mcw and the nba

[conradical]

everyone seems to think that mcw is definitely leaving after this season. my question is this: if he knew all along that he was going to enter the draft following just one season where he logged serious playing time, then why did he choose su?

he had to have realized that he wasn't going to play much given the team's depth at the guard position in 2011/12, so why didn't he go to another big-time school where he would've been the focal point of the offense, and then leave after his freshman year?

did he somehow get THAT much better between his freshman and sophomore years?

 

[strumpfasaurus]

everyone seems to think that mcw is definitely leaving after this season. my question is this: if he knew all along that he was going to enter the draft following just one season where he logged serious playing time, then why did he choose su?

he had to have realized that he wasn't going to play much given the team's depth at the guard position in 2011/12, so why didn't he go to another big-time school where he would've been the focal point of the offense, and then leave after his freshman year?

did he somehow get THAT much better between his freshman and sophomore years?

I believe we got him when he was a sophomore or junior and only a two star recruit. He then blew up and became a mcdonalds all American.

 

[Solitude]

I think many have felt that MCW was a special player since his commitment. He is a physical specimen. Not many people have his height and length at the guard spot. And damn does he have lift.

His coming out party was the MCAA game where he crushed the skills competition with his syracuse haircut sorry Noel, but you are an unoriginal copycat(wasn't even as good either).

He showed brief glimpses of greatness last season. I don't think his growth was a surprise to anyone.

 

[rrlbees]

Waiters was not going to be invited back.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[Melancer46]

I believe we got him when he was a sophomore or junior and only a two star recruit. He then blew up and became a mcdonalds all American.

I didn't really follow his recruiting, but I remember reading an article this year where he talked about his commitment to Syracuse.

Just found it.

"As it grew closer to signing day for Carter-Williams, Hart warned him that sticking with Syracuse would probably mean accepting less playing time than he'd been accustomed to as a freshman because of the upperclassmen ahead of him in the rotation. Jardine and Triche had been rotation players their whole careers and starters the season before Carter-Williams arrived, while Waiters had flashed NBA-caliber talent as a freshman coming off the bench.
"One of the big reasons I chose to come here was I knew the practices would be really competitive and I'd get a lot better myself," Carter-Williams said. "I knew I was going to have to wait a little bit, but I thought I was going to get more playing time. It was harder than I expected."

 

[jvbj01]

Waiters was not going to be invited back.

Sent using my Commodore 64

I find it hard to believe JB would not let Waiters come back if he wanted to.


Go Cuse!

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Waiters was not going to be invited back.

Sent using my Commodore 64

This.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

 

[sheaj]

I find it hard to believe JB would not let Waiters come back if he wanted to.


Go Cuse!

I believe it was in reference to Waiters' Sophomore year... MCW's freshman year. Of course Dion woul have been welcomed back for this season.

 

[CusefanATL]

I think many have felt that MCW was a special player since his commitment.

that isnt true.

i specifically remember a lot of people wondering if our recruiting was falling off when he committed. people criticized boeheim for taking a flyer so early and questioning his position.

IIRC, a few of the board Godfathers (maybe it was bees) went out of their way to say he would be special and that he was going to be a tall PG in the mold of Z Sims at the top of the zone.

He then blew up in 1 of the summers and became a 5 star recruit.

 

[Tobias Funke]

I agree with a lot of what is said here. Bottomline is MCW wasn't on the NBA radar early in recruiting, and to his credit thought that he could compete for playing time. That is a winner's attitude.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I find it hard to believe JB would not let Waiters come back if he wanted to.


Go Cuse!

I think people didn't think Waiters would accept the conditions that JB was laying out. That Dion would not start, that Dion would have to play defense, and that Dion would not whine about it. It seemed like a long shot that the immature frosh Dion would accept those conditions. He grew up a lot, accepted a tough deal, honored it, and it looks to have really paid off.

 

[CiceroCuse]

I think people didn't think Waiters would accept the conditions that JB was laying out. That Dion would not start, that Dion would have to play defense, and that Dion would not whine about it. It seemed like a long shot that the immature frosh Dion would accept those conditions. He grew up a lot, accepted a tough deal, honored it, and it looks to have really paid off.

