JB's 1000th vs Larranaga's 600th

[AZcuse77]

Jim Larranaga is 70 and just won his 600th game. His players pulled off a "surprise" celebration after the game where you can truly feel how much they love their coach.

Jim Boehiem is 72 and will probably win his 1000th game this year. Even before this year I don't think at during his golden years he's had the level of relationship with this players than JL clearly has. If stuff like Roberson walking out of the locker room, the constant criticism of his players during pressers, the looks on players faces on the sideline, etc. etc... are any indication how much he has lost his players, well than we could be in for a somewhat awkward celebration of his 1000th win.

It'd be nice to see him get that level of love before he retires but I don't see it happening...

 

[jdubs30]

oh great now we're comparing JB to Larranaga.

St. Johns players loved Norm Roberts too

 

[AZcuse77]

oh great now we're comparing JB to Larranaga.

St. Johns players loved Norm Roberts too

I did not compare the two at all in coaching ability, though JL is certainly considered by most to be a very good coach. Even if you were comparing their coaching ability one is listed as having ~400 more wins but nothing about original post was about that. I think especially if JB retires this year it could be pretty awkward celebrating 1000 with this team that he has arguably "lost the locker room" and at minimum is fractured / lacks chemistry.

 

[jdubs30]

I did not compare the two at all in coaching ability, though JL is certainly considered by most to be a very good coach. Even if you were comparing their coaching ability one is listed as having ~400 more wins but nothing about original post was about that. I think especially if JB retires this year it could be pretty awkward celebrating 1000 with this team that he has arguably "lost the locker room" and at minimum is fractured / lacks chemistry.

Ok so the point of the post was the awkwardness of JB possibly celebrating 1000 with a "lost locker room" compared to Larranga celebrating his 600th with players who like him? I still don't think I see the point. Roy Williams' 800th would be a more apt comparison if anything

 

[AZcuse77]

Ok so the point of the post was the awkwardness of JB possibly celebrating 1000 with a "lost locker room" compared to Larranga celebrating his 600th with players who like him? I still don't think I see the point. Roy Williams' 800th would be a more apt comparison if anything

Every presser you watch you can see the clear disdain JB has for this team(so many of his players probably have similar feelings especially after continuing to get slammed in the press). There is no one right method and I'm not saying being a "players coach" is better but it clearly hasn't worked lately as this team is not devoid of talent to the point of how fundamentally awful we play.

The point is, its a sad way to go out for the HOF coach after so many great years. Maybe he's back (though most seem to think he won't be and we're probably going to be just as bad next year either way but I'd hope he has more fun) but it doesn't seem like a fitting end for the guy who built this program to such high levels. I thought that point was pretty clear especially from the third paragraph, but I guess you could call it meaningless.

Roy Williams was thought of as a very mediocre coach who just knew how to recruit for most of his career and was gifted with 2 of the top 4 programs in college basketball but yes he has always been more well liked than just about anyone. Larranaga is probably a better coach but I guess I'll have to duck after saying that. In terms of coaching ability personally I think Coach K is a better comparison point.

 

[jdubs30]

Miami being outscored 29-4 in the 2nd half with 8:33 to go in the game. Larranaga has lost the locker room and we can only shiver at the thought how they celebrate his next win knowing how awkward it will be

 

[iommi]

Jim Larranaga is 70 and just won his 600th game. His players pulled off a "surprise" celebration after the game where you can truly feel how much they love their coach.

Jim Boehiem is 72 and will probably win his 1000th game this year. Even before this year I don't think at during his golden years he's had the level of relationship with this players than JL clearly has. If stuff like Roberson walking out of the locker room, the constant criticism of his players during pressers, the looks on players faces on the sideline, etc. etc... are any indication how much he has lost his players, well than we could be in for a somewhat awkward celebration of his 1000th win.

It'd be nice to see him get that level of love before he retires but I don't see it happening...

Can't believe I missed this. Can you expand on this? I know Roberson hasn't responded well to JB but where was this reported?

 

[two3zone]

Can't believe I missed this. Can you expand on this? I know Roberson hasn't responded well to JB but where was this reported?

What is going on?

 

[AZcuse77]

Can't believe I missed this. Can you expand on this? I know Roberson hasn't responded well to JB but where was this reported?

I forgot which thread it was that a reporter tweeted out Robey (likely getting chewed out further) walked out of the locker room and JB yelled at him to get his butt back in here... could have been innocent or something more but there's plenty of evidence from today and before that. I think the look on players faces on the sidelines was worse... I mean To continue with the JL theme he absolutely laid in to his freshman in the first half... who got fired up. All I see is Cuse players tuning out... not trying... completely unfocused dribbling balls off foots with no pressure.

 

[iommi]

I forgot which thread it was that a reporter tweeted out Robey (likely getting chewed out further) walked out of the locker room and JB yelled at him to get his butt back in here... could have been innocent or something more but there's plenty of evidence from today and before that. I think the look on players faces on the sidelines was worse... I mean To continue with the JL theme he absolutely laid in to his freshman in the first half... who got fired up. All I see is Cuse players tuning out... not trying... completely unfocused dribbling balls off foots with no pressure.

