Taggart being treated unfairly

[TheCusian]

This hurts Lou but you aren't wrong.

I’m just here for the Clemson FSU love fest.

<wipes eyes>

 

[chugg21]

Agreed. And because Jimbo left and wasn't fired, Taggart is getting more heat than most, with people glossing over Jimbo's 5-6 record, and a 35-3 loss to BC in his fourth to last game. Things were pretty damn bad.

That said...FSU has to figure out a way to look better than it does now.

Going to be damn near impossible without a line. Going to have to max protect everything and then just hope to be able to sustain drives somehow. That or just full out spread and get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less because that's all Francois had against our D-line which sure didn't look like much of a strength the 1st 2 weeks.

 

[Lou_C]

This hurts Lou but you aren't wrong.

Just goes to show you...I'm not really sure what.

 

[Lou_C]

Going to be damn near impossible without a line. Going to have to max protect everything and then just hope to be able to sustain drives somehow. That or just full out spread and get rid of the ball in 2 seconds or less because that's all Francois had against our D-line which sure didn't look like much of a strength the 1st 2 weeks.

Yeah, it's not going to look good no matter what. But could still see fewer penalties lining up, better blocking by wide receivers. Maybe Francois read the option a bit better and run some more.

I don't see a path to 6 wins no matter what, but if we can scratch out 4-8 that's better than 1-11.

 

[CousCuse]

Yeah, it's not going to look good no matter what. But could still see fewer penalties lining up, better blocking by wide receivers. Maybe Francois read the option a bit better and run some more.

I don't see a path to 6 wins no matter what, but if we can scratch out 4-8 that's better than 1-11.

A loss this week would really accelerate the debacle. And UNI is a tough team that could beat a lot of P5 teams, but I don't think it would be looked at like that. Best of luck. P.S. Get rid of that backpack for crying out loud.

 

[money3189]

Top five coaches dont have the season he had last year, so that puts that argument to bed.

I'm not the only one that feels that way.
Ranking the top 25 Power Five college football coaches entering the 2018 season

I guess I don't understand what you're saying then. Jimbo wasn't a top 5 coach in 2010 or 2011. I'd argue against him still being a top five coach in 2017, but even if so...who was the top 5 coach that FSU was supposed to hire?

And...have any of these programs, that are more resourced than FSU, hired a top 5 coach for an opening...Texas, LSU, Florida, USC? Is Harbaugh a top 5 coach?

It's the kind of thing that's easily said...but in practical terms...what does it mean in actual practice?

Unless you mean shouldn't have let Jimbo go, I can't agree with you. He may do very well at Texas A&M with a totally fresh start (where he only took two of his entire staff...most of the rest of which are out of coaching or in lower positions) but the program and culture at FSU was shot.

Thats obviously what I meant. If Im saying he is a top 5 coach currently, doesnt that mean now and not 2010? lol . Never said he was a top 5 coach in 2010. Where are you getting that from? The good ones learn from experience and progress through the years. I didnt think Saban was that good of a coach at Mich st. but he learned and got better. Now he's the best. Jimbo Fisher can't do the same? BTW he won a chip and got back to a final 4. Very hard to do. None of the schools you mention have top 5 coaches because they havent done that.

 

[Tylermarona]

FSU won a national title in 2014. They were in the CFB playoff in 2015. Their fans are not rational and to be honest if we had a coach lead us to the promise land and then start sinking the ship immediately, would our board give the new guy any passes for going toe to toe with Samford and losing to a talent-inferior- team like Rutgers or something?

I know it looks like Taggart is getting that other white coaches are not getting but it’s because FSU has higher expectations. Nebraska hasn’t been good in YEARS and UCLA has a similar story. I am sure there are fans calling for Chip Kelly and Frost’s scalps but we may not see it as much as they are not in the ACC. Also frost took a winless team to undefeated in 2 years - probably a longer leash (especially as an alum)

I still am in the Pasadena, CA area, and fans hate Chip. Why? Cause UCLA is tired of being little brother. Although knowing how hard it is to get recruits in there partnered with public school funding, they will never be USC.

To comment on FSU being riddled with 4-5 star guys, recruits can bust from time to time. ESPN has inflated a players rating from time to time for teams to leverage more attention. Ive seen it happen multiple times with guys in various classes. Not saying it is the case here, but can happen

 

[jgeorge322]

I'm not the only one that feels that way.
Ranking the top 25 Power Five college football coaches entering the 2018 season

Thats obviously what I meant. If Im saying he is a top 5 coach currently, doesnt that mean now and not 2010? lol . Never said he was a top 5 coach in 2010. Where are you getting that from? The good ones learn from experience and progress through the years. I didnt think Saban was that good of a coach at Mich st. but he learned and got better. Now he's the best. Jimbo Fisher can't do the same? BTW he won a chip and got back to a final 4. Very hard to do. None of the schools you mention have top 5 coaches because they havent done that.

