Let this sink in

[GoSU96]

Yes. There are lots of teams less talented than notre dame and Louisville but that doesn't mean you need to give up a first down on every play on average

If you are in the 120s in a big category, you have problems beyond youth

Since when do you care about defense

 

[GoSU96]

I'll play. Duke was a 21 point underdog last week at ND...Duke won. And, in doing so, in no way, shape or form did they appear to be the inferior team, let alone by leaps and bounds. This is the same Duke team that a week later lost by two TD's to Virginia (yesterday) at home...the same UVA team that had just recently lost at home to UConn.

I understand the premise of your post, and, I agree with much of your sentiment, but only to a point.

Just how many years has Cutcliffe been at Duke?

 

[CuseOnly]

Just how many years has Cutcliffe been at Duke?

Been there since 2008

 

[Millhouse]

Since when do you care about defense

Gosu3:16

 

[anomander]

I actually thought Sean Keeley had a great article today about the state of the program. Syracuse Football: This is a season of simple truths

I tend to agree 100% with him. I truly believe we have the HC that we need to get this turned around. The style we are implementing on offense will eventually help negate the talent gap that will always be there to an extent. Babers has said from day 1 that this offense won't really start clicking until next year, but despite that, we are still putting up some insane stats, and have scored on everybody we have played. With 2 more years of Dungey, I have no doubt this will be an elite, top 10-15 offense in 2 years. Offense isn't really a problem now, and it certainly shouldn't be going forward.

Now as for defense. I really don't think Babers ever expects he will have a top 30 defense. They just have to not be terrible. Unfortunately, that's just what they are right now. I don't have a problem with the system, and trust Babers knows what type of defense will best support his moneymaker, which is the offense. The main thing right now is that our talent level on that side of the ball is awful. Throw in the fact that they are young, and you have what we have been witnessing all year. We need a major upgrade in size and a few things to break our way. Either way we have enough young guys getting major experience right now, that even this group, with some added size, and younger talented, shouldn't be awful after this year.

It may not look it right now, but for the first time in a long time I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. We may have to take our lumps this year, but like Keeley said in his article, Dino is laying the foundation for this program. While most seasons may seem a lost cause once bowl eligibility is gone, that is not the case for Syracuse. I'm not giving up hope yet, but if that time does come the coaches have to keep the kids focused on getting their reps and getting better because the future depends on it. So just keep getting better, and get out there and pound the recruiting trail, bringing in kids who fit the offensive and defensive systems.

 

[rrlbees]

I actually thought Sean Keeley had a great article today about the state of the program. Syracuse Football: This is a season of simple truths I tend to agree 100% with him. I truly believe we have the HC that we need to get this turned around. The style we are implementing on offense will eventually help negate the talent gap that will always be there to an extent. Babers has said from day 1 that this offense won't really start clicking until next year, but despite that, we are still putting up some insane stats, and have scored on everybody we have played. With 2 more years of Dungey, I have no doubt this will be an elite, top 10-15 offense in 2 years. Offense isn't really a problem now, and it certainly shouldn't be going forward. Now as for defense. I really don't think Babers ever expects he will have a top 30 defense. They just have to not be terrible. Unfortunately, that's just what they are right now. I don't have a problem with the system, and trust Babers knows what type of defense will best support his moneymaker, which is the offense. The main thing right now is that our talent level on that side of the ball is awful. Throw in the fact that they are young, and you have what we have been witnessing all year. We need a major upgrade in size and a few things to break our way. Either way we have enough young guys getting major experience right now, that even this group, with some added size, and younger talented, shouldn't be awful after this year. It may not look it right now, but for the first time in a long time I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. We may have to take our lumps this year, but like Keeley said in his article, Dino is laying the foundation for this program. While most seasons may seem a lost cause once bowl eligibility is gone, that is not the case for Syracuse. I'm not giving up hope yet, but if that time does come the coaches have to keep the kids focused on getting their reps and getting better because the future depends on it. So just keep getting better, and get out there and pound the recruiting trail, bringing in kids who fit the offensive and defensive systems.

Why can't we be real good on O and D? I reject the idea that it's ok to be bad on defense as long as the offense is real good. Some people make it sound like being bad on D is part of the offensive plan.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Why can't we be real good on O and D? I reject the idea that it's ok to be bad on defense as long as the offense is real good. Some people make it sound like being bad on D is part of the offensive plan.