Ugh. Yeah, missed two3zone 's thread. Read it now. Wish I knew more about the context about JB's comments. I wish someone would elaborate. This is something worth further reportage. Was Roberson trying to avoid reporters or walking out from another JB verbal lashing? Or something else? Team is seriously messed up. Forget X's and O's.

 

[AZcuse77]

Ugh. Yeah, missed two3zone 's thread. Read it now. Wish I knew more about the context about JB's comments. I wish someone would elaborate. This is something worth further reportage. Was Roberson trying to avoid reporters or walking out from another JB verbal lashing? Or something else? Team is seriously messed up. Forget X's and O's.

The only thing I am completely sure of... and chatted it last two games... posted it... is that JB must really hate Roberson. Yes Robey played bad today (so did everyone but Lydon pretty much) but it looks so obvious we need to start him at 4 and Lydon at 5 and not start every game down 10-12 points trying to hope TT provides enough offense to overcome him being our worst 5 in memory and Lydon being worse at the 4 than the 5.

The air and hope is out of the game 5 minutes in ... and its nothing new that TT is completely lost at the 5. Yet we keep starting him and digging a hole and starting with this hole. I don't even think he made a shot he looked bad on O too today. Besides a couple games we are actually decent on offense especially with Battle healthy and driving. We prob average 70 a game I would guess. Our D is unwatchable.

 

[iommi]

The only thing I am completely sure of... and chatted it last two games... posted it... is that JB must really hate Roberson. Yes Robey played bad today (so did everyone but Lydon pretty much) but it looks so obvious we need to start him at 4 and Lydon at 5 and not start every game down 10-12 points trying to hope TT provides enough offense to overcome him being our worst 5 in memory and Lydon being worse at the 4 than the 5.

The air and hope is out of the game 5 minutes in ... and its nothing new that TT is completely lost at the 5. Yet we keep starting him and digging a hole and starting with this hole. I don't even think he made a shot he looked bad on O too today.

TT: 0 points, 4 fouls, 0 defense

The Senior Day ceremony is going to be really interestimg, with the Roberson family. Awk-ward.Popcorn

 

[AZcuse77]

TT: 0 points, 4 fouls, 0 defense

The Senior Day ceremony is going to be really with the Roberson family. Awk-ward.

Lydon isn't going to be an all star defender but he sure is better than anything we have at the 5. DC made a couple nice plays on offense I was happy to see him get a chance but he was just as bad as TT on defense today. Robey is a good wing IMHO and our sole good rebounder. I can only imagine its personal to start a freshman over him who has clearly established he has no interest effort or ability to play in the zone... maybe I'm wrong but its a terrible decision either way.

 

[iommi]

Lydon isn't going to be an all star defender but he sure is better than anything we have at the 5. DC made a couple nice plays on offense I was happy to see him get a chance but he was just as bad as TT on defense today. Robey is a good wing IMHO and our sole good rebounder. I can only imagine its personal to start a freshman over him who has clearly established he has no interest effort or ability to play in the zone... maybe I'm wrong but its a terrible decision either way.

I've never been a huge Roberson fan because I don't like guys who don't bring it all the time.

That said, I don't know if it's a personal thing with JB starting TT over TR but it's obviously a frosty relationship. And JB has handled TR exactly the opposite of how he needed to. All 4 years.

 

[AZcuse77]

I've never been a huge Roberson fan because I don't like guys who don't bring it all the time.

That said, I don't know if it's a personal thing with JB starting TT but over TR but it's obviously a frosty relationship. And JB has handled TR exactly the opposite of how he needed to. All 4 years.

I kind of think the opposite... We don't get to see inside conversations but if I were Robey I would have totally told JB to f off and shut down by now, probably something more militant. I know he has his peaks and valleys but I guess I see a lot more effort than most of the team from him. He's not great but he has a limited skill set and I don't see him not trying despite being the whipping boy.

 

[PoppyHart]

Ugh. Yeah, missed two3zone 's thread. Read it now. Wish I knew more about the context about JB's comments. I wish someone would elaborate. This is something worth further reportage. Was Roberson trying to avoid reporters or walking out from another JB verbal lashing? Or something else? Team is seriously messed up. Forget X's and O's.

You tell us about Evan Dourdas (SP) and we'll provide the context of JB's comments. Deal?

 

[iommi]

I kind of think the opposite... We don't get to see inside conversations but if I were Robey I would have totally told JB to f off and shut down by now, probably something more militant. I know he has his peaks and valleys but I guess I see a lot more effort than most of the team from him. He's not great but he has a limited skill set and I don't see him not trying despite being the whipping boy.

I get your point but what do you see as the difference between keyed in Robey and unplugged Robey? Effort is not a difference-maker?

 

[iommi]

You tell us about Evan Dourdas (SP) and we'll provide the context of JB's comments. Deal?

