Jordan Tucker Derail Thread

[SoBeCuse]

Your last sentence should be required reading for the board.

We have a HOF coach, the biggest venue in college basketball, the 5th winningest program of all time, and play in the best conference in college basketball. We're have clear holes in our starting lineup, and thus can offer nearly unlimited PT / shots / starting roles, and we're coming off of a recent final four run, and yet haven't been able to capitalize on the recruiting trail -- why is that?

Was it JB being disengaged due to the Olympics last year? Effort of the staff not being what it should be? Slippage? Other factors?

Right. Something is not right if we officially lose Tucker, Ayala, Wilson, etc. I think posters who vehemently defend the program/JB/recruiting cling to the recent F4 as a defense mechanism to allow blinders for the other issues. Lots of good that F4 did. Those are for the record books and for historians, frankly. It's not hurting Arizona is it? The lack of F4s recently. Kansas gets ridiculed here as chokers but it's sure not hurting them. Miami is kicking our butts in recruiting. Like you say a HOF coach, biggest venue (needing some big upgrades, albeit), playing time galore, etc. The Syracuse recent pipeline to the NBA doesn't even translate to great play on the court. I'm not sure what's going on. Hopefully, we just don't settle on the scraps further down the trough to fill out this 2017 class.

 

[cuse10]

The program didn't lose Ayala. His camp wants him to reclassify. That is out of everyone's control.

 

[Deano]

Right. Something is not right if we officially lose Tucker, Ayala, Wilson, etc. I think posters who vehemently defend the program/JB/recruiting cling to the recent F4 as a defense mechanism to allow blinders for the other issues. Lots of good that F4 did. Those are for the record books and for historians, frankly. It's not hurting Arizona is it? The lack of F4s recently. Kansas gets ridiculed here as chokers but it's sure not hurting them. Miami is kicking our butts in recruiting. Like you say a HOF coach, biggest venue (needing some big upgrades, albeit), playing time galore, etc. The Syracuse recent pipeline to the NBA doesn't even translate to great play on the court. I'm not sure what's going on. Hopefully, we just don't settle on the scraps further down the trough to fill out this 2017 class.

My take, based on how things were supposed to be set going forward, was this was JB's last year. He was probably thinking that if anyone needs to get out there and close or see top kids it should be Ho,p as he was originally designated as the Coach in waiting. When Hop didn't get a possible warm fuzzy from higher ups in the administration he decided not to take the full reigns and do what JB always did. This is just my opinion why are recruiting has suffered.

 

[cuse10]

And Ayala isn't that nice to where this board is losing sleep over him.

 

[jordoo]

Right. Something is not right if we officially lose Tucker, Ayala, Wilson, etc. I think posters who vehemently defend the program/JB/recruiting cling to the recent F4 as a defense mechanism to allow blinders for the other issues. Lots of good that F4 did. Those are for the record books and for historians, frankly. It's not hurting Arizona is it? The lack of F4s recently. Kansas gets ridiculed here as chokers but it's sure not hurting them. Miami is kicking our butts in recruiting. Like you say a HOF coach, biggest venue (needing some big upgrades, albeit), playing time galore, etc. The Syracuse recent pipeline to the NBA doesn't even translate to great play on the court. I'm not sure what's going on. Hopefully, we just don't settle on the scraps further down the trough to fill out this 2017 class.

If we had been recruiting the way AZ and KU have I think we would see tons of success. I think JB has done well with what we've had but we have had incomplete teams, some with glaring weaknesses at certain positions. That all points to recruiting and planning for future seasons. Yes limited ships and limits to coaches recruiting has hurt but that simply underlines the fact that we haven't done as well as we need to in identifying the talent and getting the talent to SU. When you limit the ships it makes the misses hurt that much more.

 

[cuse10]

If we had been recruiting the way AZ and KU have I think we would see tons of success. I think JB has done well with what we've had but we have had incomplete teams, some with glaring weaknesses at certain positions. That all points to recruiting and planning for future seasons. Yes limited ships and limits to coaches recruiting has hurt but that simply underlines the fact that we haven't done as well as we need to in identifying the talent and getting the talent to SU. When you limit the ships it makes the misses hurt that much more.

What success does Arizona have? They haven't gone to a Final Four since 2001. If anything, they've largely underachieved considering the talent they've been able to get to come to Tucson (which has a very nice campus as a selling point to recruits).

 

[Day2]

Lots of good that F4 did. Those are for the record books and for historians, frankly.

If you've already moved on from a F4 that was barely over a year ago, why do you even follow this sport and this team? I'm not trying to insult you or tell you what to do, I'm just trying to understand. You say it doesn't matter to the prospects and you might be right. But why doesn't it matter to you?

 

[jordoo]

What success does Arizona have? They haven't gone to a Final Four since 2001. If anything, they've largely underachieved considering the talent they've been able to get to come to Tucson (which has a very nice campus as a selling point to recruits).

They have success recruiting and do well getting protected seeds in the tourney because of it. We have a better basketball coach that could make deep tourney runs with that type of talent.

 

[dasher]

And Ayala isn't that nice to where this board is losing sleep over him.

Ayala is a very good player.

 

[SoBeCuse]

My take, based on how things were supposed to be set going forward, was this was JB's last year. He was probably thinking that if anyone needs to get out there and close or see top kids it should be Ho,p as he was originally designated as the Coach in waiting. When Hop didn't get a possible warm fuzzy from higher ups in the administration he decided not to take the full reigns and do what JB always did. This is just my opinion why are recruiting has suffered.

Yes. Could be for sure. Could be recruits also were actually more interested in Hop's plan at SU than the current. Sanctions likely clouded the program for some elite recruits' parents possibly. I don't and never have really bought how it truly limited availability to recruit.

