Offensive problems

[asj410]

lol...I forgot about that. I still think he just messed that one up so badly that he had to make that story up. Not a single person heard the whistle? None of the officials acted like a whistle just blew either...till like NINE seconds later. That was so bizarre.

I wish I would have rewound it and watched a couple more times. TT was the only one that looked like maybe a whistle was blown.

I think that was strictly because he knew he fell into the guy as he attempted to block the shot and knew that it was a foul.

 

[asj410]

Just remembered a play Thompson attempted on the offensive end in that game. Is it me or did he look A LOT like Fair on the first half play (around 8:30 remaining) where he drove into the lane? I thought he was a spitting image of Fair...until he turned the ball over.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Just remembered a play Thompson attempted on the offensive end in that game. Is it me or did he look A LOT like Fair on the first half play (around 8:30 remaining) where he drove into the lane? I thought he was a spitting image of Fair...until he turned the ball over.

It's early, but I can totally see a scenario where Thompson gets more of Roberson's minutes if he can improve at all on defense. We just are not very good offensively with Roberson and Chukwu/Coleman on the court. Too much pressure on the 3 other guys to do something if thats the type of lineup we are going to roll with.

 

[billsin01]

Agree with the issues raised by the OP, but the biggest problem is lack of points in the paint. Lack of transition baskets; lack of put-backs; lack of finishes of drives. South Carolina got more than their share of easy finishes -- we got practically nothing inside.

I think we see a lot of the same stuff. Getting the ball in the paint has been an issue for almost every JB team that didn't have a player who could individually break someone down. The '10 team did it with the hi-low between RJ and Arinze; last year's group got a bunch of points in the paint during the tourney from roberson's hustle on the glass -- but generally it's a problem.

This team desperately needs to look to run when they can and absolutely has to get garbage points in the paint with their length and athleticism (Roberson/Lydon/Thompson/White). As for actually entering the ball into the post, Lydon and Thompson are the options. I wonder, if South Carolina ends up being more of a reflection of this teams warts as opposed to an outlier, if we might see a bit more of those two together trying to execute a hi-low.

 

[billsin01]

Saturday's loss to South Carolina was a deflating kick to the nuts. We sucked--and while USC's defense certainly had a lot to do with it, it was discouraging that we also shot ourselves in the foot a couple of important ways. Namely:

1. Our point guards sucked -- the flat out stunk up the joint. I know that some will point to how Howard played at the beginning of the second half to counter this claim, but really--he was generally poor. And Gillon looked like a deer in the headlights--he couldn't get the ball out of his hands fast enough. I hope that this was just big game jitters and that he'll settle down, otherwise he's going to be parked upon the pine if he can't be counted upon to deliver. These guys are BOTH capable of playing better than they did against South Carolina, and we need them to both be better. Some of those Gillon drives, he left his feet with nowhere to go. If you're not confident about making a play or taking a shot, then don't try to do too much. And it drives me nuts that both of these guys drive into the teeth of the defense and then make passes backwards to guys like Coleman and Chukwu who can't do anything with the ball there even if they catch it cleanly. Enough. Make no mistake, both of these guys stunk the joint out on Saturday, which contributed heavily to our loss, and also feeds into my second point...
2. Thus far, we display zero cohesion in terms of team offensive play -- Something that's worried me in the four admittedly impressive offensive early games we had was that everything we've seen thus far has been one-on-one, with not much ball movement. There's too much reliance in our offense on guys getting the ball, slowing down, and then trying to individually create their own shot [even a big like Taurean Thompson is guilty of this]. You can get away with that against lesser opponents. And it isn't difficult to make shots when you're up 20. But when the game's on the line, the team needs to function as one, otherwise things bog down. And to date, our execution of half court offensive sets has been subpar. Our point guards did us no favors with their play on Saturday, either, but that was only a symptom of the larger problem. If we are going to rely upon Lydon and White to have to create their own shots, then we're going to struggle all year long. The points guards simply have to do a better job of running the team's half court offense, and the team has to do a better job of finding the open man and making slick interior passes. Move the rock around.
3. Our free throw shooting sucks -- what's new? This seems to be a perennial problem. The four in a row that Frank missed when we were down 6 really hampered our ability to come back. And he wasn't the only one.
4. Missed bunnies --in a game where points were tough to come by, we pissed away a ton of scoring opportunities within the shadow of the basket. Can't afford to do that. I'm looking at you Tyler Roberson. I don't expect Chukwu to be much of a factor on offense, but when our guys get the ball at point blank range of the rim, they have to convert, or get fouled.

#2 worries me the most--by FAR--but we'll need to clean up ALL of these issues, or Tuesday's going to be another rough outing.

I think the scary thing is that for all the excitement on the board about this group, none of what we saw vs. South Carolina is necessarily shocking, right? Now before anyone gets fired up and accuses me of burying this team I'll lay this disclaimer out there -- this is still a very talented team that will get better as the year moves along and should give many teams nightmares this season.

