More terrible coaching

[Alsacs]

Many of you don’t understand why Buddy doesn’t want to come back. JB’s situation is more fluid.

It’s already been said.
Buddy doesn’t want to comeback because he doesn’t want to break records playing 5 years.

Buddy coming back just continues the status quo as JB has shown he won’t change thus if he comes back it’s fair to assume it won’t change.
We will white knuckle around the bubble.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I mostly agree with this as it relates to the current team.

But I think it’s wrong to say boeheim has never developed guys. There is a very long history of players who have developed into much better players over their Syracuse careers. Unfortunately that history seems to have ended around when mike Hopkins left, IMO. Jesse Edwards I think is genuinely the only guy who has made a big leap in the last five years and even there it isn’t clear whether it’s just getting the opportunity.

Oshae brissett was really good as a freshman with one obvious hole in his game, he couldn’t finish. Somehow he got worse at that as a sophomore but now two years later is good enough to score consistently in the nba.

Ten years ago I don’t think that would have happened. CJ fair for example came in as a freshman and surprised as a garbage guy who couldn’t really shoot. He shot 40 percent from three as a junior. Scoop jardines biggest contribution as a freshman involved a meal card and he developed into a very good college point guard as an upperclassman. Andy Rautins was KILLED on this board for two plus years and turned into a borderline all American as a senior.

Even jerami grant, who I think is seen as a developmental failure, indisputably added to his game between in his two years here.

More recently, rakeem Christmas and gbinje both were massively better players when they left than when they came in.

I think you're talking about JB developing players in the macro sense, and Bulldog is talking about it in the context of Griff actually being the coach that does the work with Edwards to make him a better player.

It's not far fetched to believe JB just doesn't involve himself in direct, 1:1 player development anymore. Which maybe if you're recruiting better and winning more is something a coach can put entirely on the assistant coaches. But when you're a losing team and you decided in a crucial moment of a game that the guy you've been going to as a backup isn't actually trusted (after he had already proven himself in a close and late situation against Indiana), as the head coach you're accountable for not being involved enough in player development and putting your chances to win at risk.

 

[RoatanCuse]

100%. I also think he will be back and be his usual great coach self next season. the dynamics will be normal once his kids are gone.

Spof on.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They are in good shape. I want Gmac but Red get the Nod. Gmac get a big raise Devo gets hired and the Legacy continues.

Yeah, take our best recruiter off our staff and replace him with a guy with more TBT experience than coaching.

That's gonna turn things around.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It’s already been said.
Buddy doesn’t want to comeback because he doesn’t want to break records playing 5 years.

Buddy coming back just continues the status quo as JB has shown he won’t change thus if he comes back it’s fair to assume it won’t change.
We will white knuckle around the bubble.

Will we though? We're not white knuckling around the bubble right now.

 

[RoatanCuse]

The most unfortunate part of all of this is that, even with the disaster that this season has become, there’s a way this could’ve gone where the fans don’t turn on JB.

Imagine that we still have this poorly-constructed roster, with pieces that don’t fit and not enough depth. But, JB is willing to:

• Experiment with new lineups, including those that may not have his kids playing 35+ every game without question
• Admit publicly that he’s made mistakes in roster construction and in-game decisions, and doesn’t pass all the blame to (selected) players
• Say that he knows there have been problems and promises to make changes on-court (maybe some real offensive sets?) and off-court (changes to coaching/staff or basketball operations processes?)

If he did these things, I really think that he’d get a lot more support from the fans. The vast, vast majority really want him to succeed, and a touch of humility and recognition that his decisions haven’t worked would buy a lot of goodwill. A lot more fans would give him a chance to pull out of the skid, because he’d be acknowledging that there’s a skid to pull out of.

But without any of these happening, what hope do fans have that anything will ever change? His obstinance and deflection just makes it seem like he doesn’t realize that there are real issues with this team, and that everything would be great if Jesse just covered the corner 3 better.

I have no doubt that JB still really wants to win basketball games. But it increasingly seems like he’s unwilling to push himself one iota outside of his comfort zone to do so.

Please send this to JW. THE J.W.

 

[cuseguy]

I cant see Jim leaving after his first losing season.

Just wait until next year.

 

[Alsacs]

Will we though? We're not white knuckling around the bubble right now.

I am giving Boeheim the benefit of the doubt. Which he deserves.
We won’t be better than a bubble ish team though.

 

[Day2]

I think you're talking about JB developing players in the macro sense, and Bulldog is talking about it in the context of Griff actually being the coach that does the work with Edwards to make him a better player.

It's not far fetched to believe JB just doesn't involve himself in direct, 1:1 player development anymore. Which maybe if you're recruiting better and winning more is something a coach can put entirely on the assistant coaches. But when you're a losing team and you decided in a crucial moment of a game that the guy you've been going to as a backup isn't actually trusted (after he had already proven himself in a close and late situation against Indiana), as the head coach you're accountable for not being involved enough in player development and putting your chances to win at risk.

JB has been a CEO-type coach for a long time. It’s silly to dismiss him when it comes to player development simply because an assistant coach he hired and assigned to the task is doing the bulk of the work.

It’s also silly to then blame him for the players who don’t improve. Credit him for all of it or none of it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

JB has been a CEO-type coach for a long time. It’s silly to dismiss him when it comes to player development simply because an assistant coach he hired and assigned to the task is doing the bulk of the work.

It’s also silly to then blame him for the players who don’t improve. Credit him for all of it or none of it.

I think you missed the part where I said that approach can be fine depending on the results you're getting.