If you've already moved on from a F4 that was barely over a year ago, why do you even follow this sport and this team? I'm not trying to insult you or tell you what to do, I'm just trying to understand. You say it doesn't matter to the prospects and you might be right. But why doesn't it matter to you?

Yes, that is what I mean to clarify. It doesn't matter to recruits, imo. That is why Arizona, Kansas, and even Miami now are doing well. F4s or no F4s I just want to see consistent play on the court. We need better players. Whether they are NBA measurables types or program types. We need good regular seasons. NIT level ain't gonna cut it. Until recruiting picks up I think that's where are range will be... .500 type teams and/or sweating out Selection Sunday on TV as a bubble team over and over. Like Mason or whoever it was said; we're Syracuse not Providence.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Right. Something is not right if we officially lose Tucker, Ayala, Wilson, etc. I think posters who vehemently defend the program/JB/recruiting cling to the recent F4 as a defense mechanism to allow blinders for the other issues. Lots of good that F4 did. Those are for the record books and for historians, frankly. It's not hurting Arizona is it? The lack of F4s recently. Kansas gets ridiculed here as chokers but it's sure not hurting them. Miami is kicking our butts in recruiting. Like you say a HOF coach, biggest venue (needing some big upgrades, albeit), playing time galore, etc. The Syracuse recent pipeline to the NBA doesn't even translate to great play on the court. I'm not sure what's going on. Hopefully, we just don't settle on the scraps further down the trough to fill out this 2017 class.

How many of the schools that you mentioned are dealing with NCAA restrictions? I think those who defend the program/JB are also "clinging" to a track record of success that spans 5 decades.

 

[jordoo]

Ayala is a very good player.

Yep. Probably not a super star freshman but good enough to play both guard spots for us right out of the gate.

 

[SoBeCuse]

What success does Arizona have? They haven't gone to a Final Four since 2001. If anything, they've largely underachieved considering the talent they've been able to get to come to Tucson (which has a very nice campus as a selling point to recruits).

So what? They are ALWAYS good. Can beat anybody and play hard. When is the last time Arizona was blown out by an inferior team? They ran into a super hot team in Xavier who couldn't miss in that S16 game. Otherwise they are playing in another E8. Which would've been like three in the last four years. Two E8 losses were like one possession games against those Wisconsin excellent Kaminsky/Dekker teams and one was in OT. Sign me up for that and no bubble, please.

 

[Briancuse]

So what? They are ALWAYS good. Can beat anybody and play hard. When is the last time Arizona was blown out by an inferior team? They ran into a super hot team in Xavier who couldn't miss in that S16 game. Otherwise they are playing in another E8. Which would've been like three in the last four years. Two E8 losses were like one possession games against those Wisconsin excellent Kaminsky/Dekker teams and one was in OT.

And then Gonzaga blew their doors off the next game, this was supposed to be their year, that was a terrible loss.

 

[dasher]

So what? They are ALWAYS good. Can beat anybody and play hard. When is the last time Arizona was blown out by an inferior team? They ran into a super hot team in Xavier who couldn't miss in that S16 game. Otherwise they are playing in another E8. Which would've been like three in the last four years. Two E8 losses were like one possession games against those Wisconsin excellent Kaminsky/Dekker teams and one was in OT.

So? They lost close games. They get any extra points for that? At the end of the day, it is about advancing. And their record of getting to final fours isn't very good.

 

[NineOneSeven]

So? They lost close games. They get any extra points for that? At the end of the day, it is about advancing. And their record of getting to final fours isn't very good.

How much better is Uconn than us?

 

[dasher]

How much better is Uconn than us?

I don't understand the question? What does Uconn and us have to do with Arizona not making final fours?

 

[721Comstock]

Well, Paul Hewitt and Brian Gregory were coaching our program as of late so...yeah. Not many displays of offense.

CJP does run a style that exploits offensive strengths (Okogie, Vanilla Godzilla) so at the very least there will be offense and shooting displayed.

If you're an NBA talent they are going to find you. from Arizona St, Weber St, and Davidson are some of the best players in the league right now. Problem is BG probably couldn't recruit refugees from Cuba to come play for him let alone high end College talent ready for the NBA.

Pastner's coaching GT now, and he hasn't gotten hardly anybody drafted either in his career.

But that's all gonna change now, because reasons!! :blah:

 

[HOFCeluck]

If Arizona continued to recruit like they then it's just a matter of time

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't understand the question? What does Uconn and us have to do with Arizona not making final fours?

UConn is clearly a better program, since as you said, it's all about advancing.

 

[dasher]

UConn is clearly a better program, since as you said, it's all about advancing.

I said it was about advancing to final fours. We have advanced to more final fours than UConn. 6 to 5. I didn't say anything about national championships. Nice try. But you have to do better.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I said it was about advancing to final fours. We have advanced to more final fours than UConn. 6 to 5. I didn't say anything about national championships. Nice try. But you have to do better.

So final fours matter, but not titles? That's a fascinating take.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don't understand the question? What does Uconn and us have to do with Arizona not making final fours?

This is the answer I expected

 

[dasher]

This is the answer I expected

Great. maybe next time you can post something that makes sense and is relevant to the conversation. I remain hopeful. Good luck.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I said it was about advancing to final fours. We have advanced to more final fours than UConn. 6 to 5. I didn't say anything about national championships. Nice try. But you have to do better.

I'm just arguing that the F4s don't truly matter to recruits. I think there is enough evidence to support this now re: Arizona, Kansas, Miami currently. I just think it gets overvalued as a recruiting pitch in today's game. Nice for the statistic nerds, historians, and for fans obviously to compare and debate program hierarchy over. Just my $.02.