Top 10 PGs all-time per ESPN

[Eric15]

Barkley's way on a dunk (hint; 6-8 275 pound guys who are going full speed are not fun to get in front of) but what's the point?

Is Barkley standing on a phone book in this scenario?

 

[RandygoCuse]

They are counting down top ten power forwards now, and I know Duncan is going to be number one, but come on, he should be a center. I never get why he's been deemed a power forward his entire career.

Probably because he started off playing alongside David Robinson...Thought Petit should have been ahead of McHale.

 

[Eric15]

Probably because he started off playing alongside David Robinson...Thought Petit should have been ahead of McHale.

In recent years didn't Tiago Splitter start at C with Duncan at PF, as well?

 

[Macky44]

LOL, you need to watch more than Sportscenter.

Ewing and Jordan traveled just as much if not more in the 90's.

The Spurs might have the best defense in NBA history this year.

The spurs are a rarity, for many reasons.

 

[Cusefan0307]

In recent years didn't Tiago Splitter start at C with Duncan at PF, as well?

If you go to his NBA Reference page, he's listed as a center about half the time and power forward the other half the time.
I know he played with Robinson and Splitter, but to me the type of game he plays looks, smells, and plays like a center.

 

[Macky44]

LOL, you need to watch more than Sportscenter.

Ewing and Jordan traveled just as much if not more in the 90's.

The Spurs might have the best defense in NBA history this year.

Also, i hate sportcenter. It has been unwatchable for about 10 years.

 

[br801]

Is Barkley standing on a phone book in this scenario?

Several.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I just think that shortchanges him. He made 4 first team all NBA. He was the leading scorer for the Celtics on like 3 or 4 of their title teams.

Was Pete Rose a bad player? I think it's a fair connection. Havlicek was very good at a lot of things, but not really elite at any of them. He was an important component of those Celtics championship teams, no question. I just don't see him in the Greatest of All-Time discussion. Not even close, honestly. And yes, I did see him play, and I do remember "Havlicek stole the ball!".

 

[RandygoCuse]

Surprised Pau Gasol made the list.

 

[Knicks411]

Is Barkley standing on a phone book in this scenario?

That was more in reference to Lebron. Chuck is probably more 6-4 320. Which might be scarier.

Was Pete Rose a bad player? I think it's a fair connection. Havlicek was very good at a lot of things, but not really elite at any of them. He was an important component of those Celtics championship teams, no question. I just don't see him in the Greatest of All-Time discussion. Not even close, honestly. And yes, I did see him play, and I do remember "Havlicek stole the ball!".

Greatest player of all time? Definitely not, I can't even remember where we started but it was more in reference to where he stood on the all time SF list. He's not in my top 5 or 10 players of all time; I could definitely see him somewhere around 15? 20?

 

[Knicks411]

Duncan is a C to me. People like calling him a PF probably because the PF all time list is shallower, so they can call him the best PF of all time

 

[NineOneSeven]

Duncan is a C to me. People like calling him a PF probably because the PF all time list is shallower, so they can call him the best PF of all time

He played with Robinson who was the C, and the PF never left him even after Robinson left.

 

[Knicks411]

He played with Robinson who was the C, and the PF never left him even after Robinson left.

The funny thing is, even though Robinson was older than Duncan, I bet he moved better than Duncan and could guard 4's better

 

[jncuse]

Yes. Leonard would crack my top 5.

1. Lebron
2. Davis
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. Leonard
6. Green
7. Westbrook
8. George
9. Harden
10. Cousins
11. Butler
12. Griffin
13. Lillard
14. Aldridge
15. Thompson

are my top 15.

Thanks for putting out the list -- without those lists we can't create debate and discussion. I agree with most of it, with 2 exceptions.

What is the case for Damian Lillard being on this list instead of Kyle Lowry?

Pts/ Reb/ Ast / TS% Stats are basically on par. Lowry has about one less turnover and one more steal per game (An extra 2 possessions -- that is fairly significant). And he is a better defender who plays on a .625 team that really is not that great on paper. They are probably not that far apart, but I guess I am wondering how far Lowry is from this list.

I also don't think that Demarcus Cousins is currently a top 25 player in the league. He has great stats, but the impact on team when you just plan outright give up and don't give a crap on several defensive plays a game is monumental. He is the centre on the 25th best defensive team in the league -- a team that is 16-23 and has some talent on it.

 

[OrangeDW]

In order to measure the whole of Dr. J's career, you have to include his ABA years, which are largely lost to video. Something has to be said for how Dr. J changed the game. Few people can have that said about them: Mikan, Cousy, Bailor, O, Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Dr. J, Magic, MJ, and now Curry. I'm probably missing a few.

