Mike Hopkins and UW

[RF2044]

Great post. Jw actually has a very easy and simple choice. Hop Red or Gmac. Those are the only options unless he is insane. You dont crap on Jims floor after 50 years when jim is and has been all about loyalty. Seriously. Short of another scandal JW is 100% keeping this in the family as he should.

The only thing that's "insane" is that you actually believe what you wrote.

 

[kcsu]

The only thing that's "insane" is that you actually believe what you wrote.

How about a friendly wager. 1k. Ill take my insane in house bet. You take an outsider. Put your money where your sanity is.

 

[Newhouser]

Great post. Jw actually has a very easy and simple choice. Hop Red or Gmac. Those are the only options unless he is insane. You dont crap on Jims floor after 50 years when jim is and has been all about loyalty. Seriously. Short of another scandal JW is 100% keeping this in the family as he should.

I believe you are correct in how it will end up, and I agree as to what will be the rational for tabbing the next choice. That said, I don't like the reason why. Syracuse University is the family that needs to start making these calls, and retaking control of the program.

 

[kcsu]

I believe you are correct in how it will end up, and I agree as to what will be the rational for tabbing the next choice. That said, I don't like the reason why. Syracuse University is the family that needs to start making these calls, and retaking control of the program.

In spite of my madness or possibly because of it i completely see RF2s position. I necessarily agree with it but i respect it.
I just think that its very risky to throw out 50 years of continuity on an outsider when its a total crap shoot as to if they will do better.

 

[CousCuse]

Hop was doing great at UW until covid hit and killed his ability to recruit cross country.

 

[nyucuse]

Still have great facilities, tradition, fanbase, pretty good recruiting location reasonably close to a lot of b-ball hotbeds, and in what’s traditionally a great league.

Everything is in place for a strong coach that can recruit to come and win here, IMO. We just haven’t been getting the same level talent recently, but that can be fixed IMO.

Yup. This talk of a Southern conference is nonsense. That means nothing. No kid is saying 'Sure the ACC is historically the best league in the country, and SU has been one of the best programs in the country for 40+ years, has the biggest stadium in the country, but ooh the conference is Southern'.

What does even mean? We just need a good young coach. Everything is lined up to be very strong - all comes down to who is on the sidelines

 

[Willy75]

Hop was doing great at UW until covid hit and killed his ability to recruit cross country.

Just as easy to say he did great at recruiting until he timed out on the connections he made while at SU. Who knows.

 

[MSOrange]

Yup. This talk of a Southern conference is nonsense. That means nothing. No kid is saying 'Sure the ACC is historically the best league in the country, and SU has been one of the best programs in the country for 40+ years, has the biggest stadium in the country, but ooh the conference is Southern'.

What does even mean? We just need a good young coach. Everything is lined up to be very strong - all comes down to who is on the sidelines

Totally agree. Seems like we should at least try different solutions before we throw up our hands and say this isn't going to work just because of a southern conference.

 

[CousCuse]

Just as easy to say he did great at recruiting until he timed out on the connections he made while at SU. Who knows.

UW is remote from any recruiting area and he couldn't visit or have recruits visit.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Even with our mediocrity the past 7 years we still have the 5th best winning percentage in the conference since we joined and are 4th in tournament success. That's very far from being an also ran. Some of you are talking like we aren't ever competitive which is false. Every school outside of Duke, UNC, and UVA would trade places with us in that period. Even Louisville who has done nothing of note since Pitino was canned.

 

[Fat tire 13]

Even with our mediocrity the past 7 years we still have the 5th best winning percentage in the conference since we joined and are 4th in tournament success. That's very far from being an also ran. Some of you are talking like we aren't ever competitive which is false. Every school outside of Duke, UNC, and UVA would trade places with us in that period. Even Louisville who has done nothing of note since Pitino was canned.

It comes down to the "high floor, low ceiling" vs. "low floor, high ceiling" debate.

The stats you reference illustrate the streak of winning seasons and outperforming in March Madness. We are blessed to have avoided losing seasons like many other of our "peer" programs. It's impressive and should be appreciated

However, if you look at the long term, there is a clear step lower since our first year in ACC with CJ, Ennis, etc. The past 8 years do not compare to the previous 3 decades.

In the past 8 years...(includes this year)
-Never won more than 10 games in ACC
-Never been ranked higher than 8 in March Madness, and double digit seed 3 times
-Never finished season ranked in top 25, and 4 seasons never cracking top 25

Before then, we were consistently ranked, and consistently a top 5 seed in March Madness

I think the fans want to get back to the higher ceiling, but may be unrealistic thinking it will be a linear path. Almost all of us have literally never witnessed a losing season

For the succession debate, I agree in house is the default option. One caveat could be a losing season, which would poke some holes in the high floor argument. I would simply hope JW would explore all options, even if the end result is in house. It is fair to be worried they won't look outside for a hire

 

[Willy75]

UW is remote from any recruiting area and he couldn't visit or have recruits visit.

