NCAA Final Four Games for April 2

[dasher]

It may have been 18 back then.

Really? I didn't know that. That would be even worse. When I entered Syracuse, it was 15. And we gave all 15. With a freshman team, you might be right.

 

[NineOneSeven]

2016 Lost to North Carolina 78-81

Coach K has reached 13 Final Fours to 12 for Wooden and you could say that is almost the equivalent of 13 national championships since Coach K had to win 4 games to get to the Final Four in his time, the same number Coach Wooden had to win to get the title in his time. So far Coach K is 14-8, with the losses by a total of 68 points. That hardly compares to the “Wizard of Westwood”. And Sam Gilbert might have helped them get there, but you can only go 21-3 against this level of competition by earning it on the court.

Typo

 

[SWC75]

I assume some of that is your words? It’s not necessarily about “bags”. It’s also about knowing what you can get when you go there. There’s a reason Knight wasn’t afraid to speak up.

The dark side of the UCLA basketball dynasty

The dark side of the UCLA basketball dynasty

www.latimes.com

What is in quotes is from the article. What I said is my interpretation of what the article says. That Wooden was already winning national titles when Gilbert showed up is a fact.

 

[longtimefan]

Don't also forget, they didn't seed teams back then. It was the committee picking the match ups. And often, there was no rhyme or reason.

It was still regionally-based for all of Wooden's career. UCLA always played in the West region. And only 1 team from each league made it. Independents, and there were a lot of them in the East, might have had an advantage getting in, because they didn't have to fight their way through a league.

UCLA would make the FF by beating the likes of Santa Clara/San Francisco/Long Beach State. One year toward the end of Wooden's run, Dayton was shipped out West, I assume because they couldn't find a 4th deserving team out there. I remember I was shocked when the Flyers almost beat UCLA--maybe a 2-5 point game, could have been in OT.

 

[SWC75]

It was still regionally-based for all of Wooden's career. UCLA always played in the West region. And only 1 team from each league made it. Independents, and there were a lot of them in the East, might have had an advantage getting in, because they didn't have to fight their way through a league.

UCLA would make the FF by beating the likes of Santa Clara/San Francisco/Long Beach State. One year toward the end of Wooden's run, Dayton was shipped out West, I assume because they couldn't find a 4th deserving team out there. I remember I was shocked when the Flyers almost beat UCLA--maybe a 2-5 point game, could have been in OT.

That's why my study focused on the Final Four, the best teams the rest of the country could provide. Wooden was 20-2, (21-3 if you count the third place game). K was 14-8. You're not going to get a better measure than that.

 

[SWC75]

I know you're just repeating what others have said but I love that one about how Wooden only had to win four games. yeah he would have really struggled with a 16 seed.

Make sure to read my conclusion, too.

 

[longtimefan]

He didn't have to win a post season tournament just to get in the NCAA tournament. And as we have discussed, he had some major advantages. To his credit, he was playing black players when the bigoted southern schools would not. The ACC didn't have a black player until Charlie Scott. So Wooden does deserve a lot of creit for not playing that sick game.

You are the one that brought age in to this discussion about the posters on this thread. Not me. I didn't give it a second thought. You made it an issue. Since you did, it became fair game. And as I thought, you really weren't around for his titles in the 60's. That is when the run was it's most prolific.

UCLA had black players several years before John Wooden became head coach. You may have heard of one of them--Jackie Robinson,

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I kind of know. 5 years ago in ObX, on a fishing charter, chatting w the first mate who is a Duke fan. Tells me Mrs k has dimentia...

It’s the other way around for my senior senator. Hes the one who needs a guide.

 

[dasher]

UCLA had black players several years before John Wooden became head coach. You may have heard of one of them--Jackie Robinson,

I didn't say he started it. Just that he played black players.

 

[bpo57]

It was still regionally-based for all of Wooden's career. UCLA always played in the West region. And only 1 team from each league made it. Independents, and there were a lot of them in the East, might have had an advantage getting in, because they didn't have to fight their way through a league.

UCLA would make the FF by beating the likes of Santa Clara/San Francisco/Long Beach State. One year toward the end of Wooden's run, Dayton was shipped out West, I assume because they couldn't find a 4th deserving team out there. I remember I was shocked when the Flyers almost beat UCLA--maybe a 2-5 point game, could have been in OT.

Ultimately though UCLA beat all comers. Nowadays if a team plays a soft schedule they eventually get exposed in the NCAAT. Strangely enough nobody ever exposed UCLA even when they got to the title game. Their average margin of victory in Wooden's ten national championship games was 14 points and they won all ten games. They weren't just winning titles, they were crushing teams. Kinda tough to do better than that.

