Taggart being treated unfairly

[CousCuse]

It does. Same way Charlie Strong was on the hot seat from the moment that he was hired at Texas. Situations are very similar. Don't see a lot of GoFundMe pages for Frosts buy out and his loss to Troy at home is pretty atrocious.

Charlie was in a similar situation. He took over for a legendary coach( FSU, Bowden/Fisher) who won a national championship. You don't want to be the first coach to come in and change everything. Frost was the all-american qb at Nebraska, he's the superstar alumni returning home. And Nebraska has tanked for a while now.

 

[Cuse12]

facts. I feel for him but he also knew where he was going. Its a win now program. Fans and boosters don't want to hear rebuild. FSU has some athletes for sure but their O line is so awful. Not sure you can blame Taggart for what Jimbo left as far as lineman.

The line is awful, but go and look how highly rated these guys were out of HS. They clearly have talent but are not being coached well. I understand they are thin there and there’s some new guys on that line, but still. When they’re top rated OL guys there’s kind of no excuse for that poor of play.

 

[NKR1978]

The line is awful, but go and look how highly rated these guys were out of HS. They clearly have talent but are not being coached well. I understand they are thin there and there’s some new guys on that line, but still. When they’re top rated OL guys there’s kind of no excuse for that poor of play.

Were they highly rated because they were legit good or because FSU was recruiting them?

 

[chugg21]

Charlie was in a similar situation. He took over for a legendary coach( FSU, Bowden/Fisher) who won a national championship. You don't want to be the first coach to come in and change everything. Frost was the all-american qb at Nebraska, he's the superstar alumni returning home. And Nebraska has tanked for a while now.

Taggart is returning home to Florida as well, he's local and won big at USF. FSU was crap last year and heading down hill. I just moved here too and if you are trying to convince yourself that race isn't playing a large part of this then you are just straight up wrong. The people here in FL are probably the most racist I've encountered in my life thus far.

 

[chugg21]

The line is awful, but go and look how highly rated these guys were out of HS. They clearly have talent but are not being coached well. I understand they are thin there and there’s some new guys on that line, but still. When they’re top rated OL guys there’s kind of no excuse for that poor of play.

How did Florida State’s offensive line get this bad?

There's your answer. If you lose 4 out of the 5 starters on a line that wasn't that good to begin with, this is what happens.

 

[SmilinBob]

With greater expectations comes higher scrutiny. Imagine just for a second when Boeheim leaves and the team is under 500 after the first quarter of the season, how will the villagers feel? I see a lot of torches being lit or already lit and this is how they feel, fair or not to Taggart who is a solid coach.

 

[CousCuse]

Taggart is returning home to Florida as well, he's local and won big at USF. FSU was crap last year and heading down hill. I just moved here too and if you are trying to convince yourself that race isn't playing a large part of this then you are just straight up wrong. The people here in FL are probably the most racist I've encountered in my life thus far.

That certainly is not a good thing. I'm trying to analyze the situation in the area of big time college football, and I've seen a lot of insane situations take place. Another factor that is probably getting FSU fans over the edge is seeing their former coach go to TAM, who doesn't have as good a roster as FSU, and played Clemson to a tough loss by 2 points.

 

[JJReddawg]

Race may play a part with a very small portion of the fan base, but it goes way beyond that. My neighbor, who is an FSU fan and African-American, was not happy with the hire from day one. His reasons, as I recall, were as follows:
1. Under .500 overall head coaching record.
2. 0-1 in bowl games that he’s actually coached.
3. Caught fire with Flowers and Mack playing “backyard football”. (Won’t work in the ACC)
4. FSU easily handled Taggart’s USF teams.
5. His 6-6 record at Oregon is laughable for someone coming into the top Florida football team.

