Sorry, I've been traveling, but one quick point...

[CousCuse]

I was talking about OrangeFoo dividing the SU fan base. Do you really see the impact of OrangeFoo across the totality of the SU fan base? That would be some serious power.

Just causes a feeling of division . Once you are divided , you are weaker .

 

[BomberOrange]

Charlie Loeb would've done well in Hackett's system, we'd have won the Pitt and Penn State games that Shafer managed to screw up, and we'd have been 8-4 with a better bowl opportunity than that Houston one.

And I assume the recruiting would've incrementally improved from there.

The Loeb comment made me laugh. Reminds me of the people who wanted to see Matt Hale get a shot.

 

[TheCusian]

:noidea:

Good rebuttal. Strong response.

 

[CousCuse]

Good rebuttal. Strong response.

I am not looking for an argument .

 

[SWC75]

Yes, that is the first step to rebuilding and he was successful to that point, next step was to climb the ladder. I would say at the end of 2012 he had us playing like a top 20 team not that was guaranteed he was going to sustain it but we were trending in the right direction for sure. I just don't see any other way to look at it. His recruiting was trending the right way too. His staff as well. IMO, he had his staff on the same page too after a few years of tweaking. Like I said, we were heading in the right direction and with indoor practice facility and now dome renovations I have a tough time believing that Marrone would have NOT gone onto to further success here and we wouldn't be where we are now. Now Dino has to start over more or less and start the climb to respectability.. AGAIN

I don't see Doug losing 0-56 to G-Tech.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Charlie Loeb would've done well in Hackett's system, we'd have won the Pitt and Penn State games that Shafer managed to screw up, and we'd have been 8-4 with a better bowl opportunity than that Houston one.

And I assume the recruiting would've incrementally improved from there.

And if we win that Bowl game we end up 9-4 and possibly ranked. However I don't think 2014 would have made much of a difference. We lost NC State and Duke because of injuries. Maybe he could have found a way to win one of those but then we are still 4-8. For 2015 I think we go 5-7, but maybe find a way to 6-6. This year would depend greatly on recruiting. We wouldn't have Dungey, Ismail, Estime, and might not have ET. However we would have kids recruited by Marrone instead as upperclassmen. Chances are the O would be worse. Although I think the OL would have been better. I also think the D would be a lot better as he would have recruited bigger kids. My guess would be 5-7 this year.

A lot would depend on recruiting and injuries. I think we see 9-4, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7 and we all are wondering if his seat is getting warm for 2017. But those records are better than 7-6, 3-9, 4-8, TBD.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And if we win that Bowl game we end up 9-4 and possibly ranked. However I don't think 2014 would have made much of a difference. We lost NC State and Duke because of injuries. Maybe he could have found a way to win one of those but then we are still 4-8. For 2015 I think we go 5-7, but maybe find a way to 6-6. This year would depend greatly on recruiting. We wouldn't have Dungey, Ismail, Estime, and might not have ET. However we would have kids recruited by Marrone instead as upperclassmen. Chances are the O would be worse. Although I think the OL would have been better. I also think the D would be a lot better as he would have recruited bigger kids. My guess would be 5-7 this year.

A lot would depend on recruiting and injuries. I think we see 9-4, 4-8, 5-7, 5-7 and we all are wondering if his seat is getting warm for 2017. But those records are better than 7-6, 3-9, 4-8, TBD.

I have a tough time believing Doug Marrone with the staff he had in place, systems and the improvements we were seeing in recruiting, indoor practice facility on its way goes 4-8 in 2014 and 5-7 in 2015. I just don't see it. 7-5? sure but I have an easier time believing we go 8-4 and 7-5 than losing records. We were building momentum heading into the ACC not losing it. Look at the staff he had in place as well. Rob Moore, Ty Wheatley, Donnie Henderson, Hackett was getting nothing but better, Shafer was great as a DC, that was a legit staff. Doug beat quite a few teams in 3-4 years with more talent than we had- quite a few. He won at least one game a year that people gave us pretty much no chance in..

Dino could use a win like 2009 Rutgers.. V Tech would be a good one too start

 

[Crusty]

I have a tough time believing Doug Marrone with the staff he had in place, systems and the improvements we were seeing in recruiting, indoor practice facility on its way goes 4-8 in 2014 and 5-7 in 2015. I just don't see it. 7-5? sure but I have an easier time believing we go 8-4 and 7-5 than losing records. We were building momentum heading into the ACC not losing it. Look at the staff he had in place as well. Rob Moore, Ty Wheatley, Donnie Henderson, Hackett was getting nothing but better, Shafer was great as a DC, that was a legit staff.

IMO had DM stayed we would be closing in on the top 25 by now. He had a very good staff and never had a real opportunity to recruit in the ACC. That said we are better off now.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

IMO had DM stayed we would be closing in on the top 25 by now. He had a very good staff and never had a real opportunity to recruit in the ACC. That said we are better off now.

We hope we are better off now. We aren't better in 2016 that is for sure than if Marrone had stayed.