We're not getting those results. So that approach is part of the problem. I'm not blaming him for the player development. I'm blaming him for making decisions that are losing decisions because he claims he doesn't trust players he isn't developing. The issues interconnect.

 

[bozophobe]

Spof on.

Did you mean spot on or spoof on?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I am giving Boeheim the benefit of the doubt. Which he deserves.
We won’t be better than a bubble ish team though.

We're in uncharted territory. I can see the case for giving him the benefit of the doubt.

We haven't seen him ever have to dig himself out of a hole like this because he's never performed this poorly, though.

 

[cuseguy]

I am giving Boeheim the benefit of the doubt. Which he deserves.
We won’t be better than a bubble ish team though.

It’s going to require an infusion of talent, and I’m not talking about the incoming freshmen

 

[Day2]

I think you missed the part where I said that approach can be fine depending on the results you're getting.

We're not getting those results. So that approach is part of the problem. I'm not blaming him for the player development. I'm blaming him for making decisions that are losing decisions because he claims he doesn't trust players he isn't developing. The issues interconnect.

Oh, not disputing your posts. I was referring to Bulldog’s argument.

 

[Alsacs]

It’s going to require an infusion of talent, and I’m not talking about the incoming freshmen

If Buddy comes back that won’t happen IMO.

 

[cuseguy]

If Buddy comes back that won’t happen IMO.

I’ll be surprised. We’ll see.

 

[OrangeDW]

Negativity is rampant. It’s what people do. Getting old. Perhaps deserved. Becoming as much of a cesspool as the old Off Topic board was and that got yanked.

Honest question: what is there to be positive about right now in regards to this b-ball team and program?

 

[djcon57]

Honest question: what is there to be positive about right now in regards to this b-ball team and program?

We lose multiple great players in the offseason - “stop being negative”

We miss out on anyone worth anything in the portal - “stop being negative”

lose to Colgate - “stop being negative”

7-8 record - “stop being negative”

seems to be a pattern. The truth hurts sometimes and some posters have wanted to avoid the truth around here for awhile.

 

[Waltdods]

I think you're talking about JB developing players in the macro sense, and Bulldog is talking about it in the context of Griff actually being the coach that does the work with Edwards to make him a better player.

It's not far fetched to believe JB just doesn't involve himself in direct, 1:1 player development anymore. Which maybe if you're recruiting better and winning more is something a coach can put entirely on the assistant coaches. But when you're a losing team and you decided in a crucial moment of a game that the guy you've been going to as a backup isn't actually trusted (after he had already proven himself in a close and late situation against Indiana), as the head coach you're accountable for not being involved enough in player development and putting your chances to win at risk.

I think we are all saying the same thing here. I have no specific insight into what coach is doing what and certainly some folks here do. My point is just this: there was a time, a long time, where guys who played for a Jim Boeheim-helmed team mostly left as much better players than when they came in. We have now had maybe five classes in a row where you can’t say that, except perhaps with Jesse Edwards. I think when the critique gets stated as “boeheim has never developed players”, it is wrong. When the critique is “this program is in serious trouble and one, though not the only, problem is that it has ceased developing talent” then I think it’s right.

I do think the biggest problem is recruiting, but the lack of development is a strong number two. The lack of concern and attention to keeping guys in the program is up there too.

For these reasons, incidentally, I think the in-game stuff, even the playing jb3 at center yesterday, doesn’t matter all that much. No coach in America is making this collection of players into a top-25 team.

 

[kcsu]

Has been known in the past as one of the best in game coaches.

First 15 years or more he was known as a better recruiter than coach. At one point he was both. Now marginal recruiter still a good but not great coach

 

[sufandu]

I don't get the sentiment of some that things could get worse after a coaching change. So much of that bad we see is tied to recruiting for the zone. and not developing a bench.

Things could absolutely get worse. College basketball history is littered with those stories. It doesn't mean, however, that you stick with the status quo. If the belief by the AD is that JB can't/won't raise the level of the team beyond what it currently is, it's his job to make a change that will benefit the program at some point.

 

[kcsu]

Honest question: what is there to be positive about right now in regards to this b-ball team and program?

A fresh start is closer than it was yesterday

 

[DoctorBombay]

Negativity is rampant. It’s what people do. Getting old. Perhaps deserved. Becoming as much of a cesspool as the old Off Topic board was and that got yanked.

Sorry…but where we are now warrants this type of discussion, and anyone who’s read my posts knows I’m one of the biggest “anti-Negatoid” guys on this board.
As others have mentioned, this is not a one-year phenomenon that we’re now witnessing. This has been building for quite a while.
Frankly, I think the discussion has been sober and measured. We’re not yelling at one another because the subjects being discussed are backed by a track record and facts.
And right here I’ll add the obligatory disclaimer: ..” I’m a big JB fan and appreciate everything he’s done for the program, but blah blah blah”.
This is not mindless blather going on- we see we’re in trouble as a program, and there is serious, and very legitimate doubt that JB can get us out of it. JMHO

 

[two3zone]

I can assure you none of the coaches want to play zone. I’ve asked this question numerous numerous times. The exact answer I get is “straight man homie”. Just so everyone is aware

I wonder if that was Hops downfall at Washington. While they were doing well with quade when he was eligible, if he played man with that squad I wonder if they could’ve made the loss of quade a little easier. Not saying quade was some stud zone defender, but so many new younger guys, all extremely athletic and skilled.

 

[two3zone]

Honest question: what is there to be positive about right now in regards to this b-ball team and program?

That Jb is closer to 80 than 70 and a change is coming sooner than later?

It’s almost hard to believe our championship was 19 years ago.