This game proves one thing

[CorduroyG]

it proves if dirty shot the ball well in the final 4 we win the whole thing.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Interesting theory. And yet, JB was known for the majority of his career as an offensive coach. It's really only been the last few years where the zone defense has been a significant differentiator [IMO].

I think a more likely thesis is that this year's team just had offensive limitations, versus JB recruits defense first and offense second. If Dion Waiters [for example] had been on this team, then maybe we wouldn't have been quite so anemic. We'd have had another shooter, and a guy who could get a basket at crunch time when we needed one--a skill lacking on this year's team. :noidea:

I would argue that Dion is one of those transcendent players who have are elite athletes and elite basketball players which is why he was so coveted in the NBA. Basically regardless of the system you play you recruit Dion. My belief is that since we won the title in 03 JB has gotten the reputation as a zone guru and has doubled down on it in terms of making it his identity and the team's identity. Luckily in our recent golden years we have a few really good basketball players (AO, Andy, Wes for a college player at least, Dion) an in those years we could score and play D. But there was many years where we couldn't play D (Flynn, Donte, Paul Harris, Devo) because we had the wrong players for the zone or we had teams who couldn't score worth crap (this year, the TROB/Mookie,Nichols teams), the team with Dion as a freshman. This year's team was the extreme case of having a great zone team but a terrible offensive team because we don't have one player with a complete offensive game.

I think it shows that if we cam recruit a few basketball players who are also elite athletes for the zone we are in for a really good year because the zone is scarier than it ever has been in the past... we just need to make sure we recruit a few shooters and dribblers to go with it.

 

[longtimefan]

I don't see how--why would those things be mutually exclusive?

Not totally mutually exclusive, but. . .

A theory--the defense slows the opponents down so much that the entire game is played at a slower pace, which is not conducive to the tempo that our offense would like to play at.

 

[RF2044]

Not totally mutually exclusive, but. . .

A theory--the defense slows the opponents down so much that the entire game is played at a slower pace, which is not conducive to the tempo that our offense would like to play at.

Nah. What was suggested above was that JB recruits for defense over offense. It had nothing to do with tempo.

 

[HoustonCuse]

We gave up 25 points in the second half. if we'd done that in the first half, we win, even with the bad offesne.

A defense that forces a team to shoot 35 foot jumpers is doing its job. The team that hits two of them? Well I guess they win by 5.

 

[CaptainJ]

Their coach did a damned good job of preparing having them shoot over paddles in practice, as well as jacking it from wherever by whoever when he blew the whistle, to prepare for the zone. Of course they also nailed some long ones tonight as well. Pitino called them the best shooting team he's ever faced. I think he may have overdone it, but yeah they sure can drain some out of the area code shots.

 

[Knicks411]

Nah. What was suggested above was that JB recruits for defense over offense. It had nothing to do with tempo.

Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, no one was making this argument last year. Or the year before, etc, when we had really good offenses.

It just happened this year that our defense was much further ahead of our offense. I don't think it really means anything about JB's system or anything like that.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, no one was making this argument last year. Or the year before, etc, when we had really good offenses.

It just happened this year that our defense was much further ahead of our offense. I don't think it really means anything about JB's system or anything like that.

I agree. It's that this years personnel was so suited for the zone. It wasn't said when we had RJ at the 4, or Johnny at the point, or Eric at the sg, or Paul H at the 3. And DC2 isn't really a zone recruit.

But I do get the feeling if everything is close to equal the zone benefits come into play. And with the uptick in recruiting/selection/choice of players it looks like SU is continuing in that direction. MG, Buss, Roberson, BJ, and McCollough all are lengthy athletic types.

I think the missing ingredient for our team is the post game. We need that back. If DC2 or Grant can provide this soon it will go a long way in providing more consistency out of the O. Furthermore, if our staff had the opportunity to recruit a big time post game I don't think our staff would care much what he looks like -they just tried it with DC2.

 

[br801]

For all the talk about how bad the offense was, we were 22nd in the country in offensive efficiency, and one year removed from a season where we were 6th in offensive efficiency. In this 5 year run we've had, our offensive efficiency has ranked higher than our defensive efficiency in 3 of the 5 years. Our defense has been in the top 10 one time. (This year)

So I think, in general, we may be going a little too far with how great the zone is (in a historical sense, I mean. No question we had a great defense this year, and they've been in the top 20 the last 3 years, but it's not like this is a top 5 defense every year) and also how bad the offense is. It wasn't all that bad this year, and 3 of the last 5 years have seen a top 11 offense in the country.

Good stuff. Posts (and posters) like this are what sets this board apart.

 

[dollarbill44]

Interesting theory. And yet, JB was known for the majority of his career as an offensive coach. It's really only been the last few years where the zone defense has been a significant differentiator [IMO].

I think a more likely thesis is that this year's team just had offensive limitations, versus JB recruits defense first and offense second. If Dion Waiters [for example] had been on this team, then maybe we wouldn't have been quite so anemic. We'd have had another shooter, and a guy who could get a basket at crunch time when we needed one--a skill lacking on this year's team. :noidea:

I think you're right. In 2010, we had the complete team. Great defense and great offense before AO's injury.

 

[dollarbill44]

Not totally mutually exclusive, but. . .

A theory--the defense slows the opponents down so much that the entire game is played at a slower pace, which is not conducive to the tempo that our offense would like to play at.

Not every team attacks the zone as deliberately as Georgetown, Butler, Marquette, etc. Temple didn't. OSU didn't last year. You don't have to run the shot clock down all the way to get off decent shots. A lot of teams with inferior talent will use this tactic to keep the score down, which keeps the game closer and gives them a better chance to win. Limit the time of possession of your opponent to keep them from scoring too much.

 

[CaliCuse]

Our d was simply amazing this season. We were the only team to slow this offense down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It also showed that fouling out McGeary was a tactic we DIDN'T employ near enough by going to the basket. Sure the zone has its place in the game especially the way Jim deploys his players but thats defense. On offense at times Joimmy tends to screw the pooch tactic wise.