Red Season 1 Now a Bust | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

Red Season 1 Now a Bust

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I couldn't disagree more with this take. Red is out performing what JB did the last 2 years and to think he was going to do much better ..well, the problem is with the person thinking it rather than what we did on the floor. We do not have a good team. To have 16 wins with this bunch, is a plus. Not a negative,
This year's record is 16-10/7-8 with 6 games to go (3 at home) and that's without sr leadership / 2 starters. Last year was 17-15 / 10-10. Baring a total collapse, there should be more wins but probably no better conference record. This includes a signature win against the #7 team that beat SU by 30 previously. That's looks like a year over year improvement to me.
 
Honest question: Anyone know whether these assistants are effective? Obviously, coordinators make a huge difference in football. I would assume recruiting and talent evaluation are the most important part of being a basketball assistant at this level, with player development being secondary due to the portal and NIL. (Don't want to start another thread because I could see it devolving.)
I was chastised quite heavily 2 weeks ago for a thread about just asking the same if we need a bigs coach to help with rebounding. I know injuries matter but still.
 
Your post is a bust! What did you expect in year one under Coach Red , did you not see like the last ten years of Syracuse basketball and the downhill in recruiting as well‍♂️
LOL. I’m correct in my assessment.
 
This year's record is 16-10/7-8 with 6 games to go (3 at home) and that's without sr leadership / 2 starters. Last year was 17-15 / 10-10. Baring a total collapse, there should be more wins but probably no better conference record. This includes a signature win against the #7 team that beat SU by 30 previously. That's looks like a year over year improvement to me.
I think it’s fair to say there has been modest improvement, but definitely not significant improvement. Lack of development from several players is a concern. Inconsistent play really marks this season. Team has been up and down.
 
well JB was a great coach in the BE and a mediocre coach in the ACC. red has the program exactly where JB left it. the middle. it's up to Red to elevate it.
Lou Carnesecca was a great coach in the BE.
 
Saying that Syracuse should be a tournament team within 3 years is very reasonable, as is saying we should be very competitive for a spot next year-- that is reasonable for an average P6 program. Which we are.

I think part of the problem is some people still have the mentality that "WE ARE SYRACUSE BASKETBALL" still has some massive edge due to brand value or other factors. Sorry to tell you but taking a break from significant relevancy for 9 years has negative impacts.
That may be true, but the fan base and the revenues/expenditures have not changed. The venue is one of the better ones in college basketball, the practice facility is high level. Programs that fall do so because their infrastructure is not set up to succeed. That’s not the case here.

There is zero reason we should be losing to Georgia Tech and Boston College - even in our worst year.

We ARE Syracuse basketball. The coaches of the high school/AAU players know very well, as do the parents. You don’t get a McD A-A without some sort of cache.

I am 50-50 on Autry - a lot to prove. But to say we should lessen our expectations due to the last 9 years makes no sense.
 
Great debate on here

Let me say I support AA, think he represents the program well, however whether he is or isnt the guy to get us back remains to be seen.

There is no way he is getting 5 years with no NCAAT appearances, no way. Hes got 3 years max, maybe 4.

The season was going sort of ho hum, until that 29 pt loss to WF. That was the 1st time, I had some questions over whether he was going to be the long term solution. He gained back some credibility with how handled things post WF, dismissing Benny, etc. I was concerned after the 2 pt Louisville win, but saw some positives in how they competed against Clem and then a great performance against UNC. He showed the ability to pull an upset and beat a Top 10 team. The next step was could he build off of that? The team failed, they are immature and lack consistency and couldn't pass that next step of progress. I understand they are outsized and undermanned. So, to me a positive 1st year would be 18-20 wins. Last night was a missed golden opportunity towards that. If he can reach 18-20 he can show progress from last year with having Jesse stolen, injuries, and Benny dismissal. Next year, he has to get into the Top 6 of the ACC to have a serious chance of making NCAAT. We have to get out of finishing 8th/9th. Third year should be Top 4 of ACC. If he gets that NCAAT appearance in Year 2, that should warrant an extension. Why is that important? I cant find his contract length but I suspect it is 3 years, 4 years max. Cant give a first time head coach, internal hire while the program is declining more than 3 years, that would just be reckless. Need to have something to warrant an extension or else he becomes lame duck by year 3 and competitors can negative recruit which will kill his recruiting abilities.

Red has 2 things working against him, 1 if he cant make NCAAT, his time will be seen as an extension of the JB failures. The fan base will not be enthused, attendance down etc.
2-Although making a healthy $3 mill a year, the school didnt have to pay a buyout to poach him from another school, such as Pitino, Cooley, Shrewsbury etc. So SU didnt have to invest as much to promote him as they would have with an outside hire. When you have to invest more to poach, those hires likely merited a 5 year contract and so the school will have to be more patient. Those 3 I mentioned have mostly been disappointments so far in year 1, fwiw. The other item, is Red likely has a low buyout, no sense that he is going anywhere or a threat to leave. Ohio State just paid Holtman $14 million in buyout to send him packing. So I feel this hire was more of a long audition as opposed to a marriage.

Lets so how the season finishes, factor in the circumstances and then assess whether or how much of a bust it was.
 