I'd add Shaq to the list, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Knicks411]

Did Kareem really change the game? He's one of the two or three best players ever but not sure he changed the game. Also honestly, not sure about MJ. Best player ever, but there were dynamic 2 guards before him. (I'm probably going to regret saying this, but isn't MJ just a much better David Thompson?)

I also think you need to have Lebron on that list. Guys his size aren't supposed to do what he can do. Maybe Dirk also as a 7 footer who can shoot like he does

 

[Alsacs]

Did Kareem really change the game? He's one of the two or three best players ever but not sure he changed the game. Also honestly, not sure about MJ. Best player ever, but there were dynamic 2 guards before him. (I'm probably going to regret saying this, but isn't MJ just a much better David Thompson?)

I also think you need to have Lebron on that list. Guys his size aren't supposed to do what he can do. Maybe Dirk also as a 7 footer who can shoot like he does

You read the book so you know the difference was the drug of choice in the league being cocaine vs. marijuana.

If Thompson doesn't use nose candy he is probably looked at a lot different.

Jordan didn't change the game like a Shaq, Dirk, Lebron, Durant have. The only thing about Kareem was his shot was unblockable. Kareem wasn't a greater defender he just was athletic and had the sky-hook.

 

[br801]

Did Kareem really change the game? He's one of the two or three best players ever but not sure he changed the game.

Since his play, in large part, resulted in a ban on dunking in the college game, I'd say he changed the game significantly.

 

[Knicks411]

Since his play, in large part, resulted in a ban on dunking in the college game, I'd say he changed the game significantly.

I was thinking NBA. I'll buy that though

 

[NineOneSeven]

PF-

10. Rodman
9. Pau
8. Elvin Hayes
7. Pettit
6. McHale
5. Garnett
4. Barkley
3. Nowitzki
2. Malone
1. Duncan


I would swap Garnett and dirk. Garnett was insane in his prime on both ends of the court but had God awful teams.

 

[OrangeDW]

PF-

10. Rodman
9. Pau
8. Elvin Hayes
7. Pettit
6. McHale
5. Garnett
4. Barkley
3. Nowitzki
2. Malone
1. Duncan


I would swap Garnett and dirk. Garnett was insane in his prime on both ends of the court but had God awful teams.

I'd go Barkley 3, KG 4, Dirk 5.

 

[Knicks411]

PF-

10. Rodman
9. Pau
8. Elvin Hayes
7. Pettit
6. McHale
5. Garnett
4. Barkley
3. Nowitzki
2. Malone
1. Duncan


I would swap Garnett and dirk. Garnett was insane in his prime on both ends of the court but had God awful teams.

I said earlier how the PF are so much shallower than the centers, this really underscores it. Even counting Duncan as a PF, the C list is going to have Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Robinson, Moses, and Shaq. Those 7 guys account for 21 MVP's. the entire PF list accounts for 9, and that includes 2 from Timmy.

 

[RF2044]

PF-

10. Rodman
9. Pau
8. Elvin Hayes
7. Pettit
6. McHale
5. Garnett
4. Barkley
3. Nowitzki
2. Malone
1. Duncan


I would swap Garnett and dirk. Garnett was insane in his prime on both ends of the court but had God awful teams.

Barkley over Garnett? No way.

And I'm not anti-Barkley.

 

[OrangeDW]

Barkley over Garnett? No way.

And I'm not anti-Barkley.

I'd take peak Barkley over KG. In terms of carrying a team offensively, no question. But KG's length and defense allowed him to be a better "piece" later in his career than Barkley was.

And that's not to suggest that prime KG wasn't outstanding and a top player in the league. But Barkley was the more dynamic player IMO and for awhile was the 2nd best player in the world after Jordan.

 

[RF2044]

I'd take peak Barkley over KG. In terms of carrying a team offensively, no question. But KG's length and defense allowed him to be a better "piece" later in his career than Barkley was.

And that's not to suggest that prime KG wasn't outstanding and a top player in the league. But Barkley was the more dynamic player IMO and for awhile was the 2nd best player in the world after Jordan.

Barkley had a short period where he was truly elite. He was a terrific scorer / rebounder, horrible defender, rarely in shape, and injuries cut short his career.

Different strokes, but I'd take KG's overall career any day over Barkley's. I also believe that KG had a "better" career than Barkley. He was a great player for a LONG time, and won a championship [nearly two, if Boston hadn't gotten jobbed in a game 7 on the road by the refs]. If we're talking who had the better single season, then Barkley. If you're talking career, give me KG.

But I agree--Barkley had those two years post-dream team where he was wicked [circa 1993].