The all-inclusive Rutgers dumpster fire thread...

[Arizona Knight]

That being said, the constant embarrassing issues that Rutgers has been having throughout their time in the B1G may rub some of these college presidents the wrong way, no? Bottom line, it is about money and if the B1G thinks that it would be financially beneficial to drop Rutgers and go in another direction, I think they would, and Rutgers has provided ample missteps for the conference to point to and not look like the bad guy.

You are trying too hard here. UNC had fake classes for over a decade. Louisville hired prostitutes for basketball recruits. Baylor's football team has raped half of Waco TX. Yet no coach has lost a job let alone has any school been kicked out of their conference.

 

[orangefog]

You are trying too hard here. UNC had fake classes for over a decade. Louisville hired prostitutes for basketball recruits. Baylor's football team has raped half of Waco TX. Yet no coach has lost a job let alone has any school been kicked out of their conference.

The thing is, I'm not trying at all, no effort required. I'm not saying that would be the actual reason, it would be one small reason, but the one put forth publicly. And there is a fundamental difference between UNC, Louisville and Baylor and then Rutgers.

 

[longtimefan]

You are trying too hard here. UNC had fake classes for over a decade. Louisville hired prostitutes for basketball recruits. Baylor's football team has raped half of Waco TX. Yet no coach has lost a job let alone has any school been kicked out of their conference.

We haven't heard the last about the Louisville situation, and certainly not about the Baylor mess.

UNC hoops is UNC hoops. They are likely to skate. And SU fans are none too happy about it.

But yes, no one is going to get booted from one of the P5 as they are now organized. Another round of realignment--or, heaven forbid, some serious consolidation--and all bets are off.

 

[HtownOrange]

I'm going to treat this as a sincere question and give it a response. The B1G just sold half of its rights to Fox for $250mm/annually. That's a staggering number but one that is in perfect alignment with what Delaney was projecting post aquisition of Rutgers and Maryland. That solidified eastern PA, New Jersey, New York City, Maryland, and Washington DC. It was a land grab for cable boxes, eyeballs, students, and recruits. It has been massively successful by any objective metric.

The chances of the B1G reversing course, a league that makes calculated moves at the speed of a glacier, is somewhere between zero and impossible.

Please provide a link to where this deal has been signed, sealed and delivered. I have not found one such article to support this claim. Not starting a fight, but many fans have claimed such but I cannot find proof.

 

[sutomcat]

Please provide a link to where this deal has been signed, sealed and delivered. I have not found one such article to support this claim. Not starting a fight, but many fans have claimed such but I cannot find proof.

Arizona Knight is mistaken. The $250 million was not for half the rights. That is the maximum amount Fox would pay the B1G if they got well over half the available inventory.
No one else has bid anywhere in the neighborhood of the Fox bid.

They will still be paid handsomely and I would not be surprised if they opt to take less money than what NBC, CBS, Turner, etc. offer to keep some of their games on ESPN.

The B1G coaches are lobbying hard to make that happen (just as the ACC coaches did when the ACC was close to switching from ESPN to Fox the last go around).

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Other than the fact that college presidents just don't do things like that, do you have any idea what it would cost, what with buyouts and litigation? Think about it. Athletic departments don't run conferences. College presidents do. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

It was college presidents that dropped Temple from the Big East, correct?

 

[HtownOrange]

Arizona Knight is mistaken. The $250 million was not for half the rights. That is the maximum amount Fox would pay the B1G if they got well over half the available inventory.
No one else has bid anywhere in the neighborhood of the Fox bid.

They will still be paid handsomely and I would not be surprised if they opt to take less money than what NBC, CBS, Turner, etc. offer to keep some of their games on ESPN.

The B1G coaches are lobbying hard to make that happen (just as the ACC coaches did when the ACC was close to switching from ESPN to Fox the last go around).

That was my understanding. Essentially, the following:

1) Nothing is signed, only a "framework"
2) FOX gets the best of the cream off the top, the price goes down if someone else wants the top half games
3) Fox does NOT have to carry all of these games (which would also drive the price down if Fox chooses to not broadcast the maximum number of games)
4) ESPN made an offer, neither side is close
5) NBC, CBS and any others are showing token interest at best
6) No one can justify why anyone would buy the bottom half of the B1G games for a matching amount
7) The BTN still needs some content

 

[orange79]

It was college presidents that dropped Temple from the Big East, correct?

