Today Dino needs to be locked up

[Cusefan69]

This thread has gone a tad bit off the rails. People are actually getting angry about hypotheticals around our current coaches contract situation. Last I checked he is still our coach. Last I heard, Wildhack per an interview is very aware of what he needs to do and there is no reason to not believe him and last I read tonight Babers has a good sized buyout. So the odds of him going anywhere soon are likely pretty low.
So people should relax, enjoy that our season didn’t end a month ago like in prior years, start pencilling in plans for Orlando and maybe wait to get angry about Babers leaving for being underpaid when that actually happens? Go Cuse!

 

[longislandcuse]

This thread has gone a tad bit off the rails. People are actually getting angry about hypotheticals around our current coaches contract situation. Last I checked he is still our coach. Last I heard, Wildhack per an interview is very aware of what he needs to do and there is no reason to not believe him and last I read tonight Babers has a good sized buyout. So the odds of him going anywhere soon are likely pretty low.
So people should relax, enjoy that our season didn’t end a month ago like in prior years, start pencilling in plans for Orlando and maybe wait to get angry about Babers leaving for being underpaid when that actually happens? Go Cuse!

Ive had nothing to be angry about since ND. Don’t you dare take this from me..

 

[721Comstock]

Seems like a good time to post this again:

USA TODAY Sports

ACC:
Richt, Fuente, and Cheatrino (LOL) are/were all at the $4m a year level.
ONLY Dabo and Taggart are higher - which makes sense, Clemson & FSU are Football Factory type schools, and need to pay accordingly.

Y'all really think we're going to match or beat The U, Va Tech, and Llvll for coaching salaries??
I think that's kinda a stretch, and all 3 of those guys had prior and better palmares going into those gigs than Dino did.
We don't have a sugar daddy booster, nor are we a land-grant state school.

Bronco is getting $3.55m, and then Johnson, NardDog, and Doeren are all at around $3m.

Dino will likely get something with a 3-handle on it, which even if it's "only" $3.6M, for example, is nearly a 50% raise from what he's reportedly getting now.
Add in a buyout for somewhere in the $12-15M range, so IF he gets poached down the road, we'll have the war chest to pay up for his replacement.

Throw in a matching pool for all his assistants, and add incentives for various success metrics such that he/they can get over $4m in a good/great season, and that, along with the Dome improvements, and legit opportunity to compete for championships -
but without all the pressure of having to "win it all" every year, should be enough to make everybody happy.

 

[rrlbees]

It should be “out of character” because we were never negotiating Football contracts with a legit HC/Staff in the ACC.

Not trying to come off angry towards you, but I’ll sour on this program REAL quick if they operate under the same financial principles in the ACC as they did in the Big East.

Dino is our ticket back to Football relevance. If they don’t do everything in their power to “lock him up”, it’s basically a big screw you to the fan base and to ever truly competing in the ACC.

Our previous 3 HCs were getting between $1.1m and $1.6m. So we’re well past the BE days.

 

[orangecuse]

Our previous 3 HCs were getting between $1.1m and $1.6m. So we’re well past the BE days.

No doubt. However, considering the approx. $20 mil/year plus surplus since gifted with the ACC invite, even paying Dino $4/mil per year would be proportional less than in respective comparison to BE revenue.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

You need to read the article that explains why Nick Saban is worth $7 mil a year to the university of Alabama and why.

Nick Saban Will Make $11 Million Next Football Season And He Is Worth Every Penny

The exposure to the university from the football team alone is immeasurable. The out of state attendance is up, which translates to more academic revenue, student body is increasing, all attributable to the football team winning.

It happens to every university that wins the basketball national championship, its not a fluke.

What College Basketball Success Means for Schools Like Villanova

The Impact of College Sports Success on the Quantity and Quality of Student Applications

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/devin.pope/research/pdf/Website_SEJ Sports.pdf

Sports success is good for the University. PERIOD. Not accepting it is ridiculous.

Did you actually read the articles? I only read the second one you cited. I spent much of my time while reading thinking the author was really cherry picking examples, then he wrote this:

"While some question the degree to which the Flutie Effect or Final Four Effect truly nudges applications skyward—in many cases, applications were rising for other reasons not related to sports—most agree there’s some noticeable impact.
“Whether we can say it was directly caused by the run for the Final Four, there’s no statistical proof,” Dr. Robert Baker, director of the center for sport management at George Mason, told USA Today a couple of years ago. “But in reality, the correlation is so strong between those things happening and the vast amount of exposure, you can draw that assumption that they were related.”
The big takeaway is that all of this exposure heightens a school’s profile—especially if it was a fairly low profile to begin with—resulting in more student applications, more selectivity in who gets accepted, and (perhaps) higher enrollment overall. While this scenario can make it more difficult for students hoping to get into these institutions, the boost to a school’s reputation works out nicely for alumni (like me, ‘Nova Class of ’95), even if the team never got within a sniff of the Final Four when they were students."