He wasn’t looking forward to the season at all, but at least expected 7-5. Getting easily handled by VaTech, almost losing to Samford and getting dominated by Cuse all just piles on his original feelings of him coming in. In comparison, there was excitement around Nebraska bringing in Scott Frost. He’s returning “home” and just coached an undefeated team. There no calling for his head because that’s who they wanted and think he’ll be able to turn it around with some bumps in the road. FSU wanted someone to come in and be National contenders from day one.

 

[chugg21]

That certainly is not a good thing. I'm trying to analyze the situation in the area of big time college football, and I've seen a lot of insane situations take place. Another factor that is probably getting FSU fans over the edge is seeing their former coach go to TAM, who doesn't have as good a roster as FSU, and played Clemson to a tough loss by 2 points.

It's honestly just more that every person is given a voice via social media now and the loudest are usually the dumbest. Anyone that is a real fan of that team can just look at the injuries along the O-Line and see that it is damn near impossible to do anything when 80% of your starting line is out and then some of the backups are now out. They can't run the ball and Francois has no time to do anything. But the majority of people are just turning the game on Saturday with no comprehension or care about injuries/depth and just expect to win because that's just all they've experienced for the better part of 25 years.

 

[money3189]

Race may play a part with a very small portion of the fan base, but it goes way beyond that. My neighbor, who is an FSU fan and African-American, was not happy with the hire from day one. His reasons, as I recall, were as follows:
1. Under .500 overall head coaching record.
2. 0-1 in bowl games that he’s actually coached.
3. Caught fire with Flowers and Mack playing “backyard football”. (Won’t work in the ACC)
4. FSU easily handled Taggart’s USF teams.
5. His 6-6 record at Oregon is laughable for someone coming into the top Florida football team.

He wasn’t looking forward to the season at all, but at least expected 7-5. Getting easily handled by VaTech, almost losing to Samford and getting dominated by Cuse all just piles on his original feelings of him coming in. In comparison, there was excitement around Nebraska bringing in Scott Frost. He’s returning “home” and just coached an undefeated team. There no calling for his head because that’s who they wanted and think he’ll be able to turn it around with some bumps in the road. FSU wanted someone to come in and be National contenders from day one.

I wouldnt have been happy either. Jimbo is a top 5 coach IMO. If you become the FSU coach you need to be considered a top 5 guy and Taggart is a good coach but he's not at that status yet.

 

[Lou_C]

The line is awful, but go and look how highly rated these guys were out of HS. They clearly have talent but are not being coached well. I understand they are thin there and there’s some new guys on that line, but still. When they’re top rated OL guys there’s kind of no excuse for that poor of play.

They have guards playing tackle, and a guy that was on defense a month ago starting. There are a couple well rated guys that never developed under the old regime. We will see walk-ons soon.

 

[Lou_C]

I wouldnt have been happy either. Jimbo is a top 5 coach IMO. If you become the FSU coach you need to be considered a top 5 guy and Taggart is a good coach but he's not at that status yet.

That is an irrelevant statement. Was Jimbo Fisher a top 5 coach when they hired him?

Which of Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Dabo Swinney are they supposed to hire? Who's 4 and 5? Lincoln Riley and Kirby Smart?

Dan Mullen was considered a top coach by everyone...anyone checked in on how thrilled they are with him at UF so far, with his loss to Kentucky and his 40th ranked recruiting class?

It's always a crapshoot. Maybe WT is the guy, maybe he's not.

 

[money3189]

That is an irrelevant statement. Was Jimbo Fisher a top 5 coach when they hired him?

Which of Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Dabo Swinney are they supposed to hire? Who's 4 and 5? Lincoln Riley and Kirby Smart?

Dan Mullen was considered a top coach by everyone...anyone checked in on how thrilled they are with him at UF so far, with his loss to Kentucky and his 40th ranked recruiting class?