All we can do is hope. Like I said, I like Dino a lot, really do but people lose track of what Marrone was building because of the way he left, his ly personality, the 5 game slide in 2011 and his somewhat conservative nature at times. Guy can coach.

 

[Pyle]

The Loeb comment made me laugh. Reminds me of the people who wanted to see Matt Hale get a shot.

Loeb was amazing. Pretty sure he didn't mishandle a hold his entire tenure.

As for this whole extension thing...Can we at least win a few P5 games before we lock this guy up for 8 more years? I feel like some of you guys are standing on an aircraft carrier with a big banner behind you.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I have a tough time believing Doug Marrone with the staff he had in place, systems and the improvements we were seeing in recruiting, indoor practice facility on its way goes 4-8 in 2014 and 5-7 in 2015. I just don't see it. 7-5? sure but I have an easier time believing we go 8-4 and 7-5 than losing records. We were building momentum heading into the ACC not losing it. Look at the staff he had in place as well. Rob Moore, Ty Wheatley, Donnie Henderson, Hackett was getting nothing but better, Shafer was great as a DC, that was a legit staff. Doug beat quite a few teams in 3-4 years with more talent than we had- quite a few. He won at least one game a year that people gave us pretty much no chance in..

Dino could use a win like 2009 Rutgers.. V Tech would be a good one too start

We have no clue what type of underclassmen those teams would have had. We do know what type of upperclassmen we had. Hunt wasn't Marrone's type of QB, so does he start Hunt? Or does he go with Wilson or Allen? Does Hunt get hurt if he starts? Marrone would have used PTG correctly but there was no 2nd RB that year. Ishmail and Estime aren't there. Does Broyld get kicked off? We would have no WRs or TEs.

I think we beat Nova and CMU. MD got a big lead because of the D and just sat back the rest of the game. Maybe with Marrone we come back, but not likely IMO. We were outclassed by ND. Louisville's D shut us down and their O did enough to win. I think with Marrone we have a better shot at winning but still lose. FSU was too good. We still beat Wake and still lose to Clemson. NC State and Duke we had no OLmen or QBs due to injury. Assuming those OLmen are hurt under Marrone, we likely lose those games as well (maybe we win one). Pitt and BC would have been closer under Marrone but we had nothing left against those guys. The D couldn't stop either team and the O didn't have the talent to score.

The problem with 2014 was O talent and injuries, followed by poor coaching. The talent doesn't change much with Marrone. I think we have a better chance to win those games and come closer in our Ls. We certainly would be a better team but IMO it wouldn't have been reflected in the record.

 

[OttoMets]

Some of the staff were very optimistic about Loeb's prospects. It's easy to dismiss now, but there's every reason to think that he -- with good coaching, a veteran offensive line, and Smith and Gulley -- would've put together a solid year. That numbskull George McDonald had no idea how to use those two running backs (and ended up running Smith off because of it) and still went 6-6.

 

[Millhouse]

Some of the staff were very optimistic about Loeb's prospects. It's easy to dismiss now, but there's every reason to think that he -- with good coaching, a veteran offensive line, and Smith and Gulley -- would've put together a solid year. That numbskull George McDonald had no idea how to use those two running backs (and ended up running Smith off because of it) and still went 6-6.

mcf*ckit seems like a distant memory. hard to believe that we... ANYONE... had an offensive coordinator that incompetent

are mcf*ckit and pariani the two worst offensive coordinators ever? spence ought to make that list but those two were worse. incredible. i have problems with some of the playcalling now but it's really nothing in comparison

 

[GoSU96]

mcf*ckit seems like a distant memory. hard to believe that we... ANYONE... had an offensive coordinator that incompetent

are mcf*ckit and pariani the two worst offensive coordinators ever? spence ought to make that list but those two were worse. incredible. i have problems with some of the playcalling now but it's really nothing in comparison

Your best post ever. Pariani was worse.

Bad hires can kill a program.

 

[dasher]

I know that this may seem aggressive to some, but I really think SU should just lock up Babers with an extension. I fully realize that he just signed a 5-6 year deal, but when looking at the bigger picture, will SU ever be able to land a better coach? In all seriousness, I doubt it.

Dino's offensive system will eventually get fans back in the seats and we've already seen signs of it. We looked like a legit team during parts of that game against ND. Once the talent gap starts to close, we will only get better.

Dungey is improving and so is the offense.

I think we really landed a gem here, but time to be serious and make sure this guy knows he's not going anywhere. Again, I realize it's unlikely this happens, but as a die-hard fan, we'd be blessed to have this guy for the next 10-15 years.

All hail, Dino.

No. Of course not. An extension wouldn't stop him from leaving. It will only make it impossible for us to get rid of him if it ever came to that. And it almost always does.