I don't recall Syracuse University achieving any real positive impact from the 2003 Natty. In fact, our rankings declined precipitously. Villanova was very much a school on the come when they went to the final four in 2009. And the notion that all these smart, well-to-do, preppy kids started applying en mass to Georgetown "because of Patrick Ewing" is patently absurd.

It's nice the schools get some free publicity. I think there is a long term benefit in the form of increasing student morale, thereby creating more active alums.

I truly wonder how much more revenue Dino has the capacity to bring into the University/AD. Unless the Team makes a Playoff/Championship game (an incredible long shot), our share of ACC revenue is locked in. We've stopped the money grab games with big payouts. What's the difference in revenue generated by 6k to 7k more fans per game? That's basically what he contributes.

As a lifelong fan, alum, donor, and maybe even parent some day, I'd love to see sustained success in football again. But i think the University must, and will be judicious with its money.

Also, this notion that we are going to "lock" Dino up is absurd. Coaches leave. Jimbo just jumped from what most would consider to be a top 15 job. The "stress" got to Stoops, and it will eventually get to Meyer (again). Saban and Harbaugh are thought to be annual candidates for NFL jobs. And these are coaches at the selector schools, the pinnacle, and they pay insane amounts to retain them.

 

[blust2i3d4]

This post makes it apparent you do not follow recruiting closely. The level of recruit we are bringing in is like night and day compared to 3 years ago.

You can have the best QB in the world, but if you don't have the surrounding cast you end up with 4-8 seasons. We're 9-3. Do you think that happened ONLY because of Dungey?

Not entirely. But QB is that important.

 

[upperdeck]

You are failing to realize we are in an arms race already, with every other school that is willing to pay him.

It's not hard to figure out what his market is and pay him to stay.

What he is worth as a coach doesn't change because you aren't willing to pay him. He can just leave to go somewhere that will pay.

Would you take less at a job just because they won't pay or would you go to do the same job elsewhere that would pay 40% more.

I know I would...

i already work at a job where i could make twice as much but i like where i am more than changing just for money.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Seems like a good time to post this again:

USA TODAY Sports

ACC:
Richt, Fuente, and Cheatrino (LOL) are/were all at the $4m a year level.
ONLY Dabo and Taggart are higher - which makes sense, Clemson & FSU are Football Factory type schools, and need to pay accordingly.

Y'all really think we're going to match or beat The U, Va Tech, and Llvll for coaching salaries??
I think that's kinda a stretch, and all 3 of those guys had prior and better palmares going into those gigs than Dino did.
We don't have a sugar daddy booster, nor are we a land-grant state school.

Bronco is getting $3.55m, and then Johnson, NardDog, and Doeren are all at around $3m.

Dino will likely get something with a 3-handle on it, which even if it's "only" $3.6M, for example, is nearly a 50% raise from what he's reportedly getting now.
Add in a buyout for somewhere in the $12-15M range, so IF he gets poached down the road, we'll have the war chest to pay up for his replacement.

Throw in a matching pool for all his assistants, and add incentives for various success metrics such that he/they can get over $4m in a good/great season, and that, along with the Dome improvements, and legit opportunity to compete for championships -
but without all the pressure of having to "win it all" every year, should be enough to make everybody happy.

Gave you a like because it was a good, well researched post, but even if the post sucked I would have still given it a like for NardDog.

 

[CuseOnly]

There's a curmudgeon that might disagree with you.

Which curmud

Did you actually read the articles? I only read the second one you cited. I spent much of my time while reading thinking the author was really cherry picking examples, then he wrote this:

"While some question the degree to which the Flutie Effect or Final Four Effect truly nudges applications skyward—in many cases, applications were rising for other reasons not related to sports—most agree there’s some noticeable impact.
“Whether we can say it was directly caused by the run for the Final Four, there’s no statistical proof,” Dr. Robert Baker, director of the center for sport management at George Mason, told USA Today a couple of years ago. “But in reality, the correlation is so strong between those things happening and the vast amount of exposure, you can draw that assumption that they were related.”
The big takeaway is that all of this exposure heightens a school’s profile—especially if it was a fairly low profile to begin with—resulting in more student applications, more selectivity in who gets accepted, and (perhaps) higher enrollment overall. While this scenario can make it more difficult for students hoping to get into these institutions, the boost to a school’s reputation works out nicely for alumni (like me, ‘Nova Class of ’95), even if the team never got within a sniff of the Final Four when they were students."

