cuseguy
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Palm: JB's absence won't matter as far as SU's NCAA hopes
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That is fine but I just don't like him calling the tournament guy that said it would, a liar.
RF2044
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I guess our only choice is to win two more games, to render the JB absence irrelevant to our chances [instead of crossing our fingers and praying for mercy from the selection committee based upon our record when JB was out]. :noidea:
OrangeXtreme
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RF2044
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That's EXACTLY what I was thinking of when I typed that!
B
Brooky03
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Palm's guess is literally as good as ours. He has no insider, in-depth knowledge into this. He's a bracketologist who's somewhat better than average at predicting NCAA brackets. He's not an expert.
Both should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'll take the directly quoted words from a member of the selection committee over a guy who likes basketball and writes about it once in a while.
JB, inarguably, wouldn't have lost to St. John's, probably would have beat G'town, and maybe would have beat Clemson. At the very least, the committee should drop off the St. John's loss when they look at our resume. Will they? Who knows (Palm doesn't). I imagine the conversation would go something like this...
Member A: Well, how about Syracuse? They played pretty solid down the stretch and have 20 wins and finished in the top half of the ACC.
Member B: Yeah, but they had some bad losses. St. John's is terrible.
Member A: That St. John's loss was without Jim Boeheim.
Member B: I'm a stupid a$$hat and I apologize for my ignorance. Jim Boeheim clearly would not have lost that game in any universe, under any circumstances. Let them in.
Both should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'll take the directly quoted words from a member of the selection committee over a guy who likes basketball and writes about it once in a while.
JB, inarguably, wouldn't have lost to St. John's, probably would have beat G'town, and maybe would have beat Clemson. At the very least, the committee should drop off the St. John's loss when they look at our resume. Will they? Who knows (Palm doesn't). I imagine the conversation would go something like this...
Member A: Well, how about Syracuse? They played pretty solid down the stretch and have 20 wins and finished in the top half of the ACC.
Member B: Yeah, but they had some bad losses. St. John's is terrible.
Member A: That St. John's loss was without Jim Boeheim.
Member B: I'm a stupid a$$hat and I apologize for my ignorance. Jim Boeheim clearly would not have lost that game in any universe, under any circumstances. Let them in.
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Dave85
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I like my video better as an explanation for how they pick who's in.
44cuse
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RF2044 said:
Exactly. All these people looking for easy outs and handouts...go away. This our bed and we need to sleep in it. We SHOULDN'T get a break for JB being out. Why the H should we? They are games and we win em or lose em. If we had gone undefeated during those games, I'm guessing this same group of people wouldn't be here saying they shouldn't count. Can't have it both ways. Right or wrong ( I think wrong), this is the frigging hand we were dealt. This is a flawed team that has dealt with a succession of 1 and dones, BS NCAA sanctions, and who knows what else. While not my favorite team to watch by a long shot, these kids deserve a lot of credit for having us two wins from the tourney.
And just to get out in front of all you detractors and all the other responses coming...yeah St John's was a ridiculously awful loss. And yeah...had we won a couple of games we didn't we wouldn't have to worry about it. But the beauty of that is that you won't have anyone calling you a "Nancy" for saying we're on the bubble or won't get in like a few years ago (and then we didn't get in). Win the next two and whether or not the games matter when JB was out won't be an issue.
Not specifically directed at you RF...your post just happened to be the catalyst for something that has bugging the crap out of me for weeks.
44cuse
EnnisEnvy
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By Mike Waters | mwaters@syracuse.com
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on December 10, 2015 at 6:00 AM, updated December 10, 2015 at 9:24 AM
"Dan Gavitt, the NCAA's vice president of men's basketball championships, said the committee will view Boeheim's absence from the sideline during his nine-game suspension in the same way that it assesses a team that loses a player for a specific amount of time and then gets that player back prior to the NCAA tournament.
"The player and coach availability issue is one of the factors that the committee takes into consideration,'' Gavitt said Wednesday. "It's no different than a player who's not available for whatever reason, be it injury or suspension. The committee can judge the impact of losing a player or coach for a game or a group of games.''
Gavitt said it didn't matter that the reason for Boeheim's absence is an NCAA-imposed suspension."
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on December 10, 2015 at 6:00 AM, updated December 10, 2015 at 9:24 AM
"Dan Gavitt, the NCAA's vice president of men's basketball championships, said the committee will view Boeheim's absence from the sideline during his nine-game suspension in the same way that it assesses a team that loses a player for a specific amount of time and then gets that player back prior to the NCAA tournament.
"The player and coach availability issue is one of the factors that the committee takes into consideration,'' Gavitt said Wednesday. "It's no different than a player who's not available for whatever reason, be it injury or suspension. The committee can judge the impact of losing a player or coach for a game or a group of games.''
