Jason Collins: first openly gay athlete in US Sports history

[cuseincincy]

He's a 34 year old free agent. It almost doesn't count that he came out now. Let's see if any teams have the courage to sign him to a new contract. THAT would be progress.

I really hope someone signs him for next year. I don't really want to hear about how this ended his career even though in reality it may have been over already. This may have been where Brando was going with the whole agent and pr thing. Prior to yesterday Jason Collins was a below average player near the end of his career that no one has really heard from since he left Stanford 12 years ago. Dude is 7' tall with a career average of 3.6 points per game. Hasn't averaged over 4 points in any season for 8 years and has a career high average of 6.4 in 2004. He's done. Does he even count as "an active major sport athlete"? He came out after the season was over and he may never play another game.

 

[sabach]

My issue with this line of thinking is that many people of faith who "disagree" with the gay lifestyle or whatever don't have the same issues with straights who live in open rebellion with God. When adulterers and those who have premarital sex and whatnot are afforded the same vitriolic anger that gays seem to get from certain segments of the faithful, then I'll believe that there isn't bigotry and hatred there.

I can't imagine gays want approval. I think really they want to be able to walk down the street or go to school without getting harassed, job protections, and the ability to marry the consenting adult partner of their choice.

And honestly, what is there to disagree with? The only major difference in lifestyle is that the gays I know go on a lot more trips. Seriously, they're always travelling and checking into airline lounges at JFK and Newark on Facebook. It's obnoxious.

NKR - I was thinking the same thing yesterday and this is something that I have been dealing with for years in the church. In some respects, people of faith have been like a guy wearing a Kobe Bryant or Shawn Kemp jersey yelling at a gay player for his "immoral lifesyle". I was at a conference this past week with Christian church leaders from around the world and the issue of homosexuality and ministry came up often. I personally had a long conversation with two pastors from Rick Warren's church in California and a pastor in L.A. who, though he believes homosexual acts are sinful, has about 10-20 percent of his congregation as homosexuals. We are trying to find ways to be accepting of homosexuals while at the same time not compromising on our belief that the homosexual acts are sinful. That is not easy as a lot of people believe that merely thinking that gay acts are sinful means I hate all gays. There are many in the church who are trying to rid the world of vitrolic anger to everyone which we believe is something that Jesus would approve. The problem is most people only see those who promote the angry attitude that you reference in your post.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So...

Does Collins get another contract?

He's pretty much a fringe NBA player at this point. You'd want to believe that his announcement won't impact this in any way, but I don't know. It could help him, but that feels exploitative. It could hurt him - can't say I expect the teams in Texas, Utah, or Arizona giving him a contract since the signing might not be viewed favorably by the fan base.

What happens next could be an interesting story (does a signing demonstrate greater acceptance? does not getting signed demonstrate intolerance?) but it could also be nothing given that he's at the tail end of the career and isn't a big production guy.

 

[Eric15]

NKR - I was thinking the same thing yesterday and this is something that I have been dealing with for years in the church. In some respects, people of faith have been like a guy wearing a Kobe Bryant or Shawn Kemp jersey yelling at a gay player for his "immoral lifesyle". I was at a conference this past week with Christian church leaders from around the world and the issue of homosexuality and ministry came up often. I personally had a long conversation with two pastors from Rick Warren's church in California and a pastor in L.A. who, though he believes homosexual acts are sinful, has about 10-20 percent of his congregation as homosexuals. We are trying to find ways to be accepting of homosexuals while at the same time not compromising on our belief that the homosexual acts are sinful. That is not easy as a lot of people believe that merely thinking that gay acts are sinful means I hate all gays. There are many in the church who are trying to rid the world of vitrolic anger to everyone which we believe is something that Jesus would approve. The problem is most people only see those who promote the angry attitude that you reference in your post.

From a religious standpoint...