After they (Temple) was given every chance to meet previously stated minimum requirements, and failed to meet them. Not because they were embarrassing (although, they were).

Now, if the B1G put embarrassment clauses in their bylaws, fair game!

 

[Arizona Knight]

That was my understanding. Essentially, the following:

1) Nothing is signed, only a "framework"
2) FOX gets the best of the cream off the top, the price goes down if someone else wants the top half games
3) Fox does NOT have to carry all of these games (which would also drive the price down if Fox chooses to not broadcast the maximum number of games)
4) ESPN made an offer, neither side is close
5) NBC, CBS and any others are showing token interest at best
6) No one can justify why anyone would buy the bottom half of the B1G games for a matching amount
7) The BTN still needs some content

Well there you have it. I'm pretty sure the $250mm also includes half the gate receipts from now until 2121. Or until Rutgers plays in the Rose Bowl. I figured I'd type it rather watch you guys trip over each other trying to say it first.

 

[WickedOrange]

What year does Rutgers' Athletics stop losing money?

How much revenue do they need to cover the subsidies?

Not an attack post, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[HtownOrange]

Well there you have it. I'm pretty sure the $250mm also includes half the gate receipts from now until 2121. Or until Rutgers plays in the Rose Bowl. I figured I'd type it rather watch you guys trip over each other trying to say it first.

I am willing to stand corrected and at some point will, we expect the B1G to sign a deal. To date, I cannot find where the deal has been signed.

I am not trying to start a fight, I am sincerely asking which points are wrong at this time. Please include links to support which points are wrong.

For the record, you are a good sport coming here and taking questions...along with some heat...and you have not taken anything personal nor have I observed you making things personal with others. Anyway, I look forward to your response.

 

[Jeepers]

Rutgers isn't going anywhere. Come on. Cable issues aside, they're still a decent state to recruit football in. They're a large state school, in a heavily populated state. They're a bridge to any potential future expansion schools (UVA, UNC, etc.) that get the B1G out of the rust belt. Blah blah blah.

That said, they still need to win. When it looked like Ash was going to be our coach, I watched videos of him, like many of us did. Did anyone else get a strong GRob vibe from him? I sure did. Scared the bejesus out of me. I think he'll be a huge failure. Seems dumb as rocks. I could be wrong, but was the same exact feeling from just hearing GRob give his intro presser.

 

[Resonator]

Rutgers isn't going anywhere. Come on. Cable issues aside, they're still a decent state to recruit football in. They're a large state school, in a heavily populated state. They're a bridge to any potential future expansion schools (UVA, UNC, etc.) that get the B1G out of the rust belt. Blah blah blah.

I would not hold my breath on either Carolina or Virginia leaving the ACC. Thats not happening anytime soon. If Jim Delany could not shake them loose back in 2011, it'll be 2027 before he gets another chance. Maryland was low hanging fruit. UNC and UVA are not Maryland. Both of those schools are far better run than College Park.

That said, they still need to win. When it looked like Ash was going to be our coach, I watched videos of him, like many of us did. Did anyone else get a strong GRob vibe from him? I sure did. Scared the bejesus out of me. I think he'll be a huge failure. Seems dumb as rocks. I could be wrong, but was the same exact feeling from just hearing GRob give his intro presser.

With MSU, UM, OSU, and, PSU in their division, Rutgers has a LONG climb in front of them just to reach respectability in football. Basketball is a disaster.

 

[Resonator]

That was my understanding. Essentially, the following:

1) Nothing is signed, only a "framework"
2) FOX gets the best of the cream off the top, the price goes down if someone else wants the top half games
3) Fox does NOT have to carry all of these games (which would also drive the price down if Fox chooses to not broadcast the maximum number
4) ESPN made an offer, neither side is close
5) NBC, CBS and any others are showing token interest at best
6) No one can justify why anyone would buy the bottom half of the B1G games for a matching amount
7) The BTN still needs some content

The B10 giving up the exposure ESPN gives them would be darn near suicidal. You can hardly put a price on that aspect of any new media contract.

It would not surprise me to see ESPN really lowball the league, or, walk away altogether, if Delany tries to be too difficult during negotiations.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

With MSU, UM, OSU, and, PSU in their division, Rutgers has a LONG climb in front of them just to reach respectability in football. Basketball is a disaster.

