"The Zone" is why we are in this mess...

[DPCuse]

If the problem is the zone, then why has Coach K started using it more in recent years? Has the game passed him by as well? The fact is, the zone was very good the last couple years. Are we to believe teams have all of a sudden figured it out after 35 years? It's the personnel. Period. And I blame part of that on the NCAA sanctions. We will bounce back in time. Relax. Switching to a different defense will not cure our ills this year.

 

[alphaorange]

But don't you think this could also be, in part, a result of playing strictly zone? Quality big men may not want to spend their college years playing a D that is illegal in the NBA.

Zone is legal in the NBA. Many teams play it situationally.

 

[rrlbees]

lets not kid ourselves and say that last years teams zone didn't have its hole! It did get dominated by a really bad St Johns team that set up 3-4 guys around the 3pt line and drained 3 after 3. I just think the zone has been figured out by most coaches and the teams that have the shooters to hit consistent 3's can easily pick apart the zone.

We were 18th in the country in 3pt fg% defense and 25 in scoring defense.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

Zone is legal in the NBA. Many teams play it situationally.

A Center can't plant himself in the paint for more than 3 seconds & wait to block shots like he can in college.

 

[Jack Hall]

If the problem is the zone, then why has Coach K started using it more in recent years? Has the game passed him by as well? The fact is, the zone was very good the last couple years. Are we to believe teams have all of a sudden figured it out after 35 years? It's the personnel. Period. And I blame part of that on the NCAA sanctions. We will bounce back in time. Relax. Switching to a different defense will not cure our ills this year.

The ONLY argument i can see to switch to man is an attempt to snap these guys out of their funk, just some random catalyst. I have never seen so many SU guys with that deer in the headlight look . Might need some new catalyst. What it is i dont know but maybe JB can find it

 

[rrlbees]

We were 18th in the country in 3pt fg% defense and 25 in scoring defense.

And before today we were 19th and 11th.

 

[NorSyr66]

The ONLY argument i can see to switch to man is an attempt to snap these guys out of their funk, just some random catalyst. I have never seen so many SU guys with that deer in the headlight look . Might need some new catalyst. What it is i dont know but maybe JB can find it

My suggestion is to press the entire game. This team is going no where and lets make both teams work. Who knows, maybe we can get better at the press. Being down to 8 key players requires two more to have 10 man rotation. Add Autry Jr and Akintobi-Adeyeye to the second team and put on a full time press. We can not zone and we can not go M2M so what else is there. Good thing Jimmy does not have much hair since he would be pulling it out. Everyone is frustrated at this point - the players, the coaches and the fans.

 

[Jasoncuse]

If the problem is the zone, then why has Coach K started using it more in recent years? Has the game passed him by as well? The fact is, the zone was very good the last couple years. Are we to believe teams have all of a sudden figured it out after 35 years? It's the personnel. Period. And I blame part of that on the NCAA sanctions. We will bounce back in time. Relax. Switching to a different defense will not cure our ills this year.

The problem is the zone dictates everything about this program. It's not just that the team is struggling playing it this year, it's that the team is built solely to fit the zone. The personnel brought in is for the zone which means recruiting longer, rangier athletes. Outside of the top 25 types, you don't find many offensively skilled players that also happen to be prototypes for the zone, especially at PG. You find offensive projects and kids with warts that you hope can develop offensive skills.

Then when you add 5th years that don't fit the zone or have the experience, You see how poor the results can be.

And it's harder to find talented kids who also have prototypical zone attributes. When you start missing on them, it exacerbates the problem. When you limit your recruiting base, the problem gets even worse. When you play 100% zone and base everything around it, you have no wiggle room when things go haywire.

 

[Jasoncuse]

And before today we were 19th and 11th.

We're also 25-38 against Power 5, Big East and Gonzaga since our 25-0 start in 2014. I don't have the defensive numbers in those games but I'm guessing they're nowhere near top 20 nationally. The zone can work against nobodies but sure seems like something has gone amiss against bigger programs. Offensively and defensively, things have gone way down.

 

[orangehomer]

In my opinion switching to m2m might expose the soft qualities of this team even more, but what the heck, give it a try, after SJ and BC what is there to lose? Seriously

at least a switch to m2m makes accountability obvious. accountability comes from the top down, and there is none on this team and that starts with mr. boeheim. the staff go rickrolled by the Andrew white camp. it was a huge mistake and a huge embarrassment that out staff got hustled by this kid. he is a crap player, doesn't give a damn about being here, and has tanked our season and his own chances of being a pro.

 

[orangehomer]

We were 18th in the country in 3pt fg% defense and 25 in scoring defense.

so you are sticking to bad statistics that are skewed by lopsided wins against bad teams, rather than trust you eyes about how we have been rolled by other bad teams?

 

[Jack Hall]

at least a switch to m2m makes accountability obvious. accountability comes from the top down, and there is none on this team and that starts with mr. boeheim. the staff go rickrolled by the Andrew white camp. it was a huge mistake and a huge embarrassment that out staff got hustled by this kid. he is a crap player, doesn't give a damn about being here, and has tanked our season and his own chances of being a pro.