I don't recall Syracuse University achieving any real positive impact from the 2003 Natty. In fact, our rankings declined precipitously. Villanova was very much a school on the come when they went to the final four in 2009. And the notion that all these smart, well-to-do, preppy kids started applying en mass to Georgetown "because of Patrick Ewing" is patently absurd.

It's nice the schools get some free publicity. I think there is a long term benefit in the form of increasing student morale, thereby creating more active alums.

I truly wonder how much more revenue Dino has the capacity to bring into the University/AD. Unless the Team makes a Playoff/Championship game (an incredible long shot), our share of ACC revenue is locked in. We've stopped the money grab games with big payouts. What's the difference in revenue generated by 6k to 7k more fans per game? That's basically what he contributes.

As a lifelong fan, alum, donor, and maybe even parent some day, I'd love to see sustained success in football again. But i think the University must, and will be judicious with its money.

Also, this notion that we are going to "lock" Dino up is absurd. Coaches leave. Jimbo just jumped from what most would consider to be a top 15 job. The "stress" got to Stoops, and it will eventually get to Meyer (again). Saban and Harbaugh are thought to be annual candidates for NFL jobs. And these are coaches at the selector schools, the pinnacle, and they pay insane amounts to retain them.

You must have cherry picked and completely missed that article about Nick Saban and why he is worth what he is to the school and that attendance is up almost 14,000 students and that they are being MORE selective with applicants.

All attributable to Saban being there and having a winning Championship football program.

 

[nzm136]

Not the thread title I’d want to read on my fan website if I were coach.

I had images of a lot of chains and a basement.

 

[anomander]

Where did you read that? I would like to read that? I have been searching for buyout info.

The author of this article posted it somewhere in the comment section.

Louisville Football: Coaching Hot Board 3.0

 

[CuseOnly]

Did you actually read the articles? I only read the second one you cited. I spent much of my time while reading thinking the author was really cherry picking examples, then he wrote this:

"While some question the degree to which the Flutie Effect or Final Four Effect truly nudges applications skyward—in many cases, applications were rising for other reasons not related to sports—most agree there’s some noticeable impact.
“Whether we can say it was directly caused by the run for the Final Four, there’s no statistical proof,” Dr. Robert Baker, director of the center for sport management at George Mason, told USA Today a couple of years ago. “But in reality, the correlation is so strong between those things happening and the vast amount of exposure, you can draw that assumption that they were related.”
The big takeaway is that all of this exposure heightens a school’s profile—especially if it was a fairly low profile to begin with—resulting in more student applications, more selectivity in who gets accepted, and (perhaps) higher enrollment overall. While this scenario can make it more difficult for students hoping to get into these institutions, the boost to a school’s reputation works out nicely for alumni (like me, ‘Nova Class of ’95), even if the team never got within a sniff of the Final Four when they were students."

I don't recall Syracuse University achieving any real positive impact from the 2003 Natty. In fact, our rankings declined precipitously. Villanova was very much a school on the come when they went to the final four in 2009. And the notion that all these smart, well-to-do, preppy kids started applying en mass to Georgetown "because of Patrick Ewing" is patently absurd.

It's nice the schools get some free publicity. I think there is a long term benefit in the form of increasing student morale, thereby creating more active alums.

I truly wonder how much more revenue Dino has the capacity to bring into the University/AD. Unless the Team makes a Playoff/Championship game (an incredible long shot), our share of ACC revenue is locked in. We've stopped the money grab games with big payouts. What's the difference in revenue generated by 6k to 7k more fans per game? That's basically what he contributes.

As a lifelong fan, alum, donor, and maybe even parent some day, I'd love to see sustained success in football again. But i think the University must, and will be judicious with its money.

Also, this notion that we are going to "lock" Dino up is absurd. Coaches leave. Jimbo just jumped from what most would consider to be a top 15 job. The "stress" got to Stoops, and it will eventually get to Meyer (again). Saban and Harbaugh are thought to be annual candidates for NFL jobs. And these are coaches at the selector schools, the pinnacle, and they pay insane amounts to retain them.

GO back and read page #27 of the Devin and Jaren Pope study I provided you in the 3rd link.

There is a direct link in that study and it also brings up all of the prior studies on the subject. Yes, the study and evidence is 31 pages.

 

[elimunelson]

Which curmud

You must have cherry picked and completely missed that article about Nick Saban and why he is worth what he is to the school and that attendance is up almost 14,000 students and that they are being MORE selective with applicants.