 

[UpstateSM]

 

[Cusefan0307]

Great showing by the Duke students.

 

[Newhouser]

The Wooden stuff is interesting. I think it's safe to say he won without Gilbert early and won in great part due to Gilbert at the end...however the statement that UCLA was the only team cheating in the 60s and 70s is insane. Read Foul or anything on Moses Malone getting recruited. NC State and Maryland and Kentucky, and yes even woe is me Tark, all had their Gilbert's.

 

[longtimefan]

I didn't say he started it. Just that he played black players.

But he just continued the tradition. It would only be noteworthy if he had stopped recruiting Blacks.

 

[bpo57]

Never heard of Sam Gilbert I guess? Bobby Knight did.

"I have a lot of respect for Wooden as a coach, how he coached," Knight said. "He was a good coach. But from then on, and I don't mind saying it, I don't respect Wooden, because he allowed Sam Gilbert to do whatever it took to recruit kids.

Kinda tough to listen to Bob Knight wax poetic about the virtuousness of any college hoops coach given his track record. Wooden had more class in his left big toenail than Knight ever had.

Check out this rap sheet.

List of incidents involving Bob Knight

Here's a look at some of the outbursts over the years by Texas Tech basketball coach Bob...

www.chron.com

 

[longtimefan]

Ultimately though UCLA beat all comers. Nowadays if a team plays a soft schedule they eventually get exposed in the NCAAT. Strangely enough nobody ever exposed UCLA even when they got to the title game. Their average margin of victory in Wooden's ten national championship games was 14 points and they won all ten games. They weren't just winning titles, they were crushing teams. Kinda tough to do better than that.

I do believe that FF experience was one of UCLA's big advantages. Pretty much every year the Bruins had guys on the roster who had already been through the experience. Plus Wooden himself, who had been to a couple of FF's before they won in 1964.

And they had Alcindor and Walton.

 

[OrangeDW]

Great showing by the Duke students.

I guess making an impact in the SuperDome is a bit different than filling up a few rows in that rinky dink high school gym

 

[bpo57]

I do believe that FF experience was one of UCLA's big advantages. Pretty much every year the Bruins had guys on the roster who had already been through the experience. Plus Wooden himself, who had been to a couple of FF's before they won in 1964.

And they had Alcindor and Walton.

They did have those two guys but he won five titles without them.

Kinda like the Bum Phillips comment about Bear Bryant. "He could take his'n and beat your'n and then turn around and take your'n and beat his'n.

 

[bpo57]

I do believe that FF experience was one of UCLA's big advantages. Pretty much every year the Bruins had guys on the roster who had already been through the experience. Plus Wooden himself, who had been to a couple of FF's before they won in 1964.

And they had Alcindor and Walton.

I think that's a fair point. Of course the F4 back then was not the spectacle that it is today.

 

[CousCuse]

Why didn't Nova foul with 14 seconds left, they were down 6? I thought it was terrible coaching.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Does the toupee now go to the Smithsonian?

 

[Orange Barrel]

Check out this rap sheet.

List of incidents involving Bob Knight

Here's a look at some of the outbursts over the years by Texas Tech basketball coach Bob...

www.chron.com

1998 — Is fined $10,000 by the Big Ten for berating referee Ted Valentine, whose officiating Knight calls "the greatest travesty" he had seen in his coaching career.

I mean, I'd cut him a break on this one.

 

[bpo57]

But he just continued the tradition. It would only be noteworthy if he had stopped recruiting Blacks.

In 1947 Wooden had a black player (Clarence Walker) on his Indiana State team. That team was invited at the end of the year to the NAIA tournament in Kansas City under the condition that Walker not come with the team to the tournament. Wooden declined the tourney invite. The next year the team got the same invite under the same condition. Again Wooden declined but this time the NAIA relented and allowed Walker to play in the tournament. 1947.

 

[longtimefan]

In 1947 Wooden had a black player (Clarence Walker) on his Indiana State team. That team was invited at the end of the year to the NAIA tournament in Kansas City under the condition that Walker not come with the team to the tournament. Wooden declined the tourney invite. The next year the team got the same invite under the same condition. Again Wooden declined but this time the NAIA relented and allowed Walker to play in the tournament. 1947.

That's one of my very favorite years.

 

[kirbivore]

lol. When I need to find coach hating on a grand scale I come to this board. Everybody is dirty except our guy JB.

Much like the entire Syracuse athletic dept. the hoops team was sloppy and amateurish in their cheating.