Hey i hear you. He is a good coach but the situation at fsu currently is as much as his fault as any, imho. Its a bit like when pere carroll bailed at usc when he knew the sanctions were coming down.

 

[chugg21]

I still am in the Pasadena, CA area, and fans hate Chip. Why? Cause UCLA is tired of being little brother. Although knowing how hard it is to get recruits in there partnered with public school funding, they will never be USC.

To comment on FSU being riddled with 4-5 star guys, recruits can bust from time to time. ESPN has inflated a players rating from time to time for teams to leverage more attention. Ive seen it happen multiple times with guys in various classes. Not saying it is the case here, but can happen

How ignorant of them do you feel that is given his history? How could any rational person think he's going to be able to fully implement his system between Jan and Sep with 1 group of fresh?

 

[Tylermarona]

How ignorant of them do you feel that is given his history? How could any rational person think he's going to be able to fully implement his system between Jan and Sep with 1 group of fresh?

UCLA wise: Fans did not know how bad their roster was. UCLA fans only remember his record at Oregon, which as a fan base you have to be better. We are still seeing how bad it can become by year end.

FSU wise: I think they are all insane. Plain and simple they lie to themselves about their hopes before the year and blame the coach for their inflated ego. So happy Cuse put the nail in their season this early.

 

[ColoradoB]

Nebraska is patient with Frost for right now. They realize there is a lot of the Riley fiasco to clean up. However they are expecting Big Ten titles by years 3 and 4 at the latest. They also believe that they gave the first two games away (turning the ball over and stupid penalties) instead of acknowledging that the opponents made plays when they had to and forced the turnovers. I don't recall Nebraska taking a snap and setting the ball down for the opponents to just pick up.

Frost is not doing himself any favors by saying they won't need a make up game because they will be playing for the Big Ten championship that weekend and then doing all he can to deflect the attention off of him after losses. This is the guy that said his UCF squad was the better team and outhit Michigan in a 51-14 loss.

He is now in a very infertile recruiting area trying to sell recruits on a program that has accomplished nothing in their lifetime. I expect them to be physical and possibly in a conference title game here and there. We will see how fast the honeymoon ends.

 

[chugg21]

Whoa, where did we find a Colorado fan!?

 

[Lou_C]

I'm not the only one that feels that way.
Ranking the top 25 Power Five college football coaches entering the 2018 season

Thats obviously what I meant. If Im saying he is a top 5 coach currently, doesnt that mean now and not 2010? lol . Never said he was a top 5 coach in 2010. Where are you getting that from? The good ones learn from experience and progress through the years. I didnt think Saban was that good of a coach at Mich st. but he learned and got better. Now he's the best. Jimbo Fisher can't do the same? BTW he won a chip and got back to a final 4. Very hard to do. None of the schools you mention have top 5 coaches because they havent done that.

Well, it wasn't clear what was meant by "FSU deserves a top 5 coach" means in practical terms, in regard to WT being not good enough. FSU can't hire Saban, Meyer or Dabo, Jimbo left, so that leaves Peterson. Otherwise, you have to do what they did, and what almost everyone does, because top 5 coaches are available extraordinarily rarely...you hire someone you hope turns out to be a top 5 coach. That's all you can do.

Now, the only other option for "FSU deserves a top 5 coach" would have been to retain Jimbo, so that's what you were getting at, so I get it now.

There were lots of reasons that was both impossible, as well as undesirable. The guy didn't want to be here, his personal life fell apart here, the program culturally was in freefall, and he was having diminishing returns, something like .500 in his last 20 conference games. He hadn't shown any indication of correcting problems, in terms of coaching staff changes, player academics, modernizing offense, etc.

He was a great coach for FSU, and he may end up as a great coach for A&M. But his time here ran out, just like Urban's time at UF ran out and that couldn't really go on there given their dropoff post Tebow and the absolute cesspool that program had become.

Money mattered, and FSU certainly wasn't going to guarantee him $75M, whether fans deserve that or not...they don't have the same resources as other schools. But even if they did it was also much bigger than money.

Regardless of whether WT works out of not, the situation with Jimbo had become untenable.