To quote George HW Bush via Dana Carvey "wouldn't be prudent." Drop the Dourdas stuff. Cannot and will not post on it going forward.

 

[AZcuse77]

I get your point but what do you see as the difference between keyed in Robey and unplugged Robey? Effort is not a difference-maker?

I hear ya I think its way overstated. I've seen him get whipping boy chewing many times where he looked like he was giving full effort. And I don't know how he does it. I think we agree its not the right approach with him. He is the energizer bunny sticking out so often and probably in the best shape on the team.

So if JB lashings make him unplug or don't work wouldn't you try a different approach? I really do think its overstated anyways. I actually focus on him watching a ton because its an interesting plot line. Seems like there have been a lot of games the last couple years he's looked great, made one bad play or mistimed rebound... gotten unnecessarily slammed by JB... and it never seems to be a good thing for him. You can call him a wimp or figure out how today's generation each player has to be treated individually.

 

[dasher]

I did not compare the two at all in coaching ability, though JL is certainly considered by most to be a very good coach. Even if you were comparing their coaching ability one is listed as having ~400 more wins but nothing about original post was about that. I think especially if JB retires this year it could be pretty awkward celebrating 1000 with this team that he has arguably "lost the locker room" and at minimum is fractured / lacks chemistry.

Did he lose the locker room when we were winning 3 out of 4 by double figures just a week or so ago? We are what we are. Not that good. We are playing pretty well at home right now but not very well on the road. JB has been yelling at players like this for 41 years. Those players were better. Oh, I think JB is wrong to go after players like that in his pressers. It serves no good purpose. But it hasn't cost him the locker room. Lack of talent is this teams problem.

 

[iommi]

I hear ya I think its way overstated. I've seen him get whipping boy chewing many times where he looked like he was giving full effort. And I don't know how he does it. I think we agree its not the right approach with him. He is the energizer bunny sticking out so often and probably in the best shape on the team.

So if JB lashings make him unplug or don't work wouldn't you try a different approach? I really do think its overstated anyways. I actually focus on him watching a ton because its an interesting plot line. Seems like there have been a lot of games the last couple years he's looked great, made one bad play or mistimed rebound... gotten unnecessarily slammed by JB... and it never seems to be a good thing for him. You can call him a wimp or figure out how today's generation each player has to be treated individually.

It would be nice if Roberson didn't spazz so often and make a terrible play (as you alluded to) or miss an easy layup, bunny or dunk. He's very frustrating to watch. Very enigmatic player.

 

[AZcuse77]

Did he lose the locker room when we were winning 3 out of 4 by double figures just a week or so ago? We are what we are. Not that good. We are playing pretty well at home right now but not very well on the road. JB has been yelling at players like this for 41 years. Those players were better. Oh, I think JB is wrong to go after players like that in his pressers. It serves no good purpose. But it hasn't cost him the locker room. Lack of talent is this teams problem.

I do think times have changed. I also watched both the MIA and PIT home wins and yes we are a team that needs 3-4 guys shooting /playing well and we looked to gain some confidence. I also think Gillon is not good at all but was riding high in confidence those games draining NBA 3's he can't consistently make.

They all want to succeed. Yes I think its a very questionable the coaching approach and different over those 41 years... really confusing how the fundamentals can remotely be this bad... and it is not a proof of anything that a few talented players can get on fire and gain confidence for a couple home games to show this is the most dysfunctional team in the JB era.

 

[iommi]

Did he lose the locker room when we were winning 3 out of 4 by double figures just a week or so ago? We are what we are. Not that good. We are playing pretty well at home right now but not very well on the road. JB has been yelling at players like this for 41 years. Those players were better. Oh, I think JB is wrong to go after players like that in his pressers. It serves no good purpose. But it hasn't cost him the locker room. Lack of talent is this teams problem.

Not sure you're right, dasher. May have been a cumulative thing. Most of the team looks checked out.

Look, they may "wake" up and play well (against Wake) but it's not a good look.

 

[dasher]

I do think times have changed. I also watched both the MIA and PIT home wins and yes we are a team that needs 3-4 guys shooting /playing well and we looked to gain some confidence. I also think Gillon is not good at all but was riding high in confidence those games draining NBA 3's he can't consistently make.

They all want to succeed. Yes I think its a very questionable the coaching approach and different over those 41 years... really confusing how the fundamentals can remotely be this bad... and it is not a proof of anything that a few talented players can get on fire and gain confidence for a couple home games to show this is the most dysfunctional team in the JB era.

??? Change the goal posts. This is a bad team. We don't have a pt guard. Dislike Gillon but Howard has been a major disappointment. Our offense isn't very good. Players like Coleman and Roberson have not improved. That is on them and the coaches.

 

[dasher]

Not sure you're right, dasher. May have been a cumulative thing. Most of the team looks checked out.

Look, they may "wake" up and play well (against Wake) but it's not a good look.

At no point in this season could this team have got on the courts on ND and UNC and given them a game. Did they check out in early November?