Hes not the only problem on this team imo but who knows maybe he was the first catalyst. I see several players who wish they might have gone somewhere else right now. Imo they need to get over it and start bleeding Orange

 

[orangehomer]

Hes not the only problem on this team imo but who knows maybe he was the first catalyst. I see several players who wish they might have gone somewhere else right now. Imo they need to get over it and start bleeding Orange

I think he is the whole problem. he big-boyed the staff and showed up at the last possible minute, because i'm sure shooting jumpers with his dad was better than ya know, maybe playing with his actual future teammates. worse yet is that JB has completely given him the keys with zero accountability. frank howard gets rode over the rails for every turnover, yet white plays defense, is a chucker, and commits bad turnovers and plays 30+ minutes. what kind of message does that send? any minute that white plays the rest of this season is boeheim being stupid for some reason that i can not explain. the kid hasn't won anywhere.

 

[Jack Hall]

The problem is the zone dictates everything about this program. It's not just that the team is struggling playing it this year, it's that the team is built solely to fit the zone. The personnel brought in is for the zone which means recruiting longer, rangier athletes. Outside of the top 25 types, you don't find many offensively skilled players that also happen to be prototypes for the zone, especially at PG. You find offensive projects and kids with warts that you hope can develop offensive skills.

Then when you add 5th years that don't fit the zone or have the experience, You see how poor the results can be.

And it's harder to find talented kids who also have prototypical zone attributes. When you start missing on them, it exacerbates the problem. When you limit your recruiting base, the problem gets even worse. When you play 100% zone and base everything around it, you have no wiggle room when things go haywire.

Many great points but KJ wasnt solely recruited for the zone (ie not a prototypical zone player) and he was still a bust at SU. Then look at Gillon this year...

 

[Jasoncuse]

Many great points but KJ wasnt solely recruited for the zone (ie not a prototypical zone player) and he was still a bust at SU. Then look at Gillon this year...

KJ is 6'3" with longer arms, I believe. He fit the zone, though I agree he wasnt solely recruited for the zone. Gillon doesn't count since he was a last resort addition.

On the other hand, Frank Howard is 100% a zone recruit that they hoped could develop into a PG. Thats been a failure. He's not athletic enough, skilled enough with the ball in his hands or strong enough with his dribble to be a high end PG IMO.

 

[Jack Hall]

I think he is the whole problem. he big-boyed the staff and showed up at the last possible minute, because i'm sure shooting jumpers with his dad was better than ya know, maybe playing with his actual future teammates. worse yet is that JB has completely given him the keys with zero accountability. frank howard gets rode over the rails for every turnover, yet white plays . . . . defense, is a chucker, and commits bad turnovers and plays 30+ minutes. what kind of message does that send? any minute that white plays the rest of this season is boeheim being stupid for some reason that i can not explain. the kid hasn't won anywhere.

Have you ever seen Howard and Gillon help each other out or high five ea other? But i get your point, the whole 5th yr senior transfer thing obviously backfired on chemistry bigtime this year.

In the end imo college ball is dictated by great guard play and i think this team knows we just dont wont have it this year

 

[We Are Syracuse]

We're also 25-38 against Power 5, Big East and Gonzaga since our 25-0 start in 2014. I don't have the defensive numbers in those games but I'm guessing they're nowhere near top 20 nationally. The zone can work against nobodies but sure seems like something has gone amiss against bigger programs. Offensively and defensively, things have gone way down.

Wow 25-38 is terrible. Didn't know that and that's very telling. The zone isn't the problem it's the head coach. He's done a horrible job with this team in every way. Now we have a program looking at a LAST place finish in the ACC with a weak recruiting class coming in. Hard to believe the recruiting class will get any better with this joke of a season. Our development of players is very concerning. Everyone has played like total garbage this year for the most part. Hard to even get excited for next year even if Lydon comes back. This team has a lot more improvement to be done just to go .500 in the ACC next year.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Does anyone really want to see Gillon vs good ACC caliber guards one one one, White, Thompson down low one on one when we get into the meat of the ACC?? I don't..

 

[two3zone]

Does anyone really want to see Gillon vs good ACC caliber guards one one one, White, Thompson down low one on one when we get into the meat of the ACC?? I don't..

What's the alternative? I don't care if I never see Frank Howard play another minute. May be the worst point guard in our history.

 

[longislandcuse]

Does anyone really want to see Gillon vs good ACC caliber guards one one one, White, Thompson down low one on one when we get into the meat of the ACC?? I don't..

I'd absolutely rather see Gillon try to defend one on one vs seeing his 5'5 self running out at shooters.

 

[Jasoncuse]

What's the alternative? I don't care if I never see Frank Howard play another minute. May be the worst point guard in our history.

Maybe not theee worst, but probably close. He's also not a PG and has never looked like one here.

I like Gillon, but he isn't big enough or strong enough to play consistently well at this level. Good mid-major player though.

 

[rrlbees]

the staff go rickrolled by the Andrew white camp. it was a huge mistake and a huge embarrassment that out staff got hustled by this kid. he is a crap player, doesn't give a damn about being here, and has tanked our season and his own chances of being a pro.

That's over dramatic bull.

We lost three 3 point threats. We went after white because we needed some 3pt shooting. He's averaging 15ppg and is shooting a higher percentage from 3 than the guys last year.

And the coaches don't take a player based upon a players camp. You don't think they watched him play? They didn't get rick rolled.

 

[rrlbees]

no wonder the other players hate him.

More dramatics

 

[longislandcuse]

I'd agree that White seems to be unfairly scapegoated on here. People make it seem like he's player/coach and designs all the plays for himself. I'm sure JB greenlights him because everyone else is afraid or can't dribble.

 

[ssbriefcase]

What's the alternative? I don't care if I never see Frank Howard play another minute. May be the worst point guard in our history.

I wasn't talking anything about Howard. So you want to see Gillon try and guard a real ACC guard? He couldn't even stay on red hair.