But consider what got exposed Saturday:

Gillon was out-of-control and not nearly as effective as he had been in earlier games.
Not shocking, right? I like Gillon and believe he will be a major asset this season overall but how he fares against better, more talented, bigger athletes is a question that still needs to be answered.

White had trouble creating
Yup -- there were some that were talking about how White should be in the NBA right now and others talking about how it was impressive that he had put the ball on the deck at times in the first few games. Against good teams, shots will need to be created for White. This is a fact. The good news is he doesn't need much space and he can shoot from halfcourt, but the reality is that he isn't going to create a lot for himself or, potentially more troubling, for others. White had 20 assists all of last season. He's certainly going to best that but this is a guy who is a shooter first and foremost and to expect too much creating from him is setting him up for failure, IMO.

Battle was non-existent
It's funny b/c I know he dominated the scrimmages but for those of us who have only seen battle in regular season games he's flashed big potential but spent a lot of his time shooting 3s. The good news is he seems like a better shooter than was reported. The bad news is that a big, really athletic dude has shot 3s on 15 of his 24 FG attempts and, worse, has made just two shots all season inside the arc. That is crazy. Now again, the good news is he's young and likely to improve, get more comfortable, etc. and we'll see that inherent talent. The bad news is that right now he's playing extremely passively on offense (1 FT attempt in the past four games).

We will end up with roughly a 7.5-man rotation
I don't know if this game proves it per se, but it shouldn't be shocking. Chukwu will get minutes b/c obviously if he figures something out (and you have to give him a chance to do so) he's a big asset. But in games that matter and especially at key moments in those games -- this team will have howard/gillon/white/lydon/roberson with thompson and Battle fitting in depending on how they play. Coleman is a great kid and great story but is unlikely to log huge minutes outside of desperation. Chukwu may have something but he's a work in progress and that's probably being kind. The idea that we were really exceptionally deep this year was always a bit overblown, IMO.

Lydon was solid but still looked a little out of sorts offensively
Most of this is probably SC's style combined with the struggles of others, but Lydon is still clearly trying to figure out his identity this year. The good news is he's a great player even on his bad nights.

Howard wasn't great
I actually think people are killing Howard a bit unfairly -- I mean, 10 points, 1 turnover which was a BS charge call and 3 assists in 24 minutes isn't awesome but it's hardly our biggest issue in that game. That said, this is a kid that still needs to be able to put consistent games together. We know what he can do but I think JB is still waiting for him to grab the reigns of this team and just be a consistent factor at all times every game. Obviously he's still going to have turnovers and missed shots, but mentally he needs to be engaged.

The only real surprise to me was the ugly performance Roberson put together. Really hope he rebounds (figuratively and literally) against Wisc along with everyone else.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think we see a lot of the same stuff. Getting the ball in the paint has been an issue for almost every JB team that didn't have a player who could individually break someone down. The '10 team did it with the hi-low between RJ and Arinze; last year's group got a bunch of points in the paint during the tourney from roberson's hustle on the glass -- but generally it's a problem.

This team desperately needs to look to run when they can and absolutely has to get garbage points in the paint with their length and athleticism (Roberson/Lydon/Thompson/White). As for actually entering the ball into the post, Lydon and Thompson are the options. I wonder, if South Carolina ends up being more of a reflection of this teams warts as opposed to an outlier, if we might see a bit more of those two together trying to execute a hi-low.

As you pointed out, the best opportunities we have for feeding the post is when another big is the one feeding the ball. Our guards are just bad at this. They rarely look inside when DC has position. If the guards do pass to a big, more often than not the big (typically Roberson) is too far outside for a post move and we get that herky jerk drive that is rarely successful.

With the amount of shooters we have now, we need to spread the floor and let DC, or Thompson, go to work. Chukwu obviously just gums up the works on offense. Put him on the foul line and teach him to pass and crash the boards.

 

[RF2044]

As you pointed out, the best opportunities we have for feeding the post is when another big is the one feeding the ball. Our guards are just bad at this. They rarely look inside when DC has position. If the guards do pass to a big, more often than not the big (typically Roberson) is too far outside for a post move and we get that herky jerk drive that is rarely successful.

With the amount of shooters we have now, we need to spread the floor and let DC, or Thompson, go to work. Chukwu obviously just gums up the works on offense. Put him on the foul line and teach him to pass and crash the boards.

Our guards have sucked at feeding the post seemingly forever. Lone exception being the one season where we had Christmas and emphasized inside scoring.

 

[billsin01]

Our guards have sucked at feeding the post seemingly forever. Lone exception being the one season where we had Christmas and emphasized inside scoring.