He turned out to be one of the more NBA ready players JB has had both in maturity level as well physical ability.

 

[asj410]

On the other hand, didn't CTO say Dion cut ties with Scoop as soon as he got drafted? Kind of a dick move.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

He turned out to be one of the more NBA ready players JB has had both in maturity level as well physical ability.

I disagree with your maturity statement, he certainly isn't what I call mature! He complains a lot and pouts. If he stayed until his Sr year, he could be special, right now he is a kid with 60/40 potential and skill.

 

[SoBeCuse]

MCW has a lot of work to do in order to not be a D-League lifetime player, imo. I am not knocking the D-League either. Just look at the D-League All Star rosters. Some former college studs. He can't shoot consistently, has poor court mannerisms at times, he is scrawny, and I question his footspeed at the next level. Will he move his feet defensively at the next level?

 

[CusefanATL]

On the other hand, didn't CTO say Dion cut ties with Scoop as soon as he got drafted? Kind of a dick move.

hmmm... that would be interesting.

also see a lot of weird cryptic posts from scoops twitter about MJ's daughter about her cheating. I always wondered what happened. Still wonder what happened.

Ah, the joys and creepiness of twitter.

 

[kirbivore]

On the other hand, didn't CTO say Dion cut ties with Scoop as soon as he got drafted? Kind of a dick move.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

90% of kids are better off leaving than staying for that extra season... imagine if Austin Rivers had stayed in school another year? More game film of him to put doubt in NBA teams minds. Go while you are guaranteed to be a first rounder.

if Dion stayed another year, he would have shot himself out of the lottery most likely. He should give Boeheim half his salary for giving him such limited minutes that soph year. If Boeheim had let him play 35 mpg, Dion wouldn't have looked as good.

 

[HoustonCuse]

90% of kids are better off leaving than staying for that extra season... imagine if Austin Rivers had stayed in school another year? More game film of him to put doubt in NBA teams minds. Go while you are guaranteed to be a first rounder.

if Dion stayed another year, he would have shot himself out of the lottery most likely. He should give Boeheim half his salary for giving him such limited minutes that soph year. If Boeheim had let him play 35 mpg, Dion wouldn't have looked as good.

I find this to be a terrible assessment. People love to act like the goal is to somehow trick NBA GMs into drafting you in the lottery. That staying one millisecond past the moment you have tricked that first guy is too long. This entire argument is based on the idea that no player is truly good enough or works hard enough to be a legit lottery pick.

Under this logic, LeBron would not have been a lottery pick if he went to college. Riiiight.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I find this to be a terrible assessment. People love to act like the goal is to somehow trick NBA GMs into drafting you in the lottery. That staying one millisecond past the moment you have tricked that first guy is too long. This entire argument is based on the idea that no player is truly good enough or works hard enough to be a legit lottery pick.

Under this logic, LeBron would not have been a lottery pick if he went to college. Riiiight.

I think it goes without saying that guys like Lebron would go in the lottery regardless of anything, no?

But for the most part, my point is...in most drafts, the difference between the guy who goes #8 and the guy who goes #30 can be very small. How your people handle you and how and when you leave school plays a huge part in where you get selected. You have to get someone to take a leap of faith on you.

Sometimes, guys just build up too much game tape and play themselves out of being a first round pick. I bet if KJo left after his soph year, someone would have taken him in round 1 and he would have had a contract. So yes...part of it is somewhat "fooling" someone into taking a chance on you. There aren't many sure things anymore.

 

[dasher]

Yet, most on this very board were upset in Dion's frosh year that we hadn't taken selby.

 

[Knicks411]

I find this to be a terrible assessment. People love to act like the goal is to somehow trick NBA GMs into drafting you in the lottery. That staying one millisecond past the moment you have tricked that first guy is too long. This entire argument is based on the idea that no player is truly good enough or works hard enough to be a legit lottery pick.

Under this logic, LeBron would not have been a lottery pick if he went to college. Riiiight.

No, but I think the idea is that the longer you play and the more tape teams have on you, the easier it is to find flaws (because everyone, save for the Lebrons of the world, have significant flaws.