Because in college football now very, very few teams are actually good on defense.

 

[rrlbees]

Because in college football now very, very few teams are actually good on defense.

There's a lot of good defensive teams, maybe not great. But that misses the whole point.

 

[syracuse95]

Because in college football now very, very few teams are actually good on defense.

It's funny you should mention that, because this morning I was looking at some defensive stats to see how this year's points allowed compared historically, and how much more scoring there was overall in college football.

Surprisingly, at least to me, the idea that "nobody plays defense anymore" isn't really true. At least not based on points allowed per game.

In 2003 (the furthest back teamrankings.com goes), allowing 21.5 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 25.8 PPG. Allowing more than 32 put you in the bottom 25%.

In 2009, allowing 22.2 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 26.5 PPG. Allowing more than 30.7 put you in the bottom 25%.

In 2015, allowing 23.0 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 27.8 PPG. Allowing more than 34.1 put you in the bottom 25%.

Scoring hasn't gone up as much as some of the Big 12 games might make people believe.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's funny you should mention that, because this morning I was looking at some defensive stats to see how this year's points allowed compared historically, and how much more scoring there was overall in college football.

Surprisingly, at least to me, the idea that "nobody plays defense anymore" isn't really true. At least not based on points allowed per game.

In 2003 (the furthest back teamrankings.com goes), allowing 21.5 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 25.8 PPG. Allowing more than 32 put you in the bottom 25%.

In 2009, allowing 22.2 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 26.5 PPG. Allowing more than 30.7 put you in the bottom 25%.

In 2015, allowing 23.0 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 27.8 PPG. Allowing more than 34.1 put you in the bottom 25%.

Scoring hasn't gone up as much as some of the Big 12 games might make people believe.

I think your analysis is good. But you're looking at post 2000 numbers. A lot of our fanbase is still living in the 80s and 90s.

I looked a while back at scoring offense pretty in depth. Did it by decade. It's had huge swings up over those time frames.

 

[orangecuse]

Look at the recruiting rankings. They've been 5+ spots higher than us for a while. They also went against VanGorder.

 

[Cheriehoop]

It may very well be that you go a bit backwards before heading forwards.

Last year we scored 27.2 points per game , this year it is 29.0 points a differential of 1.8 points more points scored per game.

Defensively last year opponents averaged 31.0 points per game , this year it's 37.6 points or 6.6 points, a touchdown more allowed per game.

So this year our offense isn't scoring enough yet to make up for the defensive deficiencies so far. A new scheme, a new coach - let's be patient but no need to bash or blame Shafer to make a positive point about Coach Babers either. No matter who the coach is, it will be a time consuming process not an immediate turn around as HCDB warned. It's going to be sweat and tears not a magic wand.

 

[Millhouse]

It's funny you should mention that, because this morning I was looking at some defensive stats to see how this year's points allowed compared historically, and how much more scoring there was overall in college football.

Surprisingly, at least to me, the idea that "nobody plays defense anymore" isn't really true. At least not based on points allowed per game.

In 2003 (the furthest back teamrankings.com goes), allowing 21.5 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 25.8 PPG. Allowing more than 32 put you in the bottom 25%.

In 2009, allowing 22.2 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 26.5 PPG. Allowing more than 30.7 put you in the bottom 25%.

In 2015, allowing 23.0 PPG or less put you in the top 25% of scoring defense. The median was 27.8 PPG. Allowing more than 34.1 put you in the bottom 25%.

Scoring hasn't gone up as much as some of the Big 12 games might make people believe.

Factories

Why can't we be real good on O and D? I reject the idea that it's ok to be bad on defense as long as the offense is real good. Some people make it sound like being bad on D is part of the offensive plan.

Good luck naming many non factories that can do both consistently

 

[rrlbees]

Good luck naming many non factories that can do both consistently

What do you consider consistently? I'm not saying we should have a top 20 offense and too 20 defense. I'm saying people excusing not playing good defense because we have a very good fast offense are nuts. I don't want to lose 48-40. I want to win 40-24.

