s outside his specialty.

Why do you insist on defending a doctor's "right" to diagnose and decide the future eligibility of a student athlete where he lacks the personal expertise to make that diagnosis?

I mean, seriously, would you recommend a baby doctor do brain surgery? Why do you think these specialties exist in the first place? You realize that special training is involved, right?

Do you think he can diagnose what's wrong with my car, too? Am I in crazy town?

 

[Bayside44]

When there are *actual* specialists out there, they should decide, not a near-retirement family doctor.

I wouldn't probate someone's will or negotiate someone's divorce when (a) that's not the kind of law I practice, and (b) there are eminently more qualified people RIGHT HERE in town.

It's not like we live in Alaska or rural Mississippi where there may be a shortage of qualified physicians who practice in the area of neural trauma and concussions.

If you don't get that point, then you're just like my mother-in-law, who used to ask her neighbor the dentist about what all her other doctors told her, and then judged their advice by the opinion of HER DENTIST.

Other ACC schools have generalists in the same position as Tucker. Our setup is pretty standard

 

[CuseOnly]

Not one doctor who’s examined a kid has ever posted here.

Anyway, good for Jake.

That is true and not what I meant and I think you know what I meant.

 

[CuseOnly]

And he reaches out to specialists when warranted.

He certainly does...and then ignores their recomendations.

 

[rrlbees]

He certainly does...and then ignores their recomendations.

You sure about that? Not according to a specialist I know. But I'm sure you're going to try and cherry pick one situation and make that a norm.

 

[leftytg]

Other ACC schools have generalists in the same position as Tucker. Our setup is pretty standard

I've written and deleted about a half dozen posts on this topic. My spouse works sports medicine at a major P5 school, and, like every school, there are numerous medical disqualifications. There is so much about how the process works that I'd love to share, but I'm always fearful of sharing too much. There are so many ignorant and unfounded assumptions made by some in this thread, and similar threads bashing Tucker and the Syracuse medical process. People seem to forget the vast majority of this narrative came about because of a player's father angrily posting about a particular situation. There are two sides to every story and Syracuse was restrained for telling their side. You'd think the lawyers on this board - of which I am one - would appreciate unreliability of one sided accounts.

Suffice it to say, the quoted is correct. I have no connection to Syracuse or Tucker and am not attempting to defend the nuances of each and every decision. It is beyond my knowledge. But the set up is standard, and railing against it as if Syracuse is unique or some kind of exception to accepted practice across school is ridiculous..

 

[rrlbees]

I've written and deleted about a half dozen posts on this topic. My spouse works sports medicine at a major P5 school, and, like every school, there are numerous medical disqualifications. There is so much about how the process works that I'd love to share, but I'm always fearful of sharing too much. There are so many ignorant and unfounded assumptions made by some in this thread, and similar threads bashing Tucker and the Syracuse medical process. People seem to forget the vast majority of this narrative came about because of a player's father angrily posting about a particular situation. There are two sides to every story and Syracuse was restrained for telling their side. You'd think the lawyers on this board - of which I am one - would appreciate unreliability of one sided accounts.

Suffice it to say, the quoted is correct. I have no connection to Syracuse or Tucker and am not attempting to defend the nuances of each and every decision. It is beyond my knowledge. But the set up is standard, and railing against it as if Syracuse is unique or some kind of exception to accepted practice across school is ridiculous..

thank you.

 

[baggerbob]

thank you.

In the future could the administrator's put this stuff on another board.