To me, this is the real reason why Rutgers is so valuable to BiG - they deliver access to large metropolitan areas on the east coast without being a real threat to the name-brand programs in the BiG. Every year MSU, UM, OSU, and PSU play a game in NYC metro area in football and basketball that allows their alums to attend or watch from the comforts of their own home. Yet, there is very little chance that Rutgers will impact the power structure. Rutgers is the ultimate visiting homecoming team for the BiG.

 

[HtownOrange]

The B10 giving up the exposure ESPN gives them would be darn near suicidal. You can hardly put a price on that aspect of any new media contract.

It would not surprise me to see ESPN really lowball the league, or, walk away altogether, if Delany tries to be too difficult during negotiations.

I agree. I think Fox was "helping" the B1G as a partner by announcing a generous package. Yet when one reads the fine print, the details are not quite as advertised.

If Fox "set" the price for the top games but has actually overpriced them, ESPN has no need or desire to overpay. Why would ESPN want to broadcast a game that costs farore per viewer when they can garner the same audience for much less.

Additionally, the per game cost seems very excessive as has been analyzed on this site. Perhaps a few of the marquee games are worth that amount but certainly not any game that is not marquee status I.e. Michigan v tOSU. No broadcaster is going to pay top dollar for Wisconsin v. PSU, and most definitely will not pay top dollar for an Indiana or Illinois game.

My opinion right now is that the Fox deal will be much smaller scale than advertised, both in quantity and value.

To your point, having nothing on ESPN, especially hoops, will hurt far more than people think. People will not look hard for obscure cable channels unless it is their team. Fox Sports can only show so many games. I think ESPN saw a chance to force the price down significantly and the B1G was given a wake up call.

I have no doubts that whatever the B1G settles on for a deal, it will be presented as the end of the world as we know it, the SEC may survive. The PAC will survive because they are west coast and the ACC and Big 12 will be sent packing and scrambling to join other conferences.

 

[HtownOrange]

To me, this is the real reason why Rutgers is so valuable to BiG - they deliver access to large metropolitan areas on the east coast without being a real threat to the name-brand programs in the BiG. Every year MSU, UM, OSU, and PSU play a game in NYC metro area and basketball that allows their alums to attend or watch from the comforts of their own home. Yet, there is very little chance that Rutgers will impact the power structure. Rutgers is the ultimate visiting homecoming team for the BiG.

Fair assessment.

I like to think Delaney wanted SU and hosed the timing and got stuck with Rutgers. All of the comments about getting NYC and DC are screwball comments. If Delaney was have the genius everyone claims he would secured SU first - the last of the biggest population states, then Jersey, Carolina and Virginia. He got two broken run down Athletic Departments.

 

[Resonator]

To me, this is the real reason why Rutgers is so valuable to BiG - they deliver access to large metropolitan areas on the east coast without being a real threat to the name-brand programs in the BiG. Every year MSU, UM, OSU, and PSU play a game in NYC metro area in football and basketball that allows their alums to attend or watch from the comforts of their own home. Yet, there is very little chance that Rutgers will impact the power structure. Rutgers is the ultimate visiting homecoming team for the BiG.

Does Rutgers really deliver a large metropolitan area to the B10? Really?

There are lots of NYers living here in NC, and, solely from my own experience, NONE of them are RU fans.

Totally agree that RU won't impact thepower structure within the league anytime soon.

 

[Resonator]

I agree. I think Fox was "helping" the B1G as a partner by announcing a generous package. Yet when one reads the fine print, the details are not quite as advertised.

Thats always the fly in the ointment...the details.

If Fox "set" the price for the top games but has actually overpriced them, ESPN has no need or desire to overpay. Why would ESPN want to broadcast a game that costs farore per viewer when they can garner the same audience for much less.

Additionally, the per game cost seems very excessive as has been analyzed on this site. Perhaps a few of the marquee games are worth that amount but certainly not any game that is not marquee status I.e. Michigan v tOSU. No broadcaster is going to pay top dollar for Wisconsin v. PSU, and most definitely will not pay top dollar for an Indiana or Illinois game.

My opinion right now is that the Fox deal will be much smaller scale than advertised, both in quantity and value.

Totally agree with all of this. Anybody who has followed this at all knows that the $50-60M per team some B10 fanboys were predicting wasn't going to happen. I do think $40M/school is realistic, though.

To your point, having nothing on ESPN, especially hoops, will hurt far more than people think. People will not look hard for obscure cable channels unless it is their team. Fox Sports can only show so many games. I think ESPN saw a chance to force the price down significantly and the B1G was given a wake up call.