Gavitt said it didn't matter that the reason for Boeheim's absence is an NCAA-imposed suspension."
KaiserUEO
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Oh good lord, it was gavitt who said that??
Nope, the committee won't care that Hop was an absolute disaster.
It will count.
They may relish the shot to leave the Orange out and laugh at us.
CaliCuse
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Yes they may "relish the idea but on the flip side the Orange is a very popular team nati"Have you been in the Dome"? "Whats it like?"
jncuse
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Chair - Be careful not to misinterpret and overvalue what he said. The direct quote was only about consideration -- nothing more. And just because the SU record is better with JB, we have to be comfortable that this as the sole factor for the change -- which we have established a high standard for.
Member C - Look any coach or assistant coach in the country can lead his team to victory over St. John's. You could be the most horrible coach and beat St. John's. This one has to be on the players just struggling. Even Roy Williams could have coached this team to victory (rooms breaks out into laughter)
Member D - Syracuse ended the season 2-4 as well. This is just a damn inconsistent team, which is in large part due to their reliance on the 3-ball.
Chair - Thanks guys... we have done enough consideration It is not possible to isolate this individual loss or series of losses to the 2 coaches. Is it possible that it was all due to Hopkins being a poor coach? It's possible. But the team's inconsistency could also be a factor. We most be confident this is essentially the sole factor per our actual mandate and established standards. And due to the way this team has been inconsistent all year, it is simply not fair to the rest of the field to make such an assessment.
-------
I am not saying that no members will think like Member A or Member B, I just think there are various ways too look at that game and I doubt there will be consensus opinion on it.
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jncuse
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You win
jncuse
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I would absolutely love to be proven wrong on this issue, and on Selection Sunday if we are on the bubble, have the committee chair answer a question on us and say it was a big and positive factor for.
But I think one of these other 3 scenarios is probably more likely
1. We do well enough against FSU and in the ACC tourney that is a moot matter, and it is not addressed.
2. The question is asked, but they beat around the bush with their answer -- was our resume good enough either way?
3. I don't want to discuss this scenario.
But I think one of these other 3 scenarios is probably more likely
1. We do well enough against FSU and in the ACC tourney that is a moot matter, and it is not addressed.
2. The question is asked, but they beat around the bush with their answer -- was our resume good enough either way?
3. I don't want to discuss this scenario.
jncuse
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I think part of the reason I am not putting any faith in the JB Factor, is that I am very comfortable we are in with one more win.
If we can't win one of the next 2 games, I can't really bring myself to whine if we do not get in. We had our chances,
If we can't win one of the next 2 games, I can't really bring myself to whine if we do not get in. We had our chances,
NYCSUGrad
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Here's a good article reminding us of some of the What losses the team has had under JB in recent memory. (And it doesn't even mention a bad loss to Rutgers that always comes to my mind when thinking about this topic.)
http://www.nunesmagician.com/syracu...-college-duke-jim-boeheim-tyler-ennis-cj-fair
http://www.nunesmagician.com/syracu...-college-duke-jim-boeheim-tyler-ennis-cj-fair
AZOrange
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This. How the hell does anyone think that the ncaa won't take every opportunity to stick it to us?
PoppyHart
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So, if it is indeed given strong consideration and puts us ever so slightly onto the right side of the bubble (i.e. a play-in game) I'm guessing the committee will be say something like:
"We considered all the variables and simply determined that, given the loss to St. John's, Mike Hopkins is in way over his head and clearly not head coaching material. Therefore, we pretended the game never occurred and have awarded Syracuse a 'do-over' in the form of a one-game play-in in Dayton. Oh, and by the way, for any program whose 2017 schedule includes St. John's, and heck let's throw DePaul, Rutgers and Boston College into the mix since we're amongst friends, you have our permission to not show up, have your athletic trainer act as Head Coach, or, heck, play your walk-ons for 30 minutes. We already chalked up the W before you packed your bags."
"We considered all the variables and simply determined that, given the loss to St. John's, Mike Hopkins is in way over his head and clearly not head coaching material. Therefore, we pretended the game never occurred and have awarded Syracuse a 'do-over' in the form of a one-game play-in in Dayton. Oh, and by the way, for any program whose 2017 schedule includes St. John's, and heck let's throw DePaul, Rutgers and Boston College into the mix since we're amongst friends, you have our permission to not show up, have your athletic trainer act as Head Coach, or, heck, play your walk-ons for 30 minutes. We already chalked up the W before you packed your bags."
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I am serious, a hof coach missed almost 1/3 of his teams season, in a sport where the coaches mean everything, I would say its a factor.
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