Paying student athletes...what's the answer?

[EastCoast2]

It would be the same advantage at worst. Maybe if they put in some sort of a salary cap it would lessen that. But even if they didn't there would be no more added advantage or less parity between the haves and have-nots than we see today.

Same advantage at worst? How would allowing unlimited marketing/monetizing based on where you go to school level the playing field? In your scenario, does DaJuan Coleman stay home and play for Syracuse if he can make 4-5 times more per year at UK, OSU, or UNC?

 

[LGO85]

This is only tangentially related, but I'd be fine with Basketball following the Baseball system. You can go straight to the NBA out of High School and make your money (If they want you) or stay for 3 years. No one is making anybody accept a scholarship-Anyone can go overseas (like the Balls) if college isn't for them. The NBA is a business-Except for the elite, they want guys who have developed and been coached.

This seems like the most logical way to go about this. However I don't see the ncaa giving up that much money.

 

[orangenirvana]

This is only tangentially related, but I'd be fine with Basketball following the Baseball system. You can go straight to the NBA out of High School and make your money (If they want you) or stay for 3 years. No one is making anybody accept a scholarship-Anyone can go overseas (like the Balls) if college isn't for them. The NBA is a business-Except for the elite, they want guys who have developed and been coached.

No one has ever explained to me why baseball and hockey players can be drafted out of high school and still go to college but not football and basketball players.

 

[LGO85]

No one has ever explained to me why baseball and hockey players can be drafted out of high school and still go to college but not football and basketball players.

Too many middle men getting paid

 

[orangenirvana]

Same advantage at worst? How would allowing unlimited marketing/monetizing based on where you go to school level the playing field? In your scenario, does DaJuan Coleman stay home and play for Syracuse if he can make 4-5 times more per year at UK, OSU, or UNC?

Level the playing field? Is that what this is about? I thought it was about stopping the phony charade that is major college football/basketball played by "amateur" athletes.

 

[EastCoast2]

It already is a minor league.

The best players already go to a handful of places.

There is no guarantee talent would pool more at the top. In fact, I think it's more likely to spread out, because a) rich people don't like bad investments and paying a bunch of people to sit the bench is a bad investment and b) there is a very good chance that some players will benefit more from being the big fish in a small pond.

This is a lazy argument - "the best players already go to a handful of places, so let's let them do whatever they want, that will make it more fair".

Maybe you're not an investor if you think that way. The ROI for a booster in this case isn't a player's performance on the court, it's the business the player can drive to the booster's business by sponsoring the player - autograph sessions at clothing store in the mall, speaking at a car dealership, doing commercials for the real estate / landscaping companies, putting their face on their life insurance agency. The difference in spending power between the haves and have nots is exponential. It's not merely 2:1, it's 20:1 and more.

 

[EastCoast2]

Level the playing field? Is that what this is about? I thought it was about stopping the phony charade that is major college football/basketball played by "amateur" athletes.

?? You said it would level the playing field. I simply said it would not level the playing field in response to you.

 

[Fly Rodder]

There is no solution.

There is no solution that maintains the status quo.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I know there were times when I was in college (grad school) and it was a struggle to eat and pay rent.

Sounds like you should have tried harder and been an athlete.

 

[Fly Rodder]

No one has ever explained to me why baseball and hockey players can be drafted out of high school and still go to college but not football and basketball players.

A) it's the in the agreement between the professional players and their professional sports organization; B) HS baseball players can either be drafted out of HS and can either accept a contract and play in the minor leagues OR go to college and play there, BUT they are not eligible to be drafted for three years. They can't do both. Hockey, I don't know, but that's not my department.

 

[orangenirvana]

?? You said it would level the playing field. I simply said it would not level the playing field in response to you.

You must have responded to the wrong person. I never used the term "level the playing field."

 

[kmart128]

Well here is what my solution would be. It's a bipartisan solution to make NCAA and Players happy. Players want to be paid (I don't agree with it but it is what it is) and NCAA wants kids to stay longer.

College Basketball players will get paid. Based off playing time. But you don't receive any of that money until you graduate. You get your degree then you get the money that was racked up throughout your career. However if you declare for the NBA draft then the money that you earned at college is now foreited. So you have to graduate to get money. Allows players to get payed and will allows young men to stay longer and earn their degrees. As for money if you average less than 10 minutes you get 25,000 dollars for that year, 10-20 minutes makes 50,000, 20-30 minutes makes 75,000 and 30+ makes 100,000. So if you graduate as a senior and average 30+ minutes all 4 years then you make 400,000 and earn a degree.

