Sudden recruiting uptick... | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Sudden recruiting uptick...

... There's a business model out there which needs to be implemented. We're just at the initial stages of making that happen.
You use the key word..."business."
College basketball is a big business...not just some peripheral activity run by colleges.

When a coach's good friend just happens to fly up a top recruit along with a couple of hip-hop stars to see a game and also offer the recruit a well-paying "job", it's supposed to be unrelated to recruiting.

Can I get a wink-wink?

As much as it should change, it may not.
As others have said, this is the way it always was.
It's just now out in the open.
And if the tried and true system is out in the open and apparently legal...where is the urgency to change?
The business model is working.
 
You use the key word..."business."
College basketball is a big business...not just some peripheral activity run by colleges.

When a coach's good friend just happens to fly up a top recruit along with a couple of hip-hop stars to see a game and also offer the recruit a well-paying "job", it's supposed to be unrelated to recruiting.

Can I get a wink-wink?

As much as it should change, it may not.
As others have said, this is the way it always was.
It's just now out in the open.
And if the tried and true system is out in the open and apparently legal...where is the urgency to change?
The business model is working.
On the recruiting issue it's just a matter of acknowledging that these perks are truly part of the recruiting process, then we can eliminate the "wink-wink". Simple solution.

And I totally agree that college athletics are now a business. Can't wait until the athletes are allowed to unionize. The hiring and firing of athletes will be fun to watch. Kind of like watching a car wreck in process. Kind of prefer watching Roy's runts and Louie & Bouie, but those days are long gone.
 
The fact that he (or any other program) can currently do it doesn't mean it will not have to be addressed in the very near future. Just isn't sustainable the way it is now.
I don't know how anyone can say it is unsustainable. What does that mean? We're going to run out of recruits, players, or money? There's more of each minted every year. Revenue in professional sports has exploded in the last 40 years after everyone said free agency would doom them.

You, and others, may not like the current recruiting environment, but people are nostalgic for a past that didn't exist and this is paying people their value.
 
I can see these NIL contracts eventually being required to not box a player into a particular residence. If you want a player to perform a service, where he lives should not matter, right?
Except--how can a player get to a contractually-required appearance at a charity in Syracuse or Binghamton if he's attending practice in Durham or Lexington?
 
Dont wait any longer. I hate it all….transfer rule, NIL, private jets with rappers to a game….. it all sucks. Whether we do it or another school. I get why we’re doing it but it’s all SLIME. College sports is a cesspool of sludge and raw sewage.

You would think before one could actually be compensated for one's own name, image and likeness (NIL) that they would actually have to have such thing to begin with. A high school recruit, etc. who has yet to even land on campus, yet to produce/accomplish anything of significance to date, etc. hardly (tangibly) carries such a noteworthy thing.

What a facade in lieu of calling it what it truly is, pay for play, everyday and all day. But, it's the American way, creating loopholes to justify the means in order to maintain the vested interests of the select group/status quo; those with power and wealth.

Just as that select group (money managers, private equity, etc.) are and have been reaping the benefit of the carried interest loophole, and paying the considerably lower capital gains tax rate vs. ordinary income, which it truly is.
 
I don't know how anyone can say it is unsustainable. What does that mean? We're going to run out of recruits, players, or money? There's more of each minted every year. Revenue in professional sports has exploded in the last 40 years after everyone said free agency would doom them.

You, and others, may not like the current recruiting environment, but people are nostalgic for a past that didn't exist and this is paying people their value.
What's unsustainable is the concept of amateurism and the concept of the NCAA being the governing body of college athletics (at least for the major revenue sports). The NCAA has to be taken totally out of the equation. Let's make play for pay legitimate. That requires college administrators to create a whole new business model that treats players as employees, with all the rights and privileges of any employer/employee relationship. Colleges would act independently from one another and set their own rules of operation within the bounds of government rules and regulations.

From a players perspective, we're not too far removed from a free market system. Players are able to come and go with few restrictions. Their pay (ie NIL deals) is on a sliding scale which recognizes their value to the program. The added benefit for the less valuable player is still a free education as a minimum.

All this sound pretty radical. Probably, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.
 
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You would think before one could actually be compensated for one's own name, image and likeness (NIL) that they would actually have to have such thing to begin with. A high school recruit who has yet to even land on campus, yet to produce/accomplish anything of significance to date, etc. hardly (tangibly) carries such a noteworthy thing.
Good point. Would have been interesting if the years aligned differently and a ton of money thrown at Benny and through a year and a half he is seen as a disappointment. Does AW or other boosters playing this game have buyers remorse and then are hesitant to continue doing this. I dont know whether this is unsustainable but I think the market will eventually come back to earth and settle.
 
