NBA 2017-2018 thread

[Alsacs]

Well, hope you enjoy the dirt our wheels are kicking Cleveland/washington/toronto.

Hopefully the Celtics run away with the East early. Brad’s coaching and the team’s buying.

Celtics next 5 games are winnable before Golden State comes in for a TNT game.
@ Atlanta
Lakers
Charlotte
Toronto
@ Brooklyn

I think the Celtics could be 13-2 or at worst 11-4 going into that Warriors game.
Stevens is a top 5 coach.
They won’t beat a motivated LeBron in the playoffs but they could/should get to the ECF.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Based on my extremely shallow research, I noticed that his efficiency didn't really drop when Melo was off the court last year, so I thought the concern was a little overblown. I obviously didn't expect this.

He has 9 assists in 9 games this year, so there are definitely some things to work on. But he has the highest usage rate in the league and is carrying a 59% True shooting, so yeah.

Phil Jackson is a great coach, maybe the best ever, but let's never forget he seemed to want to trade KP.

I really think the only question mark on KP will be durability and health as the season moves forward. He's been spectacular thus far. I was actually impressed with some of Indiana's young pieces last night and shotting ability, looks like the OKC trade may have been a good one for them. Oladipo and Sabonis are both playing very well.

Best play of the game was Stephenson challenging Porzingis on the dunk. KP sent it back and was just laughing, surely you cant be serious Lance.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Celtics next 5 games are winnable before Golden State comes in for a TNT game.
@ Atlanta
Lakers
Charlotte
Toronto
@ Brooklyn

I think the Celtics could be 13-2 or at worst 11-4 going into that Warriors game.
Stevens is a top 5 coach.
They won’t beat a motivated LeBron in the playoffs but they could/should get to the ECF.

I think Stevens may be a top 2 coach. Other than Pop it's up for debate. I respect Kerr but he has so much talent. Who else?? If I am starting a team, sure you take Pop first but then who? I would take Stevens

 

[Trueblue25]

Celtics next 5 games are winnable before Golden State comes in for a TNT game.
@ Atlanta
Lakers
Charlotte
Toronto
@ Brooklyn

I think the Celtics could be 13-2 or at worst 11-4 going into that Warriors game.
Stevens is a top 5 coach.
They won’t beat a motivated LeBron in the playoffs but they could/should get to the ECF.

Wonder if there’s any real chance we make some moves if we keep improving up to the ASG. This Celtics team is looking scary with Brown and Tatum embracing their new roles.

 

[Alsacs]

Wonder if there’s any real chance we make some moves if we keep improving up to the ASG. This Celtics team is looking scary with Brown and Tatum embracing their new roles.

Celtics have a 8.5 million dollar exception they will use it.

Find a player on his last year that could help and they will do it.
The Celtics have enough depth in the back court right now. They could use a vet back up Tatum as he could hit a wall.
They have Morris, Obeleye, Yabusele behind Tatum.

They need another forward to replace Hayward.
If they had Hayward they take the Cavs to 7 games.
Next year though when LeBron goes west the Celtics are favorites in the East.

 

[Melancer46]

Based on my extremely shallow research, I noticed that his efficiency didn't really drop when Melo was off the court last year, so I thought the concern was a little overblown. I obviously didn't expect this.

He has 9 assists in 9 games this year, so there are definitely some things to work on. But he has the highest usage rate in the league and is carrying a 59% True shooting, so yeah.

Phil Jackson is a great coach, maybe the best ever, but let's never forget he seemed to want to trade KP.

If I remember right, Zach Lowe or someone like him did a breakdown of Porzingis' minutes without Melo and basically found that while he was technically more efficient without Melo, there was also evidence to suggest that he may struggle without Melo.

Edit: Found it! Not quite Zach Lowe, but it's 538.

How Will Porzingis And The Knicks Cope With Life After Melo?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Celtics have a 8.5 million dollar exception they will use it.

Find a player on his last year that could help and they will do it.
The Celtics have enough depth in the back court right now. They could use a vet back up Tatum as he could hit a wall.
They have Morris, Obeleye, Yabusele behind Tatum.

They need another forward to replace Hayward.
If they had Hayward they take the Cavs to 7 games.
Next year though when LeBron goes west the Celtics are favorites in the East.

I too believe the Celts will make a move here. Lot of chatter out there with Cousins to Wiz as well, which could be a game changer.

 

[Trueblue25]

Celtics have a 8.5 million dollar exception they will use it.

Find a player on his last year that could help and they will do it.
The Celtics have enough depth in the back court right now. They could use a vet back up Tatum as he could hit a wall.
They have Morris, Obeleye, Yabusele behind Tatum.