All attributable to Saban being there and having a winning Championship football program.

That school's identity is completely engulfed in football. even if Saban wasn't there Alabama will pay above market for a football coach. The best case scenario for them is they paid above market for the best in the biz and have leveraged that into a better academic situation there.

We have the academics at Syracuse, football is a part of the experience if you attend SU, not the sole experience like Alabama. Football can certainly spike applications. I saw the Flutie impact at BC and then, to a smaller degree, how the win vs #1 ND in 93, spiked applications. It is a real thing. I think the school SHOULD invest in football. What people aren't realizing is the school has already begun that process with IPF, paying Dino 100% more than any other coach at Syracuse ever and giving him goodies for us to compete in the ACC. This is/has already happening. I think people want more and i get that but you need to weigh how much will ever be enough. it will never reach teh SEC level and if that is the goal, we're gonna fail.

SU needs to be SU and do what they do best. I have faith in Wildhack to make this a destination. But if you guys think we're paying 4.5-5mm per for a HC right now you're gonna be unpleasantly surprised.

 

[CuseOnly]

That school's identity is completely engulfed in football. even if Saban wasn't there Alabama will pay above market for a football coach. The best case scenario for them is they paid above market for the best in the biz and have leveraged that into a better academic situation there.

We have the academics at Syracuse, football is a part of the experience if you attend SU, not the sole experience like Alabama. Football can certainly spike applications. I saw the Flutie impact at BC and then, to a smaller degree, how the win vs #1 ND in 93, spiked applications. It is a real thing. I think the school SHOULD invest in football. What people aren't realizing is the school has already begun that process with IPF, paying Dino 100% more than any other coach at Syracuse ever and giving him goodies for us to compete in the ACC. This is/has already happening. I think people want more and i get that but you need to weigh how much will ever be enough. it will never reach teh SEC level and if that is the goal, we're gonna fail.

SU needs to be SU and do what they do best. I have faith in Wildhack to make this a destination. But if you guys think we're paying 4.5-5mm per for a HC right now you're gonna be unpleasantly surprised.

We don't have to be Alabama to enjoy a winning program that can have a proven extremely positive effect on the University.

We can be an SU program that is properly funded and winning and keep the academics, that is what those studies are showing that quantity AND quality of students goes up with winning programs.

But you can't do it without spending the money on athletics. Now that we have seen success in football, it is not chasing unicorns anymore, we actually have evidence that we can compete, so now is the time to spend to keep the ball rolling.

The issue I have with SU is even after they see the evidence, they ALWAYS drag their feet until it's too late.

I won't be surprised when they don't spend 4.5 mil on a head coach because that is how this university operates. Which only makes it more frustrating as a fan.

I guarantee that not doing everything in their power to retain a coach like Dino will cost them a lot more than they would have spent.

 

[Finwad32]

i already work at a job where i could make twice as much but i like where i am more than changing just for money.

Agreed, there's something to be said for liking where you work. I could put myself on the block every couple of years or move to a bigger city and double my pay... I don't because I'm taken care of and there's no reason other than $ to do it. If you can build what you want where you are, what else are you looking for?

 

[upperdeck]

also once you are making 2 million+ a yr how much more does your life change at 3-4 million? Its money you have to work to spend at that point unless you want a crazy house and cars and trips

 

[OrangeFoo]

Would you take less at a job just because they won't pay or would you go to do the same job elsewhere that would pay 40% more.

I know I would...

You need to risk adjust that number though... $3mm for 10 years guaranteed is the same as $4 mm for 10 years if there is a greater than 50% chance that you will never see the back half of that contract. This should be true of anyone looking for a new gig, not just Dino.

 

[TheCusian]

I think if Dino leaves it won’t be due to his salary alone. He’s too smart for that.

 

[nzm136]

Louisville just paid 8 million to buy out Chris Mack at Xavier. There’s no way they can keep throwing around a ton of cash of their new coach.

UL is a mess and broke. They aren’t a threat.

 

[elimunelson]

We don't have to be Alabama to enjoy a winning program that can have a proven extremely positive effect on the University.

We can be an SU program that is properly funded and winning and keep the academics, that is what those studies are showing that quantity AND quality of students goes up with winning programs.

But you can't do it without spending the money on athletics. Now that we have seen success in football, it is not chasing unicorns anymore, we actually have evidence that we can compete, so now is the time to spend to keep the ball rolling.

The issue I have with SU is even after they see the evidence, they ALWAYS drag their feet until it's too late.

I won't be surprised when they don't spend 4.5 mil on a head coach because that is how this university operates. Which only makes it more frustrating as a fan.