Anyone who doubts needing ESPN only need look at the Pac-12 and Big 12, who have the least exposure on ESPN. Their fans are always grumbling about not being able to find their games on TV.

I have no doubts that whatever the B1G settles on for a deal, it will be presented as the end of the world as we know it, the SEC may survive. The PAC will survive because they are west coast and the ACC and Big 12 will be sent packing and scrambling to join other conferences.

The ACC is not going anywhere. As long as UNC, UVA, Clemson, and, FSU are committed, the league will be strong. You can be sure that neither UNC nor UVA will be the first to walk away from the league that they helped found. I do not believe that Clemson will, either.

What many folks seem to forget where the money talk is concerned is that the B10 has ALWAYS had a large financial advantage on us. Even when these media deals were not a point for fanboys to talk about. Yet, we still competed for, and won, national championships. That isn't going to change just because the B10 and SEC seem to have broken the bank of late.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

Does Rutgers really deliver a large metropolitan area to the B10? Really?

There are lots of NYers living here in NC, and, solely from my own experience, NONE of them are RU fans.

Totally agree that RU won't impact thepower structure within the league anytime soon.

I didn't say they "deliver" NYC metro area (they don't). Simply, adding Rutgers allowed the B1G to get more cable boxes and annex a metropolitan area where other (more prominent) B1G schools have large alumni populations. Rutgers provides access without any real threat to disrupting the name-brand powers of the B1G.

 

[Townie72]

I didn't say they "deliver" NYC metro area (they don't). Simply, adding Rutgers allowed the B1G to get more cable boxes and annex a metropolitan area where other (more prominent) B1G schools have large alumni populations. Rutgers provides access without any real threat to disrupting the name-brand powers of the B1G.

I think of the B1G's incorporation of RU as being similar to a real estate transaction where the buyer really wants only the land a house sits on and not the house itself.

The home owner may be all a-twitter with the compliment such an offer suggests, but they are deludng themselves. The B1G had to hold its nose at RU's long history of athletic failure to get access to the money these cable boxes represent.

When you are as bad as RU has been in as many sports as they have been the reasons are more deep-seated than just a need for more money.

 

[retro44]

For me, yes. My profile is 43, employed, and a father of 3. I don't watch the NBA, MLB or NHL anymore. I used to when I was single, with copious amounts of free time, but now I just don't have the bandwidth. So my passion is College Football, then a big drop off the the NFL and College Hoops. I have been a DirecTV subscriber for probably 15 years and pay about $160/month.

I have three boxes in my house (well one outside) and a TV in the man cave hooked up to a laptop. I have Amazon, HBO2Go, Apple TV and God knows what else but it suits me fine. The only thing stopping me is sports and what I care about will now be available OTA and on BTN2Go.

Saves me about $2k a year. Only thing that might stop me would be DVR'ing OTA capabilities but my guess is that is either covered already or will be by the time 2017 arrives.

I can assure you, as ESPN is losing subscribers to cord-cutting and overall sh!tty content, this will be part of their calculus.

I am with you on the pro sports...Way too many players sign contracts and then don't live by the wording...Egos

 

[retro44]

I think of the B1G's incorporation of RU as being similar to a real estate transaction where the buyer really wants only the land a house sits on and not the house itself.

The home owner may be all a-twitter with the compliment such an offer suggests, but they are deludng themselves. The B1G had to hold its nose at RU's long history of athletic failure to get access to the money these cable boxes represent.

When you are as bad as RU has been in as many sports as they have been the reasons are more deep-seated than just a need for more money.

Like like Skaneateles down by me

 

[retro44]

I will take my cousins word over all else when he said that Marrone told him we had had a standing offer from the
Big Ten twice over to join. Marrone and Gedney both attended my aunts wake. Marrone and My cousin were close when he coached here. Doug when away from the mic and field was a great guy to talk to. Gross went around and asked all Syracuse coaches...ACC or Big 10. We now know the answer

 

[Townie72]

I will take my cousins word over all else when he said that Marrone told him we had had a standing offer from the
Big Ten twice over to join. Marrone and Gedney both attended my aunts wake. Marrone and My cousin were close when he coached here. Doug when away from the mic and field was a great guy to talk to. Gross went around and asked all Syracuse coaches...ACC or Big 10. We now know the answer

Why would the University care all that much about what the coach's say about something as important to the University as joing the B1G or ACC or any major conference switch?