They need another forward to replace Hayward.
If they had Hayward they take the Cavs to 7 games.
Next year though when LeBron goes west the Celtics are favorites in the East.

Won’t happen but I wonder how Rudy Gay would’ve fit off the bench for the c’s.

 

[Alsacs]

Won’t happen but I wonder how Rudy Gay would’ve fit off the bench for the c’s.

Gay was backup if they didn’t get Hayward.
He doesn’t play D I don’t see him as a good fit with the Celtics.

 

[Alsacs]

I too believe the Celts will make a move here. Lot of chatter out there with Cousins to Wiz as well, which could be a game changer.

I can’t see how Washington would be able to trade for him.
They don’t have any really good assets and their cap is tied to 3 players Wall-Beal-Porter.

They would have to trade one of them to get Cousins.
Cleveland could give up their Nets pick and a contract for Cousins.
I don’t think they will though as LeBron is a FA and trading that pick is their future.

 

[Trueblue25]

Id take the boogie

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I can’t see how Washington would be able to trade for him.
They don’t have any really good assets and their cap is tied to 3 players Wall-Beal-Porter.

They would have to trade one of them to get Cousins.
Cleveland could give up their Nets pick and a contract for Cousins.
I don’t think they will though as LeBron is a FA and trading that pick is their future.

Yeah they would have to deal future picks with Porter at a minimum

 

[Knicks411]

If I remember right, Zach Lowe or someone like him did a breakdown of Porzingis' minutes without Melo and basically found that while he was technically more efficient without Melo, there was also evidence to suggest that he may struggle without Melo.

Edit: Found it! Not quite Zach Lowe, but it's 538.

How Will Porzingis And The Knicks Cope With Life After Melo?

Yeah but did you miss the part where I did extremely shallow research and it reinforced the point I wanted it to so thats enough for me?

I'm surprised I missed that article the first time, good read. Really, Porzingis has made such a leap this year that it's probably rendered all prior analysis meaningless.

 

[Melancer46]

Yeah but did you miss the part where I did extremely shallow research and it reinforced the point I wanted it to so thats enough for me?

I'm surprised I missed that article the first time, good read. Really, Porzingis has made such a leap this year that it's probably rendered all prior analysis meaningless.

100% haha. I've always loved Porzingis but I envisioned him as a guy that can be your anchor defensively and your #2 guy offensively. He's certainly been handling the #1 offensive duties A-OK so far this season.

 

[OrangeDW]

Remember when so many Knicks fans went nuts when they picked KP, because they wanted Justice Winslow? LOL.

That was an all time draft day booing, Stephen A Smith went nuts, etc. Wow. KP is averaging 30 + ppg and Justice is a 6 points, 5 boards, bricklaying role player.

 

[Knicks411]

100% haha. I've always loved Porzingis but I envisioned him as a guy that can be your anchor defensively and your #2 guy offensively. He's certainly been handling the #1 offensive duties A-OK so far this season.

It's kind of like he realized he can shoot over anyone in the league, so he just does that.

Next step will be passing though. That has to improve.

 

[Melancer46]

Remember when so many Knicks fans went nuts when they picked KP, because they wanted Justice Winslow? LOL.

That was an all time draft day booing, Stephen A Smith went nuts, etc. Wow. KP is averaging 30 + ppg and Justice is a 6 points, 5 boards, bricklaying role player.

I'm definitely not batting 1.000, but I was 100% right about this. I was in love with Porzingis and telling all my friends that are Knicks fans that he should be the guy they take if Phil were smart. They all wanted Winslow or Mudiay at the time and I kept telling them how awful those two would be and so far, that's exactly how it's played out.

On the flip side, I thought Okafor would be good, and while Philly certainly hasn't done him any favors, he's obviously been a disappointment.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm definitely not batting 1.000, but I was 100% right about this. I was in love with Porzingis and telling all my friends that are Knicks fans that he should be the guy they take if Phil were smart. They all wanted Winslow or Mudiay at the time and I kept telling them how awful those two would be and so far, that's exactly how it's played out.

On the flip side, I thought Okafor would be good, and while Philly certainly hasn't done him any favors, he's obviously been a disappointment.

I wanted Russell to somehow fall to the Knicks. Loved him. Thought he was the next Harden. Was totally fine with KP though.

Okafor can probably be a rotation player for someone, but his game is just so out of place in this era.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I wanted Russell to somehow fall to the Knicks. Loved him. Thought he was the next Harden. Was totally fine with KP though.

Okafor can probably be a rotation player for someone, but his game is just so out of place in this era.

Eh, I think that's a cop out. There's always room for a guy that can get easy back to the basket buckets. People just haven't figured out how to blend those skills in yet. If nothing else, post passing can be really valuable for spreading the floor.