What's unsustainable is the concept amateurism and the concept of the NCAA being the governing body of college athletics (at least for the major revenue sports).
That's on the NCAA. Not the players. Amateurism is a sham concept that the NCAA has been all too happy to use in order to take hundreds of million dollars in TV and marketing money and pay it out to coaches and administrative staff.
For more than six decades the NCAA has defined “student-athletes” as amateurs so that its member institutions could avoid paying workers’ compensation to injured athletes. The origins of the term can be traced back to a Colorado Supreme Court case, University of Denver v. Nemeth (1953). In 1950, Ernest Nemeth, a football player at the University Denver, suffered an injury during spring practice. He filed a claim against the university alleging that he was hired by the school to play football and that his injury was a result of his employment. Three years later, the Colorado Supreme Court upheld a ruling by the state Industrial Commission that Nemeth was indeed an employee as defined by Colorado’s worker’s compensation statute. The Court determined that Nemeth’s compensation for playing football—an athletic scholarship, housing, meals, and a campus job—was contingent upon his ability to perform on the field, and therefore the university was obligated to provide workers’ compensation for his football-related injury.

After the Nemeth case, the NCAA recognized that its member schools were vulnerable in worker’s compensation cases. In response, the NCAA manufactured the “student-athlete” label. Walter Byers, then the Executive Director of the NCAA, later wrote, “we crafted the term student-athlete and soon it was embedded in all NCAA rules and interpretations as a mandated substitute for such words as players and athletes.” Soon the press began using the term, inscribing it into the national consciousness. By 1956, when schools first started offering recruits scholarships solely for their athletic ability, the New York Times described football and basketball players as “student athletes.” In constructing the “student-athlete,” the NCAA successfully convinced fans, sportswriters, and players to embrace the mythology of amateurism.
 
What's unsustainable is the concept of amateurism and the concept of the NCAA being the governing body of college athletics (at least for the major revenue sports). The NCAA has to be taken totally out of the equation. Let's make play for pay legitimate. That requires college administrators to create a whole new business model that treats players as employees, with all the rights and privileges of any employer/employee relationship. Colleges would act independently from one another and set their own rules of operation within the bounds of government rules and regulations.

From a players perspective, we're not too far removed from a free market system. Players are able to come and go with few restrictions. Their pay (ie NIL deals) is on a sliding scale which recognizes their value to the program. The added benefit for the less valuable player is still a free education as a minimum.

All this sound pretty radical. Probably, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.
I hear ya but I think the schools aka the school presidents are content. There's no incentive for them to change the structure, yet. They don't have to pay the players directly yet. They have the money from football and basketball to fund the other programs, pay the coaches big salaries etc. Coaches are still getting their big salary. So I don't see the Administrators pushing for change. I think change only comes from Legislation at the state or Federal level because the folks that run college sports are not leading from the front.
 
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I hear ya but I think the schools aka the school presidents are content. There's no incentive for them to change the structure, yet. They don't have to pay the players directly yet. They have the money from football and basketball to fund the other programs, pay the coaches big salaries etc. Coaches are still getting their big salary. So I don't see the Administrators pushing for change. I think change only comes from Legislation at the state or Federal level because the folks that run college sports are not leading from the front.

It will eventually start hitting the universities when fundraising dollars decline because a not insignificant chunk of athletics donors are now bypassing the university and paying recruits/players directly. "Amateurism" was an unsustainable model, but that's just part of the reason why the current free-for-all system isn't sustainable as well.
 
It will eventually start hitting the universities when fundraising dollars decline because a not insignificant chunk of athletics donors are now bypassing the university and paying recruits/players directly. "Amateurism" was an unsustainable model, but that's just part of the reason why the current free-for-all system isn't sustainable as well.
Dont disagree, like I said, no incentive to change,...yet
 
What's unsustainable is the concept of amateurism and the concept of the NCAA being the governing body of college athletics (at least for the major revenue sports). The NCAA has to be taken totally out of the equation. Let's make play for pay legitimate. That requires college administrators to create a whole new business model that treats players as employees, with all the rights and privileges of any employer/employee relationship. Colleges would act independently from one another and set their own rules of operation within the bounds of government rules and regulations.

From a players perspective, we're not too far removed from a free market system. Players are able to come and go with few restrictions. Their pay (ie NIL deals) is on a sliding scale which recognizes their value to the program. The added benefit for the less valuable player is still a free education as a minimum.

All this sound pretty radical. Probably, but not totally out of the realm of possibility.
There's some truth to this. Privileges bring responsibilities. If players and boosters want a 'free market' system, and state laws continue to paralyze the NCAA (along with its own corruption and incompetence) then players can pay the cost of tuition, income taxes, and fair compensation to the universities' for the intellectual property (team brands) they benefit from. Fair is fair. If you don't like it, go pro.
 
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There's some truth to this. Privileges bring responsibilities. If players and boosters want a 'free market' system, and state laws continue to paralyze the NCAA (along with its own corruption and incompetence) then players can pay the cost of tuition, income taxes, and fair compensation to the universities' for the intellectual property (team brands) they benefit from. Fair is fair. If you don't like it, go pro.
ok, if your school requires me to pay for the cost of tuituon, I'll go to the schools (almost def including SEC) that don't
 
I can see these NIL contracts eventually being required to not box a player into a particular residence. If you want a player to perform a service, where he lives should not matter, right?
Not at all. If he needs to do appearances for the Rescue Mission, he needs to be local. If Adam wants to control production quality, he may want to use local studios, announcers, etc.
 