I always thought Scoop did a decent job with this as well and J Hart got better by his junior and senior years. But generally it is a challenge for us and I don't understand it.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I always thought Scoop did a decent job with this as well and J Hart got better by his junior and senior years. But generally it is a challenge for us and I don't understand it.

Cooney drove me nuts with this. If he received the ball on the wing, and didn't get a shot, he'd simply pass right back to G. Never even looked inside.

 

[RF2044]

I was wondering, would it be better to bring lydon off the bench?

He doesn't belong in the starting lineup as a 3 -- that should be painstakingly obvious to everyone by now.

 

[two3zone]

I think the scary thing is that for all the excitement on the board about this group, none of what we saw vs. South Carolina is necessarily shocking, right? Now before anyone gets fired up and accuses me of burying this team I'll lay this disclaimer out there -- this is still a very talented team that will get better as the year moves along and should give many teams nightmares this season.

But consider what got exposed Saturday:

Gillon was out-of-control and not nearly as effective as he had been in earlier games.
Not shocking, right? I like Gillon and believe he will be a major asset this season overall but how he fares against better, more talented, bigger athletes is a question that still needs to be answered.

White had trouble creating
Yup -- there were some that were talking about how White should be in the NBA right now and others talking about how it was impressive that he had put the ball on the deck at times in the first few games. Against good teams, shots will need to be created for White. This is a fact. The good news is he doesn't need much space and he can shoot from halfcourt, but the reality is that he isn't going to create a lot for himself or, potentially more troubling, for others. White had 20 assists all of last season. He's certainly going to best that but this is a guy who is a shooter first and foremost and to expect too much creating from him is setting him up for failure, IMO.

Battle was non-existent
It's funny b/c I know he dominated the scrimmages but for those of us who have only seen battle in regular season games he's flashed big potential but spent a lot of his time shooting 3s. The good news is he seems like a better shooter than was reported. The bad news is that a big, really athletic dude has shot 3s on 15 of his 24 FG attempts and, worse, has made just two shots all season inside the arc. That is crazy. Now again, the good news is he's young and likely to improve, get more comfortable, etc. and we'll see that inherent talent. The bad news is that right now he's playing extremely passively on offense (1 FT attempt in the past four games).

We will end up with roughly a 7.5-man rotation
I don't know if this game proves it per se, but it shouldn't be shocking. Chukwu will get minutes b/c obviously if he figures something out (and you have to give him a chance to do so) he's a big asset. But in games that matter and especially at key moments in those games -- this team will have howard/gillon/white/lydon/roberson with thompson and Battle fitting in depending on how they play. Coleman is a great kid and great story but is unlikely to log huge minutes outside of desperation. Chukwu may have something but he's a work in progress and that's probably being kind. The idea that we were really exceptionally deep this year was always a bit overblown, IMO.

Lydon was solid but still looked a little out of sorts offensively
Most of this is probably SC's style combined with the struggles of others, but Lydon is still clearly trying to figure out his identity this year. The good news is he's a great player even on his bad nights.

Howard wasn't great
I actually think people are killing Howard a bit unfairly -- I mean, 10 points, 1 turnover which was a BS charge call and 3 assists in 24 minutes isn't awesome but it's hardly our biggest issue in that game. That said, this is a kid that still needs to be able to put consistent games together. We know what he can do but I think JB is still waiting for him to grab the reigns of this team and just be a consistent factor at all times every game. Obviously he's still going to have turnovers and missed shots, but mentally he needs to be engaged.

The only real surprise to me was the ugly performance Roberson put together. Really hope he rebounds (figuratively and literally) against Wisc along with everyone else.

Trash everybody but leave the senior alone who literally did nothing? Wow.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Trash everybody but leave the senior alone who literally did nothing? Wow.

Who are you talking about with this?

 

[two3zone]

Who are you talking about with this?

Roberson

 

[billsin01]

Trash everybody but leave the senior alone who literally did nothing? Wow.

I'm not trying to trash anyone. I'm simply offering what I think are legit critiques and/or questions. Not saying we have bad players, but are we looking at a top 5 team or more of a top 25 team? That seems fair to me.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Roberson

6 rebounds in 21 minutes. Plus at least one offensive tip. Got fouled on one of his own rebounds that wasn't called.

Not sure why people are expecting offense out of Roby when he rarely gets the ball in a position to score. He should have gone two handed on the alley oop from Frank, and the airball was ugly, but other than that, what are you expecting?

 

[SWC75]

I think that might turn out to be our worst game. And you know the old saying about your worst and your best game.

 

[orangehomer]

He doesn't belong in the starting lineup as a 3 -- that should be painstakingly obvious to everyone by now.

i'm way more worried about Andrew white at any position. dude is straight booty

 

[RF2044]

i'm way more worried about Andrew white at any position. dude is straight booty

With his inability to create shots for himself, our half court execution sure isn't doing him any favors. Ugh...

 

[NineOneSeven]

Looking forward to your game recap RF