 

[Knicks411]

Eh, I think that's a cop out. There's always room for a guy that can get easy back to the basket buckets. People just haven't figured out how to blend those skills in yet. If nothing else, post passing can be really valuable for spreading the floor.

Okafor is a really bad passer though.

I think Okafor can be a rotation player. But even the one thing he's supposed to be good at, he hasn't been that good at. His career shooting % is right around league average, 54%. He's not a good passer. He's not a good rebounder. He's not a good defender. He has some good post moves, but he's basically a 51% shooter and a below average FT shooter.

Now I get it, he's young, no need to write him off, he can probably improve his post scoring. But basically all he can do right now is score in the post, and he's not even that good at that.

There were 63 C who per ESPN played enough minutes to qualify for leaderboards last year. Okafor was 49th in assist rate, 43rd (higher rank is worse) in TO%, 58th in rebound%. Hell, he's supposed to be an efficient scorer; he was 50th in true shooting! He was 11th in usage rate, so that does mitigate it somewhat.

 

[Melancer46]

Eh, I think that's a cop out. There's always room for a guy that can get easy back to the basket buckets. People just haven't figured out how to blend those skills in yet. If nothing else, post passing can be really valuable for spreading the floor.

I think this is what Okafor is currently missing even moreso than his defense/rebounding issues. In today's NBA, if you're gonna be a back-to-the-basket kinda scorer, you gotta be able to pass out to shooters to force defenses to play you 1 on 1. His passing hasn't developed yet.

You can surround him with enough defense and rebounding to get around those issues IMO, but if he can't pass out of his post-ups, the one strength he can really bring to the table is basically negated.

As I mentioned before, Philly hasn't done him any favors. They've surrounded him with poor shooters/other centers and that simply will not work for him. But he's really gotta improve his passing.

 

[Melancer46]

Okafor is a really bad passer though.

I think Okafor can be a rotation player. But even the one thing he's supposed to be good at, he hasn't been that good at. His career shooting % is right around league average, 54%. He's not a good passer. He's not a good rebounder. He's not a good defender. He has some good post moves, but he's basically a 51% shooter and a below average FT shooter.

Now I get it, he's young, no need to write him off, he can probably improve his post scoring. But basically all he can do right now is score in the post, and he's not even that good at that.

There were 63 C who per ESPN played enough minutes to qualify for leaderboards last year. Okafor was 49th in assist rate, 43rd (higher rank is worse) in TO%, 58th in rebound%. Hell, he's supposed to be an efficient scorer; he was 50th in true shooting! He was 11th in usage rate, so that does mitigate it somewhat.

To be fair, I don't think a post scorer will ever be up there in terms of TS% anymore. A guy like DeAndre Jordan who dunks and does nothing else will always look like a more efficient scorer by that metric than a post scorer like Monroe, Kanter, and Okafor. The real value that Okafor (hopefully someday) brings that isn't captured by TS% is that you can potentially run the offense through him. Every team doesn't need this, but for example, if he plays with the 2nd unit and you just post him up every possession, (with improved passing) you'll probably get better shots out of your 2nd unit than you otherwise would.

 

[Knicks411]

To be fair, I don't think a post scorer will ever be up there in terms of TS% anymore. A guy like DeAndre Jordan who dunks and does nothing else will always look like a more efficient scorer by that metric than a post scorer like Monroe, Kanter, and Okafor. The real value that Okafor (hopefully someday) brings that isn't captured by TS% is that you can potentially run the offense through him. Every team doesn't need this, but for example, if he plays with the 2nd unit and you just post him up every possession, (with improved passing) you'll probably get better shots out of your 2nd unit than you otherwise would.

I get that, which is why i threw in his usage rate being pretty high. It's totally fair, I think Chandler had like a 70% true shooting on a usage less than half of Okafor's; they aren't playing the same role at all, you can't do a 1 to 1 comp. The problem is that he's a really bad passer and a poor rebounder too. So if scoring is truly the only thing you do, you need to do it really well. He definitely shouldn't be completely riding the pine like he is. There has to be a team that can use him for 15-20 per night.

he kinda reminds me of Eddy Curry.

 

[Alsacs]

Jayson Tatum is Paul Pierce 2.0 with more length.

He is a stud. Thank you Brooklyn and good job Ainge.

 

[MSOrange]

Jayson Tatum is Paul Pierce 2.0 with more length.

He is a stud. Thank you Brooklyn and good job Ainge.

I was much more excited about picking Tatum than I was Jaylen Brown last year. Both are playing well. Can't believe the steak the Celts have gone on after losing Gordon.