That's obviously not a universal thing, guys can stay in school and improve their draft stock, or even stay in school and maintain it. But I think once you have proven yourself as a lottery talent, it seems that more often than not the guys who stick around for that extra year end up having their draft stock hurt more often than helped. Especially because there is always a new class of raw freshmen who have lots of potential who are ready to be drafted.

 

[RF2044]

MCW has a lot of work to do in order to not be a D-League lifetime player, imo. I am not knocking the D-League either. Just look at the D-League All Star rosters. Some former college studs. He can't shoot consistently, has poor court mannerisms at times, he is scrawny, and I question his footspeed at the next level. Will he move his feet defensively at the next level?

Hoo boy...

This is going to sound like a knock, but I think I agree with you in terms of his game and physical maturity [or relative lack therof] RIGHT NOW. Doesn't mean that won't change.

I've been pretty hard on our point guards throughout the years on this forum, in large part because many of them play erratically and don't always do the things lead guards do to make their teams "better." In some cases, that's an experiential thing. Scoop was infuriating at times with some of the unforced mistakes--and I am way more lenient on errors of commission than those of omission. For example, a PG who makes a nice lead pass that just is out of reach of a streaking player on a fast break that they just can't quite catch up with I tend not to get upset about as someone forcing an ill advised lob pass or leave their feet with nowhere to go.

Make no mistake: MCW is a good player, and his best basketball is ahead of him. But he is far from the transcendent talent that some billed him as earlier in the year, when he was taking apart the easier opponents on our schedule. Even then, there were tendencies he had where I suspected that he would have difficulty getting away with some of those passes against higher quality opponents. And I think right now, at his current stage on the developmental curve, teams are exploiting his shooting limitations / inconsistency. That's something that would improve given another off-season of development; ditto his lead guard aptitude, with a whole year of starts under his belt.

But MCW is a 21 year old sophomore, there's no way I expect him to come back. Also factor in the weak draft class, and it is almost a no-brainer for him to come out. Sucks, but its reality.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Hoo boy...

This is going to sound like a knock, but I think I agree with you in terms of his game and physical maturity [or relative lack therof] RIGHT NOW. Doesn't mean that won't change.

I've been pretty hard on our point guards throughout the years on this forum, in large part because many of them play erratically and don't always do the things lead guards do to make their teams "better." In some cases, that's an experiential thing. Scoop was infuriating at times with some of the unforced mistakes--and I am way more lenient on errors of commission than those of omission. For example, a PG who makes a nice lead pass that just is out of reach of a streaking player on a fast break that they just can't quite catch up with I tend not to get upset about as someone forcing an ill advised lob pass or leave their feet with nowhere to go.

Make no mistake: MCW is a good player, and his best basketball is ahead of him. But he is far from the transcendent talent that some billed him as earlier in the year, when he was taking apart the easier opponents on our schedule. Even then, there were tendencies he had where I suspected that he would have difficulty getting away with some of those passes against higher quality opponents. And I think right now, at his current stage on the developmental curve, teams are exploiting his shooting limitations / inconsistency. That's something that would improve given another off-season of development; ditto his lead guard aptitude, with a whole year of starts under his belt.

But MCW is a 21 year old sophomore, there's no way I expect him to come back. Also factor in the weak draft class, and it is almost a no-brainer for him to come out. Sucks, but its reality.

Good stuff RF. Its hard for me to see super stardom ahead for MCW with his jump shot and lack of lateral quickness. However, his size will keep him employed on an NBA bench for at least a couple of go-rounds. He has always reminded me of a 35% less dynamic Shawn Livingston (pre injury).

 

[moqui]

But MCW is a 21 year old sophomore, there's no way I expect him to come back. Also factor in the weak draft class, and it is almost a no-brainer for him to come out. Sucks, but its reality.

yep . . . his age is the the key factor. it makes it almost certain that he can only hurt himself by coming back - as a 22 year old who would be 23 before he played his first pro game, he would almost certainly slide to the back half of the first round.

unless he has a terrible stretch run and post season . . . and nobody wants to wish for that, do they?