Offensive line

[skurey]

How's our recruiting in this area?

 

[RF2044]

How's our recruiting in this area?

I like the raw materials in the pipeline, but this is definitely an area that needs to improve. And we'll under this coaching staff. Koda Martin is going to be a big loss next year, however.

 

[blizz]

I think we're going to be just fine. Talent has been good, not earth-shattering but definitely adequate. Depth chart is finally looking the way it should, they've rotated different guys in throughout the season with little drop-off. And I think we've got the right coach and staff in place to develop these guys. Will be ok.

 

[cusefan88]

Interior is good. Tackle is a huge issue. If Servais can make the move to LT that would help a lot.

 

[syr02esq]

Are we in the market for any transfers or Jucos?

OL is huge in this offensive system.

 

[sutomcat]

Are we in the market for any transfers or Jucos?

OL is huge in this offensive system.

Dino Babers has said publicly that it would be great if a ready to play grad transfer OT were to arrive. SU is definitely open to this if the right player has interest.

 

[supp]

Are we in the market for any transfers or Jucos?

OL is huge in this offensive system.

I may be imagining things but I think Babers said something about a transfer OT for next year during the signing day press conference. I don't know if they're still looking or they've already identified someone. I didn't get the impression he was talking about Tisdale, though.

 

[ottodaorange]

One thing should be pointed out before we lurch into future OL: the sight of a pulling K-Mart (yes I'm calling him that) booking down the field, at 6'6 300-something, looking for some a** to kick ... I'm really going to miss that.

Well, in addition to Tisdale, we recruited a 6'7 300 something that was a 4* from the city last year (Qadir White). Then we have a 6'8 300 something that was highly regarded by those on here last year (Mike Clark) that will be a R-Jr next year and then there are a couple of Davis's that will be sophs. Evan Adams, Carlos Vetorelli, Colin Byrne, Andreas Duerig, Airon Servais, Sam Heckel, and Will Froumy round out the OL. I think we will be all right, but it wouldn't hurt to have some more insurance.

 

[Xanadu]

I think OL should be the biggest concern heading into next year. The interior is solid as others have said, but OT will be the big question mark. I think the big question becomes will the new OTs step up or will the scheme need to adjust with Elmore spending more time further outside or more packages with Hackett or the kid from Baldwinsville. The interior running game should take a lot of pressure off, though. I think Dino only pulls the trigger on a grad transfer if it is the right fit.

 

[tep624]

I think OL should be the biggest concern heading into next year. The interior is solid as others have said, but OT will be the big question mark. I think the big question becomes will the new OTs step up or will the scheme need to adjust with Elmore spending more time further outside or more packages with Hackett or the kid from Baldwinsville. The interior running game should take a lot of pressure off, though. I think Dino only pulls the trigger on a grad transfer if it is the right fit.

It should be. But like LBer heading into last season, I'm confident it will get figured out to our satisfaction.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

I think the line will be ok. Adams, Heckel and Servais are a strong core. I have heard the defensive line say playing against Dakota Davis is a real chore. He is large, strong and extremely physical. I think that Vertello made the two deep as a freshman is a great sign. This group is really the key to next season. The transition to Devito will go much smoother if the line steps up. Eric’s mobility and strength hid the fact that the line play was better, but still not an upper echelon ACC unit.

 

[SUFan44]

It should be. But like LBer heading into last season, I'm confident it will get figured out to our satisfaction.

This might not be a very popular opinion, but overall I thought LB play was average to below average this season.

Guthrie had some moments and Shy did too, but overall I was underwhelmed with their play. Bad angles all over the place and allowed way too many big plays as a result. Not sure any would start for another Top 25 school.

Again, I know it’s not a popular opinion but I think this defense could use a playmaker or two at the position.

 

[reedny]

This might not be a very popular opinion, but overall I thought LB play was average to below average this season.

Guthrie had some moments and Shy did too, but overall I was underwhelmed with their play. Bad angles all over the place and allowed way too many big plays as a result. Not sure any would start for another Top 25 school.

Again, I know it’s not a popular opinion but I think this defense could use a playmaker or two at the position.

Off-thread, but this would have been a fair take the first half of the season when we were in nickel all the time - lots of problems, especially against the run, and (at least) two losses to show for it (Clemson and Pitt). But in the second half of the season, as Shy entered the starting lineup and Guthrie grew into the Mike role, I saw a huge improvement - the last few games our LB's were in the backfield on sweeps and were all over bubble screens.

I'm pumped that Shy's coming back - huge talent. I also like Richards at LB. Yes he can play DE. Heck you could put him out there at TE and RB, with his size and stunning field speed. But in Guthrie's slot watch out - he's strong enough to play off blocks and fast enough to drop into coverage.