1. JAB was given extensive rope and allowed to put up suboptimal results for an extended period of time (call it 8 years or so) because of his storied history as SU basketball coach
2. Red will not and should not have the same rope that JAB was given
3. This year is starting to look like the last 3 or so years of mediocre basketball, a continuation of the same suboptimal results from JAB’s last teams
4. Our expectations are for the team to be Top 25 level and make the NCAAT most years. Anything short of that doesn’t meet the standard of Syracuse basketball
5. Red is currently the head coach and will be given every chance possible to bring the program back to the standards we expect
6. If there is not marked improvement in the program by years 2 and 3 it’s okay to call into question if Red is the right man for the job
7. It’s okay if you’ve lowered your standards of what you expect from SU basketball. The last decade of mediocre results have probably numbed many fans into thinking our best days are in the past. But that doesn’t mean every fan should lower their expectations as well
 
dude i'm in my sixties. and my older sister was born in 1952 . curious as to what your own frame of reference is.
Good times, bad times, you know I've had my share..
probably before your time.
Its a saying
These aren't your ( grandfathers, fathers,older brothers) team.
Maybe I am the only one that used it when writing articles.
Not referring to you in particular.
 
Completely disagree with the OP. With all that happened this year, not sure how you can blame this all on Red. Let's see what he does off season and next year before declaring him a bust. Good grief.
 

Way too often; fans live in the emotions of the moment!​

We beat UNC, and our program has turned the corner; lose to GT and the sky is falling!
Take a chill pill, turning a program around takes time and talent infusion!
 
That's looks like a year over year improvement to me.
people see what they want to see. At the eve of the day, the only thing that drives decisions is whether the basketball program is generating enough revenue.
 
Completely disagree with the OP. With all that happened this year, not sure how you can blame this all on Red. Let's see what he does off season and next year before declaring him a bust. Good grief.
Reading comprehension. I called his first season a bust because we won’t make the NCAAT. I didn’t call Red a bust.
 
It kills me to see UCONN dominating. I just don’t understand how they have continued to get it done and we have sunk so far.
They recruit players that play defense and they got Tristen Newton. A mature, tough, talented guard that runs the show.
 
i've seen 2 off balance fade away last second shot clock treys carom off the glass made in the last 2 weeks. that red is a damn rabbit's foot on the bench.
 
I was firmly of the belief that JB needed to step down years ago.
That said, it’s hard to say that he would not have done better than Red YTD.

Would Joe have stayed? I think so

Would JJ have joined, knowing Joe was hear? Maybe

With Jesse chasing money, would an 80-year old JAB have wasted 3 scholarships on marginal (Cuffe, Naheem) and/or non-contributors (Westry)? I don’t believe so. More immediate impact players were likely.

Would Benny have been gone from day 1? I think so. Is that a good thing? Probably, as long as we had time to replace the scholly.

Would we be playing 100% zone and a structureless offense? Ha!
 
5 years for a new head coach who is totally rebuilding, sure. But not for a coach who had basically all players he personally recruited return
I don't know why people are still failing to understand that there's a difference between recruiting for Jim Boeheim's 2-3 zone and recruiting to run man with some zone.

A lot of posters on this board think this team is talented but just needs experience - which is a mistake imo.

The confusion is in part because they sort of have the talent right now, but it's not distributed well and too many guys have fatal flaws. Like, you can have a combo guard who can't shoot 3's getting significant minutes on a good team, but you can't have a bunch of them. You can have a sharp shooter who doesn't defend/rebound well, or a defensive effort/rebounding effort/depth guy who's kind of a black hole on offense, but not if you're relying on both to get significant minutes. You can have a scoring guard who can't shoot 3's and tends to play selfish attacking ball, but not as the point guard.

This is why you're seeing a lot of takes that are polarized to "get rid of everyone but Maliq!!!" or "keep them all they just need experience." Who to keep and why is very debatable, and a lot of people are just simplifying it to the extremes.
 
It kills me to see UCONN dominating. I just don’t understand how they have continued to get it done and we have sunk so far.
Hurley kept working, out recruited us, sent out a lot of offers, recruited over guys on the roster until he got it right. As opposed to JB not wanting to bring in transfers and competition at certain spots.
 
Barring a miracle in the next 3 weeks, Red’s season 1 is looking like a bust, or at least underperformed against fans’ expectations.

Looking ahead to next year I believe he must make the NCAA Tournament. The program can’t continue to produce mediocre results year after year. We’re slipping as a national program. Falling with the likes of Indiana and Georgetown into the oblivion of has-beens.

Question is, do you give Red a third year if he fails to make the NCAAT next year?

Even if he gets a third year, if he doesn’t make the tournament by his third year there’s no chance he gets a 4th.
A bust relative to fan expectations? That describes every season for the past 50 outside of ‘03 and maybe a couple others.

This board is borderline bipolar. This offseason a bunch of folks were asking if this was our most talented roster ever. It’s absurd.

But, it’s been a rocky season and Red’s roster moves probably have graded out somewhere in the D range.

He’ll get three years but has to have a better roster next year. Freeman should help. Westry might help. A couple key additions, however, would go a loooonnnnngggggg way to making us feel better. A switchable, athletic defense-minded big (doesn’t have to be a center, imo) and a good two-way player at the wing or maybe PG would likely make us much more compelling.

Also need to find a way to squeeze minutes out of McLeod (he should only play in the zone, so maybe that’s a 4-min stretch of each half) and add a few wrinkles to our approach on both ends of the floor.
 
A bust relative to fan expectations? That describes every season for the past 50 outside of ‘03 and maybe a couple others.

This board is borderline bipolar. This offseason a bunch of folks were asking if this was our most talented roster ever. It’s absurd.

But, it’s been a rocky season and Red’s roster moves probably have graded out somewhere in the D range.

He’ll get three years but has to have a better roster next year. Freeman should help. Westry might help. A couple key additions, however, would go a loooonnnnngggggg way to making us feel better. A switchable, athletic defense-minded big (doesn’t have to be a center, imo) and a good two-way player at the wing or maybe PG would likely make us much more compelling.

Also need to find a way to squeeze minutes out of McLeod (he should only play in the zone, so maybe that’s a 4-min stretch of each half) and add a few wrinkles to our approach on both ends of the floor.
Your expectation is to win a NCAA Championship every year?
 
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