It's always a crapshoot. Maybe WT is the guy, maybe he's not.

how is it a irrelevant statement? My opinion has nothing to do with his previous stops. My opinion is based on the job he did at FSU. I currently think Jimbo is a top 5 coach and they didn't do the things he asked for so he left. Whether it was on bad terms or not. The guy can flat out coach. I dont think Dan Mullen is a top 10 coach. He's a good coach but he hasn't won anything significant yet and hasnt done it consistently.

 

[jgeorge322]

how is it a irrelevant statement? My opinion has nothing to do with his previous stops. My opinion is based on the job he did at FSU. I currently think Jimbo is a top 5 coach and they didn't do the things he asked for so he left. Whether it was on bad terms or not. The guy can flat out coach. I dont think Dan Mullen is a top 10 coach. He's a good coach but he hasn't won anything significant yet and hasnt done it consistently.

Top five coaches dont have the season he had last year, so that puts that argument to bed.

 

[jr4750]

That is an irrelevant statement. Was Jimbo Fisher a top 5 coach when they hired him?

Which of Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Dabo Swinney are they supposed to hire? Who's 4 and 5? Lincoln Riley and Kirby Smart?

Dan Mullen was considered a top coach by everyone...anyone checked in on how thrilled they are with him at UF so far, with his loss to Kentucky and his 40th ranked recruiting class?

It's always a crapshoot. Maybe WT is the guy, maybe he's not.

Probably why we are all paranoid over here about losing Dino. There is definitely a few top guys, and then a handful of guys who may be on the verge of greatness, but, need to be at a place where they could gather all the best talent, have best facilities. Finding those guys is definitely a challenge and why AD's make huge money, but, also use search firms. I personally like Mullen as well, will be curious to see how long he lasts at Florida. Who gets the USC job when they can Helton, who is struggling this year. I think Taggart will be successful at FSU, but will they give him enough time?

 

[chugg21]

Top five coaches dont have the season he had last year, so that puts that argument to bed.

I'd agree with that. He's been solid but only great when he had a Heisman winning QB, kind of like Kevin Sumlin.

 

[chugg21]

Probably why we are all paranoid over here about losing Dino. There is definitely a few top guys, and then a handful of guys who may be on the verge of greatness, but, need to be at a place where they could gather all the best talent, have best facilities. Finding those guys is definitely a challenge and why AD's make huge money, but, also use search firms. I personally like Mullen as well, will be curious to see how long he lasts at Florida. Who gets the USC job when they can Helton, who is struggling this year. I think Taggart will be successful at FSU, but will they give him enough time?

Think both UF and FSU made very good hires this year. People are seriously just out of control. Folks already hate Herman at Texas which is absurd. Folks in the south with too much money/influence and too little memory/patience.

 

[money3189]

Top five coaches dont have the season he had last year, so that puts that argument to bed.

Thats your opinion. Not mine. There's a lot of reasons for that bad year. One bad year doesn't change my mind on him. That’s the problem with society. People are ready to change their minds so quick. Just a few years ago we were talking about Clemsoning and how Dabo doesnt get it done. Now he's the best thing since slice bread. He's been a good coach all along.

 

[JHarris44]

While I will admit that most of the noise may be legit, as you stated, there is pressure not to screw it up for the next because even now some don't think African Americans can be head coaches..coordinators sure, but not a head coach. Everything they do is overly scrutinized and often misunderstood.

... especially in certain parts of this country, like, the Florida Panhandle, for example.

 

[Lou_C]

Think both UF and FSU made very good hires this year. People are seriously just out of control. Folks already hate Herman at Texas which is absurd. Folks in the south with too much money/influence and too little memory/patience.

Yep, Tom Herman was arguably the most can't-miss coaching prospect in recent memory. Inserted into the most advantageously resourced program in the country.

This stuff isn't easy. If you can't hire Urban Meyer or Nick Saban, there are no other sure shots. Dabo got his job in the most serendipitous way possible, and wasn't remotely qualified. And was looked at as an absolute joke for years.

The idea that there's just some certain way to do it that guarantees success is just laughable. All you can do is take your best shot.