Don't forget the two studs (Jones, Kpogba) coming in - both in January. They'll bulk up even more, play spring ball and will be spitting nails by the fall. It'll still be an area of concern as the staff plugs the M and OLB spots. But it'll be a big upgrade from the gaping hole we had going into this year.

 

[baggerbob]

This might not be a very popular opinion, but overall I thought LB play was average to below average this season.

Guthrie had some moments and Shy did too, but overall I was underwhelmed with their play. Bad angles all over the place and allowed way too many big plays as a result. Not sure any would start for another Top 25 school.

Again, I know it’s not a popular opinion but I think this defense could use a playmaker or two at the position.

The linebacking got better when Shy went into the lineup in place of Cordy. The preseason 4-2-5 rather then a base 4-3 was a disaster. Ward made the change and everything got better.

 

[shu 49]

This might not be a very popular opinion, but overall I thought LB play was average to below average this season.

Guthrie had some moments and Shy did too, but overall I was underwhelmed with their play. Bad angles all over the place and allowed way too many big plays as a result. Not sure any would start for another Top 25 school.

Again, I know it’s not a popular opinion but I think this defense could use a playmaker or two at the position.

See u have to base it on up thru Pitt and after Pitt. Way better after we became aggressive. Not even close and Guthrie and shy rose up and did well. Defensive change of philosophy. Way more los tackles in later part than before

 

[OrangeinNH]

Agree that the linebacking prospects have some promise with Shy, Armstrong, T. Richards as the front runners for the bulk of the playing time/snaps. Nice mix of experience and athleticism.

Back to the offensive line, have enjoyed all of the different spellings of Carlos Vettorello’s last name;-). Sounds like there is some confidence that he’s in the mix, smaller than a typical tackle, right? Listed at 6’4 280, obviously would expect him to put on some weight. Would be great if he is a surprise, early playing time OLine mainstay (given that we thought we lost “that guy” in his fellow Michigan product Sampson).

Question: is Patrick Davis primarily a guard or tackle?

What’s the buzz for each of these tackle prospects:

Mike Clark- I remember being very impressed with his HS highlights. Seemed to move well for a taller lineman.

Qadir White- how has his body transformation gone, 6 months in?

Vettorello- was he consistently running with the second team?

Patrick Davis

Are there realistic other options on the roster (presuming that Servais moves out to one of the Tackle spots given the reports of his acclimation there last spring)?

Fun to speculate, obviously lots of time for the cream to rise!

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think White will need 1 more year before being ready, just my guess as you don't hear much steam on him. Very typical for a NYC recruit, IMO.

 

[RF2044]

This might not be a very popular opinion, but overall I thought LB play was average to below average this season.

Guthrie had some moments and Shy did too, but overall I was underwhelmed with their play. Bad angles all over the place and allowed way too many big plays as a result. Not sure any would start for another Top 25 school.

Again, I know it’s not a popular opinion but I think this defense could use a playmaker or two at the position.

Personally, I thought that Guthrie was fantastic. And Whitner squeezed every drop of production out of his undersized frame. The performance of this group really took off when Shy began getting run after the Pitt game [as pointed out in numerous posts above].

I think we're going to miss Guthrie.

 

[sutomcat]

Personally, I thought that Guthrie was fantastic. And Whitner squeezed every drop of production out of his undersized frame. The performance of this group really took off when Shy began getting run after the Pitt game [as pointed out in numerous posts above].

I think we're going to miss Guthrie.

Dino says Guthrie is going to play on Sundays. I think his play this year was the best we have had from a linebacker in a long time, better even that Franklin and Bennett. He can really run, fight through tackles and played very tough. He struggled a little early in the season, and late in the Clemson and Pitt games, but a big part of that was not subbing enough and not having 3 LBs on the field. He was named second team All ACC. Only a couple of future first round draft choices beat him out for first team all conference.

Thought Whitner was good and Shy excellent. Armstrong looked good in the PT he received.

I will be delighted if we get the same level of play out of the LBs next year.

 

[SUFan44]

Personally, I thought that Guthrie was fantastic. And Whitner squeezed every drop of production out of his undersized frame. The performance of this group really took off when Shy began getting run after the Pitt game [as pointed out in numerous posts above].

I think we're going to miss Guthrie.

I think I'm just jaded by the 4-2-5 look. That probably put players in a position they should never have been in. Play definitely improved as the year went on and maybe I should adjust my thoughts accordingly.

Individually, the only player that really didn't impress me much was Whitner. Too small and slow to play at a high level in the ACC, IMO.

I think Richards will fill in nicely for Guthrie -- I really do. Shy will be the same and hopefully a young kid steps up to fill the other position.

 

[RF2044]

I think I'm just jaded by the 4-2-5 look. That probably put players in a position they should never have been in. Play definitely improved as the year went on and maybe I should adjust my thoughts accordingly.

