USC and UCLA to the Big Ten | Page 67 | Syracusefan.com

USC and UCLA to the Big Ten

I just don’t see the ACC agreeing to leave out any schools until the mid 2030s. Let’s say the ACC wanted 2 pods of 6. Then 1 pod of 6 from the Big 12 and PAC 12. Does the 3 teams left off have any recourse against the ACC. Then does Clemson or any team that wanted to go to the SEC or Big 10 have any recourse against the ACC.
 
This article is not good. Read the athletic article from Dennis dodds I believe. It follows which schools have following. Pretty telling that Syracuse football has been really bad for the past 20 years and we are still 24th in viewership since 2015 (of those that are not in the sec or Big 10). The teams this article places in the divisions is not even close to the top markets that are not currently in the 2 big conferences.
I’m not saying