Last Jedi Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

[HoustonCuse]

Like Rogue One but could have done without Donnie Yen in his not quite a Jedi role.

Ha, I loved Rogue One and thought that character was maybe one of the best in all of the series as well. I don't exactly get why he wasn't a Jedi but in any event, he was the kind of character they could have built a main saga movie around in my opinion.

 

[CuseTG2003]

I enjoyed it and thought it was very well done and entertaining, but I can't shake the feeling of disappointment due to unreasonably high expectations. It's hard to articulate how I feel, but I guess I was just hoping for a slower, deeper/more adult movie w/ a lot more character development. I feel like not much changed in the overarching story once it was over. Killing off Snoke w/out shedding any light on his backstory is weak. I thought the humor was well done. Definitely looking forward to seeing it again. I expect I'll change my tune.

 

[maxxyz]

Like Rogue One but could have done without Donnie Yen in his not quite a Jedi role.

Wow - I thought Donnie Yen's character was great in Rogue One. Just goes to show you how movies can affect people in different ways.

 

[HoustonCuse]

The reason it fell flat to me was:

1. This guy is so in tune with the Force that he can connect Rey and Ren's minds like they're Harry & Voldemort, but at the same time, so out of touch with the Force that he couldn't feel the lightsaber 5 inches from his body being manipulated by the very person that he was focused on?

2. Ren and Rey literally struggled more fighting Snoke's random security guards than they did Snoke.

See I thought it was done well - or at least well enough. Snoke was looking into Kylo's mind but his arrogance was projecting a certain outcome on what he was seeing. His narration of the scene was actually correct, that Kylo would strike down his true enemy. Which he did. That whole part was well handled and interesting. Plus it was just a really cool idea and really great visuals. It also fell in well with the lore - we know that all Dark Side people either kill their master eventually or get killed/replaced by a better protege. Another way to take that scene that would have been fascinating would have been to challenge Rey to kill Kylo and take his place as Snoke's student.

All that was totally fine. So in effect I guess the things that make me unsettled about this story was the underwhelming treatment of Luke, the completely unnecessary Finn/Rose component, the "Carrie Poppins" flying Leia scene, and the jokey stuff that went too far. Right off that bat, the Poe/Hux "waiting on hold" scene at the beginning of the movie would be more at home in Spaceballs than a legit franchise Star Wars film for goodness sake.

 

[CuseTG2003]

I may be in the minority but I really liked it. The only film in the series of trilogies I liked better was ESB.

I think a lot of the issues people had with the movie were of their own doing/expectations. Meaning Snoke and Rey's parents.

Not to say the film was perfect .. I would have cut the Leia force pull (easily the worst part of the film) and the Maz scene at a minimum and probably would not have missed most of the casino planet scenes either.

I also think Kylo Ren is a fantastic villain who is growing better each movie. He is a complex character and I love what they are doing with him and his interactions with Rey. Their fight scene in Snoke's chambers against the Praetorian guard is one of the best fights scenes in any of the movies.

Adam Driver is a really fantastic actor and by far the star of the new trilogy in my opinion. I was expecting and/or hoping him to be more conflicted though.

 

[Alsacs]

Was it cool or sad for people that they killed off Nien Nunb?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Was it cool or sad for people that they killed off Nien Nunb?

My buddy I saw it with who is a big star wars fan didn't like the way ackbar went out. Just happened so quickly I guess. Only barely acknowledged but then again, it is war.

 

[crales44]

Was it cool or sad for people that they killed off Nien Nunb?

Nien Nunb survived. Which means, eventually, he's going to be getting his own: A Star Wars Story movie.

https://entertainment.theonion.com/new-star-wars-film-once-again-disappoints-die-hard-ni-1821291309

 

[Orangezoo]

Just saw it today. So I will say I really enjoyed it but do understand the complaints.

I felt it was like one and a half movies jammed into one film. There were so many story lines building out along with the odd killing off of Luke and Snoke.

I like that Kylo is a very complex character and you get to know him better much like we did Anakin.

I know some were upset about Luke's role but I see it as moving things forward now that Carrie has passed away and the next story can kill her off screen. Having one without the other with Solo already gone as well just wouldn't fit imho going forward.

The flaws of the Jedi make for an intriguing aspect as well. I think it will be key to pull things all together in the next film.

As for Snoke, I was also perplexed how little role he played, beyond serving the need for Kylo to grow into a villain vs just being dropped into leadership in ep. 7. Something also intriguing about Snoke is that he shares a lot of similarities with Maz in facial features and of course remember Maz had the lightsaber. Have to wonder if there is a story to be told there and one that will fill in the void of Snoke's character.

 

[Guinness]

Wow - I thought Donnie Yen's character was great in Rogue One. Just goes to show you how movies can affect people in different ways.

Had he been a Jedi I would have loved him. It just felt like they were being too cute with his character.

 

[Trueblue25]

Is there any chance that Snoke is not actually dead? Theres a history of sith being able to preserve their life force and distributing it to other beings. We dont see this in the movies but its big in lore.


Just a thought.