Not only would this be a bipartisan deal but it would be good for basketball as you won't have all the top recuits going to one school because they will need playing time in order to make more money. For instance Jordan Tucker never would have gone to Duke cause he would have been playing less. It will allow recruits to be more evenly distributed throughout the teams.

What's are your guys thoughts? Any thing you'd do different???

 

[Hoo's That]

No one has ever explained to me why baseball and hockey players can be drafted out of high school and still go to college but not football and basketball players.

It's not the being drafted that makes one ineligible it's the hiring of an agent. When b-ball players declare for the draft, they invariably hire an agent. End of eligibility. Chris Weinke was able to play football for Florida State after playing minor league baseball because he never signed with an agent and negotiated his own contracts with the Blue Jays. He would not have been allowed to play baseball for Florida State because he was a professional in that sport, but he could play football because he never took over-the-table money (and, probably, no under-the-table money) to play football.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's not the being drafted that makes one ineligible it's the hiring of an agent.

negative. HS baseball players can sign with an advisor prior to and after the MLB draft. If they don't like where they were drafted or the signing bonus/contract offered, they can then continue on to college ball. Gerrit Cole was drafted by the NY Yankees in 2008 and represented by Scott Boras.

Cole, who Baseball America ranked as the 17th-best prospect in the country, completed the season at Orange Lutheran with an 8-2 record, pitching 75 innings, striking out 121 while walking just 18. He allowed just 13 runs (five earned) and posted a 0.47 ERA.
...
Cole, who is represented by Scott Boras and who has also committed to UCLA...

Cole turned down $4m and went to UCLA, came out after three years and was drafted #1 overall and signed with the Pirates for $8m.

 

[TinyManInside]

Hey man I don’t have the answers. I generally think it is a very small percentage of recruits/boosters/agents/coaches involved. I don’t know.

It's not small potatoes, it's rampant. We're going to hear about more and more over the next 18 months.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It's not small potatoes, it's rampant. We're going to hear about more and more over the next 18 months.

Never said the actions are small potatoes. It’s serious stuff. I just think it is a very small percentage of players/individuals/coaches in the grand scheme of things. But, whatever. I’m certainly not going to post in absolutes or in gospel tone. We’re all speculating.

 

[jncuse]

It's a complex issue, but doing nothing is not the answer. It's a convenient answer for the NCAA.

 

[two3zone]

As ridiculous as it sounds , a minor league or a Lavar Ball type league is the best way to go.

When and where does this stop? College? HS? Unless it's an open market for these guys there will still be underhanded payments and B.S.

 

[orangepassion]

This seems like the most logical way to go about this. However I don't see the ncaa giving up that much money.

Think it would improve both College and Pro Basketball and give their chance to go pro w/o college if they so choose.

 

[orangepassion]

No one has ever explained to me why baseball and hockey players can be drafted out of high school and still go to college but not football and basketball players.

Maybe because no one cares about College Baseball?

 

[EastCoast2]

You must have responded to the wrong person. I never used the term "level the playing field."

It would be the same advantage at worst. Maybe if they put in some sort of a salary cap it would lessen that.

 

[cuse62]

I think all college athletes should be paid as if they were doing work study. Hours required by sport times whatever hourly wage. That way all, not only football and basketball players receive money.

 

[manleyzoo]

I’m with Boeheim on this. The free education and whatever the current extras now should be enough. It varies from school to school and sport to sport. I was friends with a track/shot put guy at USC who also at one point was a backup C on the football team before he stopped and only did track. Lived across the hall from me in an off campus apt. We would game from time to time and I sometimes would go over to his place to watch Syracuse games because I didn’t have cable. I distinctly remember watching a SU @ LVille game at Freedom Hall at his place. I think it was a L. He was getting $350/mo he said and that was around 1999/2000. I know there were times when I was in college (grad school) and it was a struggle to eat and pay rent. A real struggle. USC had a sweet althletes only dining hall/restaurant I was always jealous of. The system is currently corrupt obviously and more could be done. Get the one and dones out for sure. There’s always going to be a few coaches, handlers, agents, kids/families, etc., who are going to cheat and make it look much worse than it actually is.

This talking point that it's a free education is no more than a talking point. It's not free. Playing D1 athletics is a full time job. So for the players the equation is work full-time at your sport and work full-time in school. In exchange, we'll pay for your education while you're here (that you can't finish because you've worked two jobs while you're here) and we'll take all the money you've made for us and then some. Of course, we'll tell you that you're a pure amateur even though everyone knows it's crapola. The amateur thing dates back nearly 200 years and is long outdated.