I know the Old Testament forbids homosexuality, but Leviticus also forbids pork, shellfish, shaving, tattoos, and wearing outfits made of two different fabrics. So clearly that isn't relevant.

The New Testament was all about love, compassion and respect for humanity, which is what I respect most about Christianity. Literally everything about the New Testament and Jesus' message implies that gay people should be respected and treated equally. Gay acts and gay people aren't two separate things, they are one in the same. That's their biological identity and who they are at the deepest level.

Sabach, perhaps you, as the nice and reasonable person that you are, could be the catalyst for some positive reform at your church.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

From a religious standpoint...

I know the Old Testament forbids homosexuality, but Leviticus also forbids pork, shellfish, shaving, tattoos, and wearing outfits made of two different fabrics. So clearly that isn't relevant.

The New Testament was all about love, compassion and respect for humanity, which is what I respect most about Christianity. Literally everything about the New Testament and Jesus' message implies that gay people should be respected and treated equally. Gay acts and gay people aren't two separate things, they are one in the same. That's their biological identity and who they are at the deepest level.

Sabach, perhaps you, as the nice and reasonable person that you are, could be the catalyst for some positive reform at your church.

Glad to see you both having this line of civil discussion. I did some very brief research earlier this morning about how Jesus would view the whole issue. Found this which I found to be a great read.

http://www.gaychristian101.com/did-jesus-define-marriage-as-only-between-a-man-and-a-woman.html

I had found another page that completely differed from this view of course and that referenced Mark 10:7 - "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh." What bothers me about this is that Jesus was actually talking about divorce, but no one seems to really be interested in fighting the good fight over the evils of divorce. Like the guns issue and handguns, it seems like everyone has just forgotten about the real problems of society and are focusing on the homosexual behavior or the assault weapons.

I like this quote from the article I posted above - "Why do so many heterosexual preachers harp on the "sin" of homosexuality while ignoring the divorce epidemic in their own churches (sometimes in their own lives)? That is "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel." "

 

[Millhouse]

So...

Does Collins get another contract?

He's pretty much a fringe NBA player at this point. You'd want to believe that his announcement won't impact this in any way, but I don't know. It could help him, but that feels exploitative. It could hurt him - can't say I expect the teams in Texas, Utah, or Arizona giving him a contract since the signing might not be viewed favorably by the fan base.

What happens next could be an interesting story (does a signing demonstrate greater acceptance? does not getting signed demonstrate intolerance?) but it could also be nothing given that he's at the tail end of the career and isn't a big production guy.

The celtics will give him a contract at the end of the bench to avoid the hassle that will come from cutting him

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The celtics will give him a contract at the end of the bench to avoid the hassle that will come from cutting him

The Celtics traded him to the Wizards earlier in the year.

 

[sabach]

Glad to see you both having this line of civil discussion. I did some very brief research earlier this morning about how Jesus would view the whole issue. Found this which I found to be a great read.

http://www.gaychristian101.com/did-jesus-define-marriage-as-only-between-a-man-and-a-woman.html

I had found another page that completely differed from this view of course and that referenced Mark 10:7 - "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh." What bothers me about this is that Jesus was actually talking about divorce, but no one seems to really be interested in fighting the good fight over the evils of divorce. Like the guns issue and handguns, it seems like everyone has just forgotten about the real problems of society and are focusing on the homosexual behavior or the assault weapons.

I like this quote from the article I posted above - "Why do so many heterosexual preachers harp on the "sin" of homosexuality while ignoring the divorce epidemic in their own churches (sometimes in their own lives)? That is "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel." "

As a member of the CNY evangelical community, I believe that the evangelical church's obsession with homosexuality while simultaneously ignoring divorce is IMO one of if not the greatest mistakes the church has made over the past 50 years. And if I had a dollar for every time I have told my wife this over the past 15 years, I would not have to be at work today.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

For the record, and for those who do not know, the question asked to Broussard was "What do you think about Jason Collins being a Christian?" He then explained his interpretation of Christianity in that context. I'm not quite sure what else he is supposed to say, unless you want him to lie(according to his beliefs), and be someone he is not.