I guarantee that not doing everything in their power to retain a coach like Dino will cost them a lot more than they would have spent.

I agree with that. I'm not saying we have to be Alabama. We won't be so that's not the argument. I'm saying Alabama has taken their largesse and dumped it back into the academics.

I think the school has done an amazing job spending efficiently running the basketball program. Everyone loves to snide at Boeheim b/c he's "an outlier". Well he's an outlier because we found the right guy to coach the team. Just like Mark Few at Gonzaga, K at Duke, Ferentz at Iowa. It isn't just Boeheim. You need to find a partner to see the program grow. If a partner tries to hold the program hostage with money requests that are beyond the pale of peer universities/conference members things will fall apart. I 'think' Babers sees the benefit of having a progressive AD to build it with.

If he doesn't and chases the last buck, it's not gonna matter the number b/c he'll be gone.

 

[ForeverOrange]

Whose to say we can "lock Dino up"? Watching how he has moved in the past, it is pretty clear he has a plan and a vision, not only for how his teams play football, but for where he sees himself being. It's clear that this is a special season, and the administration can see that, no one is blind. But if Dino ultimately sees himself somewhere else, there is no amount of money we are going to throw at him that will change that. What happens after this bowl game may say a lot, because we are entering that period where he typically makes his next move.

 

[griddy]

1. I’m surprised that so many fans don’t consider Syracuse an elite program. I went to Indiana, which last won a basketball title in 1987, but where the fans still think of the program as elite. Syracuse has national titles and has produced as many great players (including the single greatest player) as almost any school in the country, plus rabid fans, excellent stadium and media coverage that probably is the best for its sized market of anywhere,
2. If several things fall into place, including expected player development and the contributions of new players, with possibly a couple of late transfers, next season’s team realistically could be Top 10 nationally. This program is on the verge of greatness.
3. Having an AD who previously led ESPN is a huge asset in this age. That must be terrifically attractive to any coach.
3. All that said, top schools will be coming after HCDB. This is the third program in a row he’s excelled at. Not a whiff of NCAA violations. Great ambassador for university and terrific mentor to young men. Plus, one of the most brilliant tacticians in the game. He has it all.
The biggest wild card, IMO, is that HCDB will be 58. He may be at the peak of his appeal because some programs are reluctant to bring in a coach over 60. HCDB must decide whether this is where he wants to be for next 10 to 15 years, where he wants to plant his flag as a football coach. His decision will likely to be the most consequential for the Syracuse program in the last quarter century.

 

[nzm136]

And look where past decisions got us...laughing stock, doormat, of all P5 programs. It’s an embarrassment to this once proud program where we were allowed to have fallen all because of past decisions like this. Hopefully we now have the right AD in place, who can get competitive salaries approved by the BOT. If we continue past practices we will end up right where we were before we got Dino Babers. I can only hope they realize this.

I have no idea why we wouldn’t pay. A good coach is worth many millions in terms of direct revenue (ticket sales, merch sales, etc), millions in indirect revenue (donations, etc.), and millions an ancillary benefits (exposure, school spirit, etc.)

Dino is a great coach. Past hires indicate that his replacement may not be (it’s hard to hire great coaches). We should absolutely NOT be cheep and pay the man.

 

[nzm136]

1. I’m surprised that so many fans don’t consider Syracuse an elite program. I went to Indiana, which last won a basketball title in 1987, but where the fans still think of the program as elite. Syracuse has national titles and has produced as many great players (including the single greatest player) as almost any school in the country, plus rabid fans, excellent stadium and media coverage that probably is the best for its sized market of anywhere,
2. If several things fall into place, including expected player development and the contributions of new players, with possibly a couple of late transfers, next season’s team realistically could be Top 10 nationally. This program is on the verge of greatness.
3. Having an AD who previously led ESPN is a huge asset in this age. That must be terrifically attractive to any coach.
3. All that said, top schools will be coming after HCDB. This is the third program in a row he’s excelled at. Not a whiff of NCAA violations. Great ambassador for university and terrific mentor to young men. Plus, one of the most brilliant tacticians in the game. He has it all.
The biggest wild card, IMO, is that HCDB will be 58. He may be at the peak of his appeal because some programs are reluctant to bring in a coach over 60. HCDB must decide whether this is where he wants to be for next 10 to 15 years, where he wants to plant his flag as a football coach. His decision will likely to be the most consequential for the Syracuse program in the last quarter century.

My theory is that no sane 57-58 year old millionaire would want to deal with the death threats from fans of elite programs when they go 4-8 their first year or two (see FSU).