It's set up so that the players aren't employees, they're contractors. You can thank the scam the NCAA dreamed up 70 years ago to call players 'student athletes,' which holds the NCAA liable for pretty much nothing while the 'student athlete' is enrolled. If the players were correctly categorized as employees required to take classes to fulfill their contract with the school, they'd be paid for the services as they should and receive appropriate worker benefits. If you want to get agents out of the game put them at the recruiting table with coaches, players and parents. The only way to really get this resolved is to shine a light on all the stakeholders involved. Right now everyone pretty much hides in the shadows. Get it all on the table and then see what happens. The notion that college sports are somehow morally superior because the players don't get paid benefits no one but the NCAA and the schools.

If I'm reading you right you're comparing dining hall access as a privileged existence in college measured against regular students who eat Ramen. Or was it just sandwich envy? The players pay for that dining hall access with two full-time jobs. And the money that the school makes in the time the athlete is enrolled is exponentially more than what's paid out in supposed extra value in the dining hall.

My son played D3 baseball, where the balance between academics and sports is held up as more appropriate to the college experience. Even at that level, his commitment to baseball was 20 hrs a week including the off-season what with hitting, throwing, lifting, etc. Combine that with his regular academics, a 20 hr a week lab load for his major, a work study job and he was working more than two full time jobs. There are supposedly no athletic scholies at the D3 level but he was a high level, well recruited player. The day he committed, miraculously 20K showed up in grants for him. I considered it wages.

 

[SoBeCuse]

This talking point that it's a free education is no more than a talking point. It's not free. Playing D1 athletics is a full time job. So for the players the equation is work full-time at your sport and work full-time in school. In exchange, we'll pay for your education while you're here (that you can't finish because you've worked two jobs while you're here) and we'll take all the money you've made for us and then some. Of course, we'll tell you that you're a pure amateur even though everyone knows it's crapola. The amateur thing dates back nearly 200 years and is long outdated.

It's set up so that the players aren't employees, they're contractors. You can thank the scam the NCAA dreamed up 70 years ago to call players 'student athletes,' which holds the NCAA liable for pretty much nothing while the 'student athlete' is enrolled. If the players were correctly categorized as employees required to take classes to fulfill their contract with the school, they'd be paid for the services as they should and receive appropriate worker benefits. If you want to get agents out of the game put them at the recruiting table with coaches, players and parents. The only way to really get this resolved is to shine a light on all the stakeholders involved. Right now everyone pretty much hides in the shadows. Get it all on the table and then see what happens. The notion that college sports are somehow morally superior because the players don't get paid benefits no one but the NCAA and the schools.

If I'm reading you right you're comparing dining hall access as a privileged existence in college measured against regular students who eat Ramen. Or was it just sandwich envy? The players pay for that dining hall access with two full-time jobs. And the money that the school makes in the time the athlete is enrolled is exponentially more than what's paid out in supposed extra value in the dining hall.

My son played D3 baseball, where the balance between academics and sports is held up as more appropriate to the college experience. Even at that level, his commitment to baseball was 20 hrs a week including the off-season what with hitting, throwing, lifting, etc. Combine that with his regular academics, a 20 hr a week lab load for his major, a work study job and he was working more than two full time jobs. There are supposedly no athletic scholies at the D3 level but he was a high level, well recruited player. The day he committed, miraculously 20K showed up in grants for him. I considered it wages.

I appreciate all this. Sure I had some sandwich envy. Everyone does! There is an element of being a double even triple-major here (athletics/academics). I get that. Without going into too much detail and semantics; I was doing similar though not in athletics.

I know it is setup that they are contractors and amateurs. My hope is more that the players get something back after the fact somehow. I went into more detail in another post about re-airings of television games such as the 6 OT one. Something back from merchandise sales. Video game downloads/purchases which are designed and tailored to their skillsets. Sort of a royalty/residual situation like in music/tv/film. I don’t know what the solution is.

 

[manleyzoo]

I appreciate all this. Sure I had some sandwich envy. Everyone does! There is an element of being a double even triple-major here (athletics/academics). I get that. Without going into too much detail and semantics; I was doing similar though not in athletics.

I know it is setup that they are contractors and amateurs. My hope is more that the players get something back after the fact somehow. I went into more detail in another post about re-airings of television games such as the 6 OT one. Something back from merchandise sales. Video game downloads/purchases which are designed and tailored to their skillsets. Sort of a royalty/residual situation like in music/tv/film. I don’t know what the solution is.

It's hard for a pimp out there!:rolling: You're absolutely right...can we just get something for the players, almost all of whom get used, chewed up and spit out. And it's far worse in football.