 

[Millhouse]

I have a tough time believing Doug Marrone with the staff he had in place, systems and the improvements we were seeing in recruiting, indoor practice facility on its way goes 4-8 in 2014 and 5-7 in 2015. I just don't see it. 7-5? sure but I have an easier time believing we go 8-4 and 7-5 than losing records. We were building momentum heading into the ACC not losing it. Look at the staff he had in place as well. Rob Moore, Ty Wheatley, Donnie Henderson, Hackett was getting nothing but better, Shafer was great as a DC, that was a legit staff. Doug beat quite a few teams in 3-4 years with more talent than we had- quite a few. He won at least one game a year that people gave us pretty much no chance in..

Dino could use a win like 2009 Rutgers.. V Tech would be a good one too start

i think what hurts babers this year is that even the teams that aren't powerhouse factories are really good this year

i think VT might be great- Fuente is doing better than I thought he would. much better than rutgers.

NC State is a good one to shoot for but how good are they really? maybe pitt is comparable to rutgers

we'll find out more this week

 

[Chip]

i think what hurts babers this year is that even the teams that aren't powerhouse factories are really good this year

i think VT might be great- Fuente is doing better than I thought he would. much better than rutgers.

NC State is a good one to shoot for but how good are they really? maybe pitt is comparable to rutgers

we'll find out more this week

VT has built a brand, they have a recruiting pipeline, and they didn't have to touch the part of their team that was their strength. (The D, not the STs. I don't count STs, even Beamer's luck run out on that train). Adding an offensive minded HC who only had to worry about the O and nothing else. I'm not really surprised that they're ahead of the curve. God I hate them.

Even if we progress each week, I don't see that game going well for us next week.

 

[OttoMets]

mcf*ckit seems like a distant memory. hard to believe that we... ANYONE... had an offensive coordinator that incompetent

are mcf*ckit and pariani the two worst offensive coordinators ever? spence ought to make that list but those two were worse. incredible. i have problems with some of the playcalling now but it's really nothing in comparison

I think Mcf----- is the worst of all time because, in addition to being terrible at the job of offensive coordinator, he very publicly conducted himself like a shmuck, all while running off a) his best inherited offensive player in Jerome Smith and b) his best subordinate and coach of his most successful offensive unit in Pat Perles.

He was a total disaster, thumping his Bible while patting himself on the back and ruining his side of the team. I think people who are skeptical about how Marrone would have done in the last 3+ years don't take into account how quickly McDonald destroyed everything. He inherited a new quarterback, some backup receivers, and a very solid line and backfield. He immediately tried to put his own stamp on things and the result was a new quarterback, backup receivers, and a mediocre backfield and poor line.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Some of the staff were very optimistic about Loeb's prospects. It's easy to dismiss now, but there's every reason to think that he -- with good coaching, a veteran offensive line, and Smith and Gulley -- would've put together a solid year. That numbskull George McDonald had no idea how to use those two running backs (and ended up running Smith off because of it) and still went 6-6.

I forgot about Smith not coming back. My other posts above should be revised as he would make a difference in 2014. So I think we go 8-4, 6-6, 6-6, 6-6 with Marrone.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think Mcf----- is the worst of all time because, in addition to being terrible at the job of offensive coordinator, he very publicly conducted himself like a shmuck, all while running off a) his best inherited offensive player in Jerome Smith and b) his best subordinate and coach of his most successful offensive unit in Pat Perles.

He was a total disaster, thumping his Bible while patting himself on the back and ruining his side of the team. I think people who are skeptical about how Marrone would have done in the last 3+ years don't take into account how quickly McDonald destroyed everything. He inherited a new quarterback, some backup receivers, and a very solid line and backfield. He immediately tried to put his own stamp on things and the result was a new quarterback, backup receivers, and a mediocre backfield and poor line.

He was a disaster but at least we moved the ball. We get more yards in the 1st Q of games this year than we did the entire game under Pariani.

 

[TheCusian]

There's a lot of overestimating of Marrone's recruiting prowess. He hated it and his classes showed. Could the ACC + IPF help? Probably. But NFL guys who hate recruiting don't grow programs. I think he's an NFL guy; likes coaching pros.

 

[CuseOnly]

He is liked. I like him. I think he's a good coach. That does not mean he's above reproach or we shouldn't look at his time here with clear eyes.

Arguing over sports on a message board isn't dividing anything. We agree and disagree on a thousand things. Wanting Syracuse football to win again is the thing that we all agree on.

Clear eyes...full heart...Saint Doug!

 

[OttoMets]

He was a disaster but at least we moved the ball. We get more yards in the 1st Q of games this year than we did the entire game under Pariani.

That's true, and I was tuned out for much of the Pariani era.

But he had such an outsized impact beyond game production. I know that some people think the Hackett system was tenuous (and they might be right), but McDonald pulled a 180 and wrecked all our improvement so quickly.

 

[Millhouse]

He was a disaster but at least we moved the ball. We get more yards in the 1st Q of games this year than we did the entire game under Pariani.

yeah, spread to run works so well that even mcf*ckit could gain yards

 

[Pyle]

yeah, spread to run works so well that even mcf*ckit could gain yards

If I remember McFit's problems wasn't gaining yards, we gained quite a few. It was the complete lack of ideas about what to do inside the 20.