 

[maxxyz]

Had he been a Jedi I would have loved him. It just felt like they were being too cute with his character.

He was a Guardian of the Whills, a group that was fading out. He and Baze were lost souls with no direction. I thought their characters were interesting, even if they played Donnie for comic relief.

 

[DomeStranger]

Well it will be no matter who Rey is because Kylo Ren is a Skywalker in bloodline.

The interesting thing is this marks the end of the original cast no more Han Solo, Luke, Leia. Only Chewy is left. The other thing is basically who/how will Kylo and Rey get trained? We know for certain that Kylo was not fully trained and Rey has basically only audited one course at the community college. For that reason I bet Luke will be featured extensively in IX as a force ghost.

So, Luke senses the darkness in Rey, even more than he noticed in Kylo. And Kylo is known to be conflicted and has good in him. What are the odds these two do a flip flop in the end? Rey turns evil and Luke guides Ben Solo back to a Jedi and completes his training. Ben then defeats Ms. Snoke and gets hugs and high fives from his proud and happy Jedi ghost family. And the galaxy lived happily ever after.

 

[HoustonCuse]

So, Luke senses the darkness in Rey, even more than he noticed in Kylo. And Kylo is known to be conflicted and has good in him. What are the odds these two do a flip flop in the end? Rey turns evil and Luke guides Ben Solo back to a Jedi and completes his training. Ben then defeats Ms. Snoke and gets hugs and high fives from his proud and happy Jedi ghost family. And the galaxy lived happily ever after.

Well one of the oddities is that Luke said a couple times that Kylo Ren is way past help. Absolutely no way to redeem him. This is strange because it's the same guy who saw good in Vader who betrayed no goodness whatsoever. Maybe trying to turn people to the light is a young person's game because Rey is all about it.

Three possible outcomes for IX:
1. Rey and Kylo battle for control of the galaxy. Rey wins.
2. Same but Kylo wins. This would be a wild outcome.
3. Rey and Ghost Anakin turn Kylo and redeem him, they live happily ever after.

Really the Force Ghost with the willingness and legit chance to turn him around is Anakin not Luke. He idolizes Vader; who better to turn him? (Why this wouldn't have happened already is a huge mystery unless Snoke had the power to prevent that type of contact, but now that he is gone the door is open). So I am going to predict Hayden Christiansen is in IX.

 

[DomeStranger]

Yeah, Luke's kind of a dumbass, even Yoda is still smacking him around. And his judgement sucks as well.

And maybe Ren wouldn't be encouraged by the guy who tried to kill him in his sleep.

 

[Trueblue25]

Ackbar dying is horse——

 

[DoubleDee]

We had a short bathroom break at one point.

Real SW fans hold it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think there were some highs and some lows. As a stand alone or for a non Star Wars fan I think it would be unliked. Too many wasted scenes. The whole casino planet was a waste. Easily could have been cut out. Did we really need 3 battle scenes? In hindsight they could have picked up the chase right before the jump to hyper space and cut out the whole beginning. I think the slow plotting chase was apropos of the movie overall. I thought the new little animal thingy things were dumb and could be cut out. Luke almost killing Ben was absurd.

I don't mind Luke's death. I thought his Ironmanesque of being remotely there was interesting. I thought the humor was the best part of the movie. I liked Snoke's death. Kylo did it to be #1 unlike Vader who did it for Luke. Although I do dislike his character or how the actor portrays him not sure which. I also dislike Poe not sure if character or actor.

I think that is the worst thing about the reboot. There is no one I connect with. In the original my favorite was Solo. But there was also Luke battling him for who I wanted to be. The second three I guess there was Obi Wan. These new ones? I like Rey but she is a she. I like Finn but his character is bi polar. One moment he is the biggest coward in the galaxy the next moment he has the biggest balls. I feel like he is the new Solo but they haven't written him well.

Rey is so confusing. How can it seem like that CGI chick, Leia, and Han all know who she is but all knowing Luke does not? I think Kylo said she is a nobody to piss her off. If she isn't a Skywalker it might kill off the point of buying into future films. Even the twin angle is dumb at this point as hiding her makes no sense. Neither does the yin yang thing since the Jedi had 100s before while the Sith always had 2.

 

[DoubleDee]

I’m very happy with the film, but sure there are things as there always are to pick apart.

Because Hamill signed on for three films, you can bet he’ll be very prevelent force ghost in IX. If the similarities to the original trilogy continue, you can bet Ben will eventually become good, somehow, and in the final shot a smiling Rey and Ben will stand together, sharing a moment with force ghost yoda, Ben, anakin, Luke, and Leia.
Huh? Huh?

 

[CarolinaCuse]

Had he been a Jedi I would have loved him. It just felt like they were being too cute with his character.