There's some truth to this. Privileges bring responsibilities. If players and boosters want a 'free market' system, and state laws continue to paralyze the NCAA (along with its own corruption and incompetence) then players can pay the cost of tuition, income taxes, and fair compensation to the universities' for the intellectual property (team brands) they benefit from. Fair is fair. If you don't like it, go pro.
They may or may not be using the team logos in their work. When do the schools, NCAA, pay them for the promotional items they are doing showing them in games. That’s as NIL as it gets. The players will pay taxes on the NIL and the room and board part of the scholarship is already taxable.
 
On the recruiting issue it's just a matter of acknowledging that these perks are truly part of the recruiting process, then we can eliminate the "wink-wink". Simple solution.

And I totally agree that college athletics are now a business. Can't wait until the athletes are allowed to unionize. The hiring and firing of athletes will be fun to watch. Kind of like watching a car wreck in process. Kind of prefer watching Roy's runts and Louie & Bouie, but those days are long gone.
Yes...and the days when players like Louie and Bouie actually lived in dorms like real students.
I think Duke may still do that.
 
You use the key word..."business."
College basketball is a big business...not just some peripheral activity run by colleges.

When a coach's good friend just happens to fly up a top recruit along with a couple of hip-hop stars to see a game and also offer the recruit a well-paying "job", it's supposed to be unrelated to recruiting.

Can I get a wink-wink?

As much as it should change, it may not.
As others have said, this is the way it always was.
It's just now out in the open.
And if the tried and true system is out in the open and apparently legal...where is the urgency to change?
The business model is working.
It’s just bringing the business into the light. Billy Owens had a brand new SUV and always paid with crisp, new $50.00 bills at the Wendy’s where a friend worked. Paying players has gone on since college athletics became about money.
 
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ok, if your school requires me to pay for the cost of tuituon, I'll go to the schools (almost def including SEC) that don't
That's fine by me, but some may surprise you .. since (the few getting big NIL $) will have somewhere around $250k - $1,000,000 a year to play with.
 
They may or may not be using the team logos in their work. When do the schools, NCAA, pay them for the promotional items they are doing showing them in games. That’s as NIL as it gets. The players will pay taxes on the NIL and the room and board part of the scholarship is already taxable.
Don't disagree with the later part of this ..within our hypothetical. But as to the NIL value of players ... it's not just mostly the team brand that has the value. It's pretty much all the team. Separate a player from his (or her) team and, unless he/she is a model (infinitesimally small fraction). their 'personal' NIL is zero. NIL is largely a ruse to justify P P.
 
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And I totally agree that college athletics are now a business. Can't wait until the athletes are allowed to unionize. The hiring and firing of athletes will be fun to watch. Kind of like watching a car wreck in process. Kind of prefer watching Roy's runts and Louie & Bouie, but those days are long gone.
Abuses and exploitation are fertile ground for unionization.
 
The real sad thing about this to me is that once you let things go like this, you don't reign them back in. Yes, there can be regulations I guess, but the train has left the station and ain't coming back. I use the word sad because we can all see how this will turn many college fans off eventually and away from the sport. I used to like following recruiting. It all seems pointless now.

Flying a 17 yr old kid in on a private jet with rappers (FOR A COLLEGE TEAM) just doesn't sit right with me. Makes me want to vomit. The whole thing is gross. I was thinking about some of the guys on our current roster who aren't getting paid or treated like this and they see what's happening. I was also thinking about students watching the game and attending the university. Just doesn't sit right.
 
Don't disagree with the later part of this ..within the hypothetical. But as to the NIL value of players ... it's not just mostly the team brand that has the value. It's pretty much all the team. Separate a player from his (or her) team and, unless he/she is a model (infinitesimally small fraction). their 'personal' NIL is zero. NIL is largely a ruse to justify P P.
But, it’s their face, their run, their dunk, etc. Show a photoshopped version of Sherm’s hike to a photoshopped Stevie, and see where that gets ya. We love our players because they play for SU. Without the great players, no one would care about SU. No one is buying a Sonny Spera jersey.
 
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But, it’s their face, their run, their dunk, etc. Show a photoshopped version of Sherm’s hike to a photoshopped Stevie, and see where that gets ya. We love our plates because they play for SU. Without the great players, no one would care about SU. No one is buying a Sonny Spera jersey.
You answered your own question.
 
The real sad thing about this to me is that once you let things go like this, you don't reign them back in. Yes, there can be regulations I guess, but the train has left the station and ain't coming back. I use the word sad because we can all see how this will turn many college fans off eventually and away from the sport. I used to like following recruiting. It all seems pointless now.

Flying a 17 yr old kid in on a private jet with rappers (FOR A COLLEGE TEAM) just doesn't sit right with me. Makes me want to vomit. The whole thing is gross. I was thinking about some of the guys on our current roster who aren't getting paid or treated like this and they see what's happening. I was also thinking about students watching the game and attending the university. Just doesn't sit right.
Think of it as the Syracuse University Nats 2.0. You’ll sleep a lot better.

As for NIL, on net it can only help us. Without bag$, the recruitung disadvantages were too much to overcome in JB’s final years.
 

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