If you want to be upset at something, be upset at the question asked by ESPN, as some may argue that is not a proper forum for that type of discussion.

The more I think about Broussard being asked about this and him actually answering the question, the more angry I become. How many players thank God the minute they win the big game, yet we never see any questions being raised about their faith afterwards considering they have children out of wedlock, multiple ex-wives, or other 'sinful' transgressions in their past. I'm sure Broussard knows more about players and their indiscretions than most of us here. It just bothers me.

 

[Knicks411]

Also, the Celtics wouldn't be cutting him, since his contract is up. I bet he gets signed though. He might be too young to be a Knick.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Horses?

He probably wrote Sarah Jessica Parker and it auto corrected

 

[TinyManInside]

Brando is essentially calling it a publicity stunt. Insane. I saw Brando at the boeheim gala this weekend. He should stick to what he does best, whenever he discovers what that is. It's certainly not being a charming and funny MC.

He could use a publicity stunt of his own...

This is just an awesome post.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Is anyone calling Collins a "hero?" I mean he isn't, IMO, but Brando needs to be careful what he is putting out there. I definitely think less of Brando now. Dummy.

 

[JDubbin]

Thi

From a religious standpoint...

I know the Old Testament forbids homosexuality, but Leviticus also forbids pork, shellfish, shaving, tattoos, and wearing outfits made of two different fabrics. So clearly that isn't relevant.

The New Testament was all about love, compassion and respect for humanity, which is what I respect most about Christianity. Literally everything about the New Testament and Jesus' message implies that gay people should be respected and treated equally. Gay acts and gay people aren't two separate things, they are one in the same. That's their biological identity and who they are at the deepest level.

Sabach, perhaps you, as the nice and reasonable person that you are, could be the catalyst for some positive reform at your church.

This is simply not true. The Old and New Testaments are not two completely different books dealing with a different God. The common thread of God's redemption through Christ runs equally through the OT and the NT. This idea that Jesus only preached "love" is simply inaccurate and a poor generalization. Paul in the NT epistles lists homosexuality as a sin, so it's not an OT "thing." Where the church and mislead Christians have gone horribly wrong is somehow thinking of something sinful as a license to hate and a abuse, which is sinful onto itself. Again, it's so sad that "Christians" think of that hate action as somehow validated, it's heartbreaking and infuriating. I don't understand how Broussard keeps getting called out for being selective in his accusation of sin. He's responding to the specific story that's being talked about. It's not like Kobe Bryant wrote a story in SI called "I loved cheating on my wife, I'm all about it" and Broussard would respond with "eh, I only care about focusing on gay athletes." I think he would respond the same way to a Kobe article like that if it was released. Christians and the church are in ad much need, or even more so, of Christ's redemption as everyone else. We are a messed up bunch, nobody is excluded, and have throughout history caused a lot of hurt and have poorly represented Christ in the process. That's why we desperately need him.

 

[KingOtis]

Why is it that the church has evolved on the issue of slavery, yet homosexuality remains a sin? Why is it that some Christians have no issue with homosexuality at all? Are they doing it wrong? Are they bad Christians? Going to hell?

At some point we need to stop giving Christians a free pass when they espouse bigotry in the name of The Lord.

 

[ImperialOrange]

A real Christian knows that only God can judge.

and also knows that if God dealt with us all accordingly to our sinful actions or thoughts that not a single one of us would still be here.

 

[edowd26]

Is anyone calling Collins a "hero?" I mean he isn't, IMO, but Brando needs to be careful what he is putting out there. I definitely think less of Brando now. Dummy.