Romar did fairly well.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It comes down to the "high floor, low ceiling" vs. "low floor, high ceiling" debate.

The stats you reference illustrate the streak of winning seasons and outperforming in March Madness. We are blessed to have avoided losing seasons like many other of our "peer" programs. It's impressive and should be appreciated

However, if you look at the long term, there is a clear step lower since our first year in ACC with CJ, Ennis, etc. The past 8 years do not compare to the previous 3 decades.

In the past 8 years...(includes this year)
-Never won more than 10 games in ACC
-Never been ranked higher than 8 in March Madness, and double digit seed 3 times
-Never finished season ranked in top 25, and 4 seasons never cracking top 25

Before then, we were consistently ranked, and consistently a top 5 seed in March Madness

I think the fans want to get back to the higher ceiling, but may be unrealistic thinking it will be a linear path. Almost all of us have literally never witnessed a losing season

For the succession debate, I agree in house is the default option. One caveat could be a losing season, which would poke some holes in the high floor argument. I would simply hope JW would explore all options, even if the end result is in house. It is fair to be worried they won't look outside for a hire

We finished last year ranked 25th.

I get most of what you are saying, but there's been a lot of exaggeration calling us an also ran or a cute story in March. People are angry with the regular season results, but calling tournament wins a fluke. I really don't think making the sweet 16 that many times as a double digit seed is a fluke.

Once, yes. Two, maybe? 3 times is a trend.

It's fair to say we have underperformed in the regular season while also not exaggerating how bad things are. There is a middle ground. The chicken little self loathing sht deserves to be called out.

 

[RF2044]

How about a friendly wager. 1k. Ill take my insane in house bet. You take an outsider. Put your money where your sanity is.

I don't gamble.

In spite of my madness or possibly because of it i completely see RF2s position. I necessarily agree with it but i respect it.
I just think that its very risky to throw out 50 years of continuity on an outsider when its a total crap shoot as to if they will do better.

Here's the thing -- you're throwing Mike Hopkins out there as a clear choice, as if the ineptitude that's gotten exposed during his tenure at UW doesn't matter. Just to put the order of magnitude of the debacle in perspective:

• In 2020, he went 5-13 in conference and finished in 12th place out of 12 teams... with two first round draft picks on the team!
• He followed that up with a 5-21 overall record, that included going 4-16 in conference, finishing 11th out of 12 teams
• This year, they are 5-5, have already suffered some embarrassing losses, and are trending for another cellar dweller conference finish

Remove the name "Hopkins," and our fanbase would revolt if somebody with that track record was hired. And justifiably so, because he's demonstrated that he doesn't have the chops to succeed at a P5 program at this stage of his coaching career. I don't believe that he'll emerge as a valid candidate not just here, but for ANY P5 head coaching position until he does a rehabilitation stint somewhere, most likely the NBA.

I love Mike Hopkins as a person, and I have tremendous respect for his contributions to the program as both a player and a coach. But this isn't a lifetime achievement award -- it's a high profile position in a performance oriented profession.

And sadly, Mike's substantially more qualified than either of your other two "simple" choices, Red or GMac -- who are partially responsible for the downturn the program is experiencing.

The sun will continue to rise when Jim Boeheim retires. When he does, the University will celebrate him in perpetuity, ESPN will show images of him every game we're televised and talk reverentially about his accomplishments, and the fanbase will reminisce about the national championship, the good 'ol days of the 80s / 90s when we were recruiting like gangbusters and a perennial top 10 team, and the "golden era" of SU hoops in the early 2010's when we had two #1 seeds in a 3 year span.

The AD doesn't need to make a "continuity hire" to honor Jim's legacy. The program is in decline -- there's very little incentive for continuity. Which is why our AD won't confine himself to a group of unqualified candidates, or artificially pretend that past ties to the program is a more important evaluative criteria than a successful coaching track record.

 

[kcsu]

I don't gamble.



Here's the thing -- you're throwing Mike Hopkins out there as a clear choice, as if the ineptitude that's gotten exposed during his tenure at UW doesn't matter. Just to put the order of magnitude of the debacle in perspective:

• In 2020, he went 5-13 in conference and finished in 12th place out of 12 teams... with two first round draft picks on the team!
• He followed that up with a 5-21 overall record, that included going 4-16 in conference, finishing 11th out of 12 teams
• This year, they are 5-5, have already suffered some embarrassing losses, and are trending for another cellar dweller conference finish

Remove the name "Hopkins," and our fanbase would revolt if somebody with that track record was hired. And justifiably so, because he's demonstrated that he doesn't have the chops to succeed at a P5 program at this stage of his coaching career. I don't believe that he'll emerge as a valid candidate not just here, but for ANY P5 head coaching position until he does a rehabilitation stint somewhere, most likely the NBA.