It's one thing if people preferred some other candidate over Taggart, but most people screaming about his record don't have a reasonable alternative. It's fine if someone preferes Mullen, but he's a lousy recruiter. You might prefer Norvell, but the guy is just picking up on another guy's success. There's simply no slam dunk, better in every way hire than Taggart, and just because you might wish there were, doesn't mean there was.

Probably Frost, but hiring Frost with Nebraska open is pretty much the same as saying hire Kirby Smart from UGA or Lincoln Riley from Oklahoma. That wasn't on the table.

 

[Lou_C]

how is it a irrelevant statement? My opinion has nothing to do with his previous stops. My opinion is based on the job he did at FSU. I currently think Jimbo is a top 5 coach and they didn't do the things he asked for so he left. Whether it was on bad terms or not. The guy can flat out coach. I dont think Dan Mullen is a top 10 coach. He's a good coach but he hasn't won anything significant yet and hasnt done it consistently.

I guess I don't understand what you're saying then. Jimbo wasn't a top 5 coach in 2010 or 2011. I'd argue against him still being a top five coach in 2017, but even if so...who was the top 5 coach that FSU was supposed to hire?

And...have any of these programs, that are more resourced than FSU, hired a top 5 coach for an opening...Texas, LSU, Florida, USC? Is Harbaugh a top 5 coach?

It's the kind of thing that's easily said...but in practical terms...what does it mean in actual practice?

Unless you mean shouldn't have let Jimbo go, I can't agree with you. He may do very well at Texas A&M with a totally fresh start (where he only took two of his entire staff...most of the rest of which are out of coaching or in lower positions) but the program and culture at FSU was shot.

 

[chugg21]

... especially in certain parts of this country, like, the Florida Panhandle, for example.

aka LA aka Lower Alabama.

 

[chugg21]

Yep, Tom Herman was arguably the most can't-miss coaching prospect in recent memory. Inserted into the most advantageously resourced program in the country.

This stuff isn't easy. If you can't hire Urban Meyer or Nick Saban, there are no other sure shots. Dabo got his job in the most serendipitous way possible, and wasn't remotely qualified. And was looked at as an absolute joke for years.

The idea that there's just some certain way to do it that guarantees success is just laughable. All you can do is take your best shot.

It's one thing if people preferred some other candidate over Taggart, but most people screaming about his record don't have a reasonable alternative. It's fine if someone preferes Mullen, but he's a lousy recruiter. You might prefer Norvell, but the guy is just picking up on another guy's success. There's simply no slam dunk, better in every way hire than Taggart, and just because you might wish there were, doesn't mean there was.

Probably Frost, but hiring Frost with Nebraska open is pretty much the same as saying hire Kirby Smart from UGA or Lincoln Riley from Oklahoma. That wasn't on the table.

Instant success at one of those programs is viturally impossible because if the ingrediants were all there then the job wouldn't have opened. Something negative had to occur the previous year(s) for one of these jobs to open. Then mix in all of the schematic and cultural changes that need to happen and then the roster turnover that comes with those changes in year 1 and 2 after a new regime comes in.

 

[Lou_C]

Instant success at one of those programs is viturally impossible because if the ingrediants were all there then the job wouldn't have opened. Something negative had to occur the previous year(s) for one of these jobs to open. Then mix in all of the schematic and cultural changes that need to happen and then the roster turnover that comes with those changes in year 1 and 2 after a new regime comes in.

Agreed. And because Jimbo left and wasn't fired, Taggart is getting more heat than most, with people glossing over Jimbo's 5-6 record, and a 35-3 loss to BC in his fourth to last game. Things were pretty damn bad.

That said...FSU has to figure out a way to look better than it does now.

 

[gbo]

Dabo got his job in the most serendipitous way possible, and wasn't remotely qualified. And was looked at as an absolute joke for years.

This hurts Lou but you aren't wrong.