 

[OrangeDW]

Whoa, where did we find a Colorado fan!?

Sun Devil Stadium, January 1, 1993.

 

[money3189]

Hey i hear you. He is a good coach but the situation at fsu currently is as much as his fault as any, imho. Its a bit like when pere carroll bailed at usc when he knew the sanctions were coming down.

Read my original posts. I said Jimbo is a shady as it comes just like most of the championships coaches from the last 20 years. Didnt say he was innocent. I said he's a top 5 coach in my eyes.

 

[money3189]

Well, it wasn't clear what was meant by "FSU deserves a top 5 coach" means in practical terms, in regard to WT being not good enough. FSU can't hire Saban, Meyer or Dabo, Jimbo left, so that leaves Peterson. Otherwise, you have to do what they did, and what almost everyone does, because top 5 coaches are available extraordinarily rarely...you hire someone you hope turns out to be a top 5 coach. That's all you can do.

Now, the only other option for "FSU deserves a top 5 coach" would have been to retain Jimbo, so that's what you were getting at, so I get it now.

There were lots of reasons that was both impossible, as well as undesirable. The guy didn't want to be here, his personal life fell apart here, the program culturally was in freefall, and he was having diminishing returns, something like .500 in his last 20 conference games. He hadn't shown any indication of correcting problems, in terms of coaching staff changes, player academics, modernizing offense, etc.

He was a great coach for FSU, and he may end up as a great coach for A&M. But his time here ran out, just like Urban's time at UF ran out and that couldn't really go on there given their dropoff post Tebow and the absolute cesspool that program had become.

Money mattered, and FSU certainly wasn't going to guarantee him $75M, whether fans deserve that or not...they don't have the same resources as other schools. But even if they did it was also much bigger than money.

Regardless of whether WT works out of not, the situation with Jimbo had become untenable.

Man, you are miss quoting me. Never used the word deserve lol. So Im choosing to not read the rest of your post because its based off words you are choosing. Good luck the rest of the way. I really like FSU's history.

 

[jgeorge322]

Read my original posts. I said Jimbo is a shady as it comes just like most of the championships coaches from the last 20 years. Didnt say he was innocent. I said he's a top 5 coach in my eyes.

Im not sure how you could have twisted my response so badly (which makes your read my original posts comment so ironic) but to make it clearer, fsu’s results last year and thus far this year (which i attribute to your boy jimbo as much as anyone) would indicate hes not a top 5 coach. Urban meyer or nick saban dont have years like jimbo did last year 2-3 years removed from a national title.

 

[money3189]

Im not sure how you could have twisted my response so badly (which makes your read my original posts comment so ironic) but to make it clearer, fsu’s results last year and thus far this year (which i attribute to your boy jimbo as much as anyone) would indicate hes not a top 5 coach. Urban meyer or nick saban dont have years like jimbo did last year 2-3 years removed from a national title.

Because you said but. Why say "but"? Ive already expressed that it was a bad year for him and he was wrong. My opinion is not a debate. I wont change my opinion but I admire your effort. lol I wont feel differently until I start seeing A&M stink it up in a couple years. I like the way his teams play. I like what he does with QB's. His teams are always prepared. He is consistently good. Having a bad year is not going to change what he did previous years for me. I understand the dynamics in coaching. A lot went wrong for FSU last year and he didnt handle his situation right. Players knew he was out the door. Bill parsells, Joe Gibbs are HOF coaches that had terrible seasons. Bill Cowher etc.. Sean Payton has had 3 7-9 seasons in a row and I think he's a top coach. I need to see more evidence that he's not a top tier coach. If A&M struggles in a few years, my thoughts will change.

 

[OrangePA]

That's what happens when you go to a school like FSU
Win now
*end of story*

Taking a big job cuts both ways.

Big money and lots of attention.

But no patience.

Syracuse University in the ACC has just the right balance

 

[jgeorge322]

Because you said but. Why say "but"? Ive already expressed that it was a bad year for him and he was wrong. My opinion is not a debate. I wont change my opinion but I admire your effort. lol I wont feel differently until I start seeing A&M stink it up in a couple years. I like the way his teams play. I like what he does with QB's. His teams are always prepared. He is consistently good. Having a bad year is not going to change what he did previous years for me. I understand the dynamics in coaching. A lot went wrong for FSU last year and he didnt handle his situation right. Players knew he was out the door. Bill parsells, Joe Gibbs are HOF coaches that had terrible seasons. Bill Cowher etc.. Sean Payton has had 3 7-9 seasons in a row and I think he's a top coach. I need to see more evidence that he's not a top tier coach. If A&M struggles in a few years, my thoughts will change.