Actually, I think the character of Chirrut Îmwe (in Rogue One) is more fascinating in light of the insights of the Last Jedi. In the Last Jedi, the concept of the the Jedi being a religion is really driven home. The character of Chirrut embodies the idea of the Jedi as a religion (e.g., worshiping, prophesying, etc.)... despite the fact that his character actually demonstrates many of the "natural" features of the Force.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Actually, I think the character of Chirrut Îmwe (in Rogue One) is more fascinating in light of the insights of the Last Jedi. In the Last Jedi, the concept of the the Jedi being a religion is really driven home. The character of Chirrut embodies the idea of the Jedi as a religion (e.g., worshiping, prophesying, etc.)... despite the fact that his character actually demonstrates many of the "natural" features of the Force.

If you listen to how the Jedi describe what a Jedi is, that dude is the only one in the entire saga that lives up to it, honestly. Close second would be Obi Wan. All the others break every rule they have for themselves at every possible opportunity.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Some other thoughts:

-I think Snoke will end up being Palpatine's master. His face is messed up as if he were killed by a light saber. Plus it is the only thing that kind of makes sense.

-I think Rey in the dark side cave was looking into a mirror. The force was trying to tell her that she is the mirror image of Kylo Ren. He is a evil and a guy. She is good and a girl. This would tie in the theory that the force wants to have balance. Vader brought balance to the force by killing most of the Jedi. It left Palpatine/Vader vs Yoda/Obi Wan which is equal. Why the force didn't require balance all the prior years where the Sith were always two doesn't make sense though. When Obi Wan died it allowed Luke to rise and make each side even. When Yoda died it required Palpatine to die. But when Vader died too it left a void in the dark side. I think the back story would be Snoke's resurrection. Luke trying to create a new generation of Jedi would have brought unbalance and Ben Solo "fixed" that.

-I think the plan in the next film was instead of the "Luke I am your father" you will see "Rey I am your mother". But with Carrier Fisher's death not sure how they pull this off.

-I also think the plan was to kill off the main three in each film. First Solo, then Luke, then Leia.

-Vader was such a badass. Why are they making Kylo Ren to be a puck ass bitch?

 

[DoubleDee]

Why are they making Kylo Ren to be a puck ass bitch?

It’s perfect for relating to today’s generation of fans, who also whine and throw fits when they don’t get what they want.

I think Driver is killing it.

I do agree, that when Leia got blown out, it would’ve been a great opportunity to end it there.

 

[HoustonCuse]

-Vader was such a badass. Why are they making Kylo Ren to be a puck ass bitch?

Actually they made 3 full movies about Vader being a whiny punk. I think Kylo Ren is a far scarier and more interesting character. It is somewhat why I liked the mask but I understand how you can't pull off these plot points with the guy in a mask. I also think an actor of the ability of Adam Driver would never take the role if he was going to be in the mask for three films.

It’s perfect for relating to today’s generation of fans, who also whine and throw fits when they don’t get what they want.

I think Driver is killing it.

I do agree, that when Leia got blown out, it would’ve been a great opportunity to end it there.

Agree on Driver. Also on Leia - really tough to imagine why they didn't let her go right there - it would have wrapped up the loose end and also allowed Kylo to have even more rage and confusion at his dark side/First Order lot. Maybe even more importantly, it would have removed what I think is the the worst scene in all the saga (including anything Jar Jar). Although I will say I have seen many comments from viewers saying they found the Carrie Poppins scene to be moving, to the point of tears. I thought it was cringe worthy and embarrassing, but different opinions.

Lastly, with such an iconic image (both the special effects of it and the gesture of self sacrifice), how did they NOT make it Leia who hyperspace missiled Snoke's ship to save the Resistance? Talk about a fitting end for one of the best characters in the series. The Holdo character was extraneous and unneeded like several other plot devices in the film. I know she is in the books and has a long history with Leia but from the films (which is what 90% of viewers know), she seemed like a random and the relationship had zero development. Also she wasn't notable, likable, or relatable in any way. Huge missed opportunity.

 

[AZOrange]

Actually they made 3 full movies about Vader being a whiny punk. I think Kylo Ren is a far scarier and more interesting character. It is somewhat why I liked the mask but I understand how you can't pull off these plot points with the guy in a mask. I also think an actor of the ability of Adam Driver would never take the role if he was going to be in the mask for three films.



Agree on Driver. Also on Leia - really tough to imagine why they didn't let her go right there - it would have wrapped up the loose end and also allowed Kylo to have even more rage and confusion at his dark side/First Order lot. Maybe even more importantly, it would have removed what I think is the the worst scene in all the saga (including anything Jar Jar). Although I will say I have seen many comments from viewers saying they found the Carrie Poppins scene to be moving, to the point of tears. I thought it was cringe worthy and embarrassing, but different opinions.

Lastly, with such an iconic image (both the special effects of it and the gesture of self sacrifice), how did they NOT make it Leia who hyperspace missiled Snoke's ship to save the Resistance? Talk about a fitting end for one of the best characters in the series. The Holdo character was extraneous and unneeded like several other plot devices in the film. I know she is in the books and has a long history with Leia but from the films (which is what 90% of viewers know), she seemed like a random and the relationship had zero development. Also she wasn't notable, likable, or relatable in any way. Huge missed opportunity.

I liked Holdo. A lot