 

[Millhouse]

What do you consider consistently? I'm not saying we should have a top 20 offense and too 20 defense. I'm saying people excusing not playing good defense because we have a very good fast offense are nuts. I don't want to lose 48-40. I want to win 40-24.

top 25 scoring offense and top half scoring defense sounds good. How many teams do that?

Non factories have to make unpleasant choices. Nincompoops here like to think that means that I think having the worst defense didn't hurt you.

 

[rrlbees]

top 25 scoring offense and top half scoring defense sounds good. How many teams do that? Non factories have to make unpleasant choices. Nincompoops here like to think that means that I think having the worst defense didn't hurt you.

My view isn't points necessarily or even total yardage. That's going to be a product of playing faster and more possessions for both teams. My metric would be yards per play.

 

[GoSU96]

top 25 scoring offense and top half scoring defense sounds good. How many teams do that?

Non factories have to make unpleasant choices. Nincompoops here like to think that means that I think having the worst defense didn't hurt you.

Why? It's not like there's a salary cap. Style of play choices can impact how the other side does obviously but you don't have to sacrifice one thing for the other.

 

[anomander]

Why can't we be real good on O and D? I reject the idea that it's ok to be bad on defense as long as the offense is real good. Some people make it sound like being bad on D is part of the offensive plan.

Define good? Statistically I don't think the defense will ever be better than the offense. I think the key is to implement a defense that best supports the offense. I don't ever see Babers relying on his defense to win games. That's just the way CFB has trended.

 

[MikeSU02]

We've been bad or, at best, mediocre for a decade and a half. Almost a generation.

Babers has been completely above board with his assessment.

If you are surprised about any of the results with our resources, players and with our injuries, you need to take a step back and re-evaluate things.

We argue about if Dwight Freeney is a HoFer for the NFL... Consider the last time we were objectively good was his last year at Syracuse.

 

[rrlbees]

Define good? Statistically I don't think the defense will ever be better than the offense. I think the key is to implement a defense that best supports the offense. I don't ever see Babers relying on his defense to win games. That's just the way CFB has trended.

Oh I don't think the defense will ever be better than the offense. But what do you mean by a defense that supports the offense? I don't get the correlation. Unless your saying the offense needs rest from playing so fast so we are better off having a defense that allows the other team to have long drives. I disagree with that too. I'd rather have a defense that gets a lot of 3 and outs.

 

[rrlbees]

We've been bad or, at best, mediocre for a decade and a half. Almost a generation. Babers has been completely above board with his assessment. If you are surprised about any of the results with our resources, players and with our injuries, you need to take a step back and re-evaluate things. We argue about if Dwight Freeney is a HoFer for the NFL... Consider the last time we were objectively good was his last year at Syracuse.

We've been bad in general as a team for that long. But the defense alone seems epically bad.

 

[MikeSU02]

We've been bad in general as a team for that long. But the defense alone seems epically bad.

I'm as frustrated as anyone with the special team errors and the defense (not the T2, specifically, the overall performance).

But those complaints are stomping out a cigarette in the middle of a forest fire.

Babers has much bigger issues to focus on. Yes, we need to get the small things right, but he needs to be able to sell a program that is stuck in the muck to recruits, donors and fans.

We've been hit hard with injuries on defense and have played the guy who is going to win the Heisman and a team with NFL draft picks all over the field.

it sucks. No doubt. D could be better. But we need to focus on restoring the program first and foremost. The D will come along after. Babers knows this.

 

[Millhouse]

Why? It's not like there's a salary cap. Style of play choices can impact how the other side does obviously but you don't have to sacrifice one thing for the other.

There is a salary cap on coaches in essence. And if your defense just gets smoked by a great offense all the time, they're not likely to be as well prepared as some factory defense that can get away with a middle of the road offensive system

This isn't just theoretical , there are plenty of schools out there to look at. Who is good both consistently other than factories?

 

[Millhouse]

My view isn't points necessarily or even total yardage. That's going to be a product of playing faster and more possessions for both teams. My metric would be yards per play.

Mine too. You're not going to find non factories that fit your criteria

 

[rrlbees]

Mine too. You're not going to find non factories that fit your criteria

What is my criteria? Since its yards per play, that decouples the defense from the offense. Being 127th in the country at 7.6 ypp and worse than forever is not acceptable. 6.0 would be a nice initial goal going forward.