Individually, the only player that really didn't impress me much was Whitner. Too small and slow to play at a high level in the ACC, IMO.

I think Richards will fill in nicely for Guthrie -- I really do. Shy will be the same and hopefully a young kid steps up to fill the other position.

I definitely agree that Whitner was too small, but he wasn't slow -- and just to provide a data point re: his performance this season, he finished with 100 tackles. He was pretty good, not the liability some believe.

Agree 100% about the 4-2-5. I think it was predicated upon the belief that Cordy might have more of an impact. Glad our coaches tweaked things -- wonder if not working Shy in sooner cost us the Clemson / Pitt games.

Whereas entering this year LB was totally riddled with question marks, this spring we start with a reasonably experienced trio of Shy, Richards, and Armstrong [who actually played well on 3rd downs]. Glad that Jones / Kopanga are enrolling in January. And with Wallace, Williams [who excelled on ST], and Allison also in the mix, we've got a lot better raw materials / experience than we did heading into last year. That's exactly how it should be -- three established guys start spring ball atop the depth chart, with the others challenging to take their starting spots.

I'm pretty confident LB is going to be a position of strength next year, with much better depth than this year.

 

[timkay99]

I definitely agree that Whitner was too small, but he wasn't slow -- and just to provide a data point re: his performance this season, he finished with 100 tackles. He was pretty good, not the liability some believe.

Agree 100% about the 4-2-5. I think it was predicated upon the belief that Cordy might have more of an impact. Glad our coaches tweaked things -- wonder if not working Shy in sooner cost us the Clemson / Pitt games.

Whereas entering this year LB was totally riddled with question marks, this spring we start with a reasonably experienced trio of Shy, Richards, and Armstrong [who actually played well on 3rd downs]. Glad that Jones / Kopanga are enrolling in January. And with Wallace, Williams [who excelled on ST], and Allison also in the mix, we've got a lot better raw materials / experience than we did heading into last year. That's exactly how it should be -- three established guys start spring ball atop the depth chart, with the others challenging to take their starting spots.

I'm pretty confident LB is going to be a position of strength next year, with much better depth than this year.

Do we return to the 4-2-5?

The LB's from last year played assignment football about as well you could have. Now, you will be replacing 2 seniors with significantly more size and athleticism. Will their ranginess allow them to make more plays? Will they always be in the right spot like Guthrie tended to be?

Recruiting has put an emphasis on tall, long, athletic DB's. Would Trill replacing Cordy allow the team to handle the run from this base set? I will be fascinated because it's much different running at LB's like Cullen and Richards as opposed to Whitner and Guthrie.

Excited to see who emerges this spring and into fall practice.

 

[baggerbob]

Do we return to the 4-2-5?

The LB's from last year played assignment football about as well you could have. Now, you will be replacing 2 seniors with significantly more size and athleticism. Will their ranginess allow them to make more plays? Will they always be in the right spot like Guthrie tended to be?

Recruiting has put an emphasis on tall, long, athletic DB's. Would Trill replacing Cordy allow the team to handle the run from this base set? I will be fascinated because it's much different running at LB's like Cullen and Richards as opposed to Whitner and Guthrie.

Excited to see who emerges this spring and into fall practice.

I feel the only reason they had the 4-2-5 was to find a place for Cordy, and when that turned out bad, Clemson, and Pitt, Ward went back to the base defense. With better players at LB, and DB, there is no reason to try the 4-2-5 defense again.

 

[shu 49]

I think I'm just jaded by the 4-2-5 look. That probably put players in a position they should never have been in. Play definitely improved as the year went on and maybe I should adjust my thoughts accordingly.

Individually, the only player that really didn't impress me much was Whitner. Too small and slow to play at a high level in the ACC, IMO.

I think Richards will fill in nicely for Guthrie -- I really do. Shy will be the same and hopefully a young kid steps up to fill the other position.

I’m on board with ya. Whit is a great kid and fights hard but just didn’t have what we needed. Yes he made tackles but we need downhill guys and that’s not his m.o. I really think the change of philosophy was a big thing after Pitt. Let Guthrie and shy be who they are. Big improvement at los tackles. I really feel shy richards and army will be as good or better with a year of practicing a more aggressive techniques. We will need it unless Ruff starts demanding doubles like Slayton did. That really helps the lb. I think our defense takes a big upward turn next year. I’m really excited and can’t wait.

 

[blizz]

Again, 4-2-5 is base personnel against typical spread sets and offenses. Anytime opponent has 10 personnel on the field, you want to be in a nickel (5 db) set. We ran base nickel under Shafer with a converted wide receiver penciled in as a linebacker (D. Davis). Nothing new here guys, just nomenclature.