I love Mike Hopkins as a person, and I have tremendous respect for his contributions to the program as both a player and a coach. But this isn't a lifetime achievement award -- it's a high profile position in a performance oriented profession.

And sadly, Mike's substantially more qualified than either of your other two "simple" choices, Red or GMac -- who are partially responsible for the downturn the program is experiencing.

The sun will continue to rise when Jim Boeheim retires. When he does, the University will celebrate him in perpetuity, ESPN will show images of him every game we're televised and talk reverentially about his accomplishments, and the fanbase will reminisce about the national championship, the good 'ol days of the 80s / 90s when we were recruiting like gangbusters and a perennial top 10 team, and the "golden era" of SU hoops in the early 2010's when we had two #1 seeds in a 3 year span.

The AD doesn't need to make a "continuity hire" to honor Jim's legacy. The program is in decline -- there's very little incentive for continuity. Which is why our AD won't confine himself to a group of unqualified candidates, or artificially pretend that past ties to the program is a more important evaluative criteria than a successful coaching track record.

Ok

 

[DoctorBombay]

UW is remote from any recruiting area and he couldn't visit or have recruits visit.

He had the same limitations as everyone else. I love Hop but the bottom line is he just hasn’t done a good job at UW. The results speak for themselves- no excuses, just results. And honestly, he’d probably say the same thing if asked.

 

[DoctorBombay]

It comes down to the "high floor, low ceiling" vs. "low floor, high ceiling" debate.

The stats you reference illustrate the streak of winning seasons and outperforming in March Madness. We are blessed to have avoided losing seasons like many other of our "peer" programs. It's impressive and should be appreciated

However, if you look at the long term, there is a clear step lower since our first year in ACC with CJ, Ennis, etc. The past 8 years do not compare to the previous 3 decades.

In the past 8 years...(includes this year)
-Never won more than 10 games in ACC
-Never been ranked higher than 8 in March Madness, and double digit seed 3 times
-Never finished season ranked in top 25, and 4 seasons never cracking top 25

Before then, we were consistently ranked, and consistently a top 5 seed in March Madness

I think the fans want to get back to the higher ceiling, but may be unrealistic thinking it will be a linear path. Almost all of us have literally never witnessed a losing season

For the succession debate, I agree in house is the default option. One caveat could be a losing season, which would poke some holes in the high floor argument. I would simply hope JW would explore all options, even if the end result is in house. It is fair to be worried they won't look outside for a hire

Good points all around. I too believe JW goes in-house first, and i believe he almost has to. And unless he’s ready to bypass the whole “SU family on the sidelines”-thingy, which I’m pretty certain he’s not, he’s not going to look far & wide for a new HC.
Now if Red or GMac screws up, then it opens the door and all bets are off. But first of all, you’ve gotta give Red his shot. JMHO

 

[DilemaCuse]

My feelings are JB had his opportunity to pick his successor and have an exit plan.

And then he didnt stick to that plan. Yeah, maybe the NCAA penalties threw a bit of a fork into it but he wasnt going to hold up his end of it, and his successor saw that and bolted for UW.

With the program in decline, this needs to be JW's hire not JBs.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Vorony]

When’s the last time Hop’s team played a game? Seems like they’ve been paused since Thanksgiving.

EDIT - looks like they had 2 games last week. Still feels like they’ve been paused for a long time though. 3 top 10 matchups cancelled or postponed in December.

 

[bozophobe]

Bright spot - some encouraging news from Dickie V under that.

 

[Mareiniss]

... looks like they had 2 games last week. ...

Oooff - the two games were a 19-point loss to a mediocre (3-and-4) Nevada team and a home loss to a bad (3-and-3) Winthrop team.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

How about a friendly wager. 1k. Ill take my insane in house bet. You take an outsider. Put your money where your sanity is.

The attendance we get for Cornell tonight will be equal to what we draw against Duke if one of the assistants is hired. The cupboard is bare too its not even worth considering when we have no depth or bench.

The next coach needs to land big recruits immediately and have good regular seasons. If that doesn't happen we will move on after 2 years.

 

[CousCuse]

He had the same limitations as everyone else. I love Hop but the bottom line is he just hasn’t done a good job at UW. The results speak for themselves- no excuses, just results. And honestly, he’d probably say the same thing if asked.

His program wasn't really established when the covid lockdowns started. The east coast recruiting ties he knew were very tentative about sending guys across the country. I look at his first 2 years as more indicative of his coaching abilities.

 

[GooseMutt]

The premise of my response is that UCLA basketball doesn’t lose coaches to schools like SU. In addition, if it was to even be considered by a coach, other factors would likely keep him at UCLA.
Of course, some folks on this board think Jay Wright might come to Syracuse.

Jay Wright makes over 6 million at Nova