He certainly can be for others who want to come out. Hero is a subjective term. My father is my hero, is he yours? Bin laden is a hero to some. Brando nor anyone else should be telling the populace who is and is not a hero.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Thi
This is simply not true. The Old and New Testaments are not two completely different books dealing with a different God. The common thread of God's redemption through Christ runs equally through the OT and the NT. This idea that Jesus only preached "love" is simply inaccurate and a poor generalization. Paul in the NT epistles lists homosexuality as a sin, so it's not an OT "thing." Where the church and mislead Christians have gone horribly wrong is somehow thinking of something sinful as a license to hate and a abuse, which is sinful onto itself. Again, it's so sad that "Christians" think of that hate action as somehow validated, it's heartbreaking and infuriating. I don't understand how Broussard keeps getting called out for being selective in his accusation of sin. He's responding to the specific story that's being talked about. It's not like Kobe Bryant wrote a story in SI called "I loved cheating on my wife, I'm all about it" and Broussard would respond with "eh, I only care about focusing on gay athletes." I think he would respond the same way to a Kobe article like that if it was released. Christians and the church are in ad much need, or even more so, of Christ's redemption as everyone else. We are a messed up bunch, nobody is excluded, and have throughout history caused a lot of hurt and have poorly represented Christ in the process. That's why we desperately need him.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2004/04/Was-The-Apostle-Paul-Gay.aspx?p=2

I think this explains Paul a bit more. Maybe his writings wouldn't have been so self-loathing if homosexuality weren't a death sentence at the time he was alive. And maybe the Catholic Church wouldn't have been so messed up if priests weren't required to follow his prison sentence of celibacy.

 

[edowd26]

and also knows that if God dealt with us all accordingly to our sinful actions or thoughts that not a single one of us would still be here.

Whatttt? Im perfect.

 

[Eric15]

Where the church and mislead Christians have gone horribly wrong is somehow thinking of something sinful as a license to hate and a abuse, which is sinful onto itself.

So if I'm following you, you're saying that if I come across a person eating shrimp cocktail, or a pulled pork sandwich, or has clearly shaved that morning, that I should not hate or abuse them, but instead I should simply respectfully point out that what they are doing is a Biblical sin? Is that right?

 

[rychi32]

I'm amazed at the number of non-christians who use scripture (don't judge lest you be judged) to judge Christian ideology.

 

[Lawrinson14]

Why is it that the church has evolved on the issue of slavery, yet homosexuality remains a sin? Why is it that some Christians have no issue with homosexuality at all? Are they doing it wrong? Are they bad Christians? Going to hell?

At some point we need to stop giving Christians a free pass when they espouse bigotry in the name of The Lord.

This is getting really off topic, but the reason is that it is easier to breed more Christians/Catholics than it is to convert those who practice other religions. Homosexual couples do not reproduce (without adopting) so the church is against it. It's the same reason that the church is against contraceptives.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Someone should really move this to the OT board. I think the sports angle has been completely exhausted here.

 

[Bayside44]

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2004/04/Was-The-Apostle-Paul-Gay.aspx?p=2

I think this explains Paul a bit more. Maybe his writings wouldn't have been so self-loathing if homosexuality weren't a death sentence at the time he was alive. And maybe the Catholic Church wouldn't have been so messed up if priests weren't required to follow his prison sentence of celibacy.

Priests would make lousy husbands. I see the guys at our church, they literally go from 6AM to well after 9PM six days a week. The calling is a lot more involved than knocking out a mass or two on Sundays.

 

[JDubbin]

Why is it that the church has evolved on the issue of slavery, yet homosexuality remains a sin? Why is it that some Christians have no issue with homosexuality at all? Are they doing it wrong? Are they bad Christians? Going to hell?

At some point we need to stop giving Christians a free pass when they espouse bigotry in the name of The Lord.

I see, so because a Christian can disagree with the gay and lesbian community that automatically equals bigotry. Awesome assumption. So if I have republican political views and you have democratic, you are a bigot because you disagree and are "judging" my political views. Great premise.