Youre right its a pointless debate and irrelevant to my op. What is top 5 anyway. Theres saban urban arguably dabo and then everyone else.

 

[MadisonCuse]

Personally I want to see him fail epically like 3-9, 2-10, 1-11 the next three years. Only because it benefits us when they suck.

 

[shantydaze]

A little perspective:

2014 AP Final Rankings - FSU (5), UCLA (10), NU (ORV)
2015 AP Final Rankings - FSU (14), UCLA (NR), NU (NR)
2016 AP Final Rankings - FSU (8), NU (ORV), UCLA (NR)
2017 AP Final Rankings - FSU (NR), UCLA (NR), NU (NR)

In this four year span, FSU won ten or more games three times and made four bowl games, including the CFP in 2014 and NY6 games in 2015 and 2016). UCLA went to three bowl games and only won ten games in one of the seasons. Nebraska also went to three bowl games, but never reached ten wins in a season.

247 Recruiting rankings:

2014 - FSU (4), UCLA (18), NU (35)
2015 - FSU (3), UCLA (12), NU (30)
2016 - FSU (3), UCLA (13), NU (26)
2017 - FSU (6), UCLA (20), NU (23)
2018 - FSU (11), UCLA (19), NU (23)

For FSU, 2017 was an aberration. Therefore, it should be expected that its fan base and the media has higher expectations for them than for UCLA and Nebraska. Does Taggart's race play into it for some of the fans? Absolutely, but I am not sure I would go as far as to say it is part of the problem with the majority of fans.

Nebraska is a little bit of a different situation as its own golden boy has returned home and the fan base believed the Nebraska "culture" was missing from the program. I believe the fan base will give Frost a little more leeway because they believe he needs to fix a mess that was left by Riley. I have no idea what UCLA fans are thinking and, to be fair, not sure there are enough of them to matter. However, like Nebraska, I would assume they understand there is a little bit of a rebuilding project going on, so Kelly also gets the benefit of the doubt. Because of FSU's success, high recruiting class, and last year's season being written off as FSU losing its starting QB in game one, the HC position (regardless of the race of the individual filling it), does not get the benefit of the doubt or leeway as the other two jobs.

 

[ColoradoB]

Sun Devil Stadium, January 1, 1993.

Blech, I will never forget the name Kirby Dar Dar because of that game. First game I watched Syracuse was 1987 vs Penn State. I took a liking to them then. I did not get to see them again until the Sugar Bowl and that was when I learned there was no OT in college football.

 

[kirbivore]

Someday coaches are going to realize these football factories are all filled with stupid idiots, and they’ll stay put in their lower pressure job that they’ve already built into a winner.

Good money + job security>>>> Great money + dealing with stupid idiots breathing down your neck in week 3 of year 1.

Some basketball coaches already figured this out.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Nebraska is patient with Frost for right now. They realize there is a lot of the Riley fiasco to clean up. However they are expecting Big Ten titles by years 3 and 4 at the latest. They also believe that they gave the first two games away (turning the ball over and stupid penalties) instead of acknowledging that the opponents made plays when they had to and forced the turnovers. I don't recall Nebraska taking a snap and setting the ball down for the opponents to just pick up.

Frost is not doing himself any favors by saying they won't need a make up game because they will be playing for the Big Ten championship that weekend and then doing all he can to deflect the attention off of him after losses. This is the guy that said his UCF squad was the better team and outhit Michigan in a 51-14 loss.

He is now in a very infertile recruiting area trying to sell recruits on a program that has accomplished nothing in their lifetime. I expect them to be physical and possibly in a conference title game here and there. We will see how fast the honeymoon ends.

Time will tell if Nebraska learned its lesson from the Frank Solich debacle.

To me, that was the "first sign the apocalypse is upon us" related to college football. Guy had more wins in his first 6 seasons than Tom Osborne and Bob Devaney (both HOF coaches) and they fired him.

Some will say his tenure after Nebraska indicates they might've made the right decision. I would argue look what the idiot who fired Solich (Steve Pederson) did after that fateful decision.

He brought in Bill Callahan who cratered Nebraska's image of national dominance by going 27-22 over 4 years and was fired. Pederson goes back to Pitt after Nebraska, fires Wannstache, then hires wife beater Mike Haywood only to fire him a few weeks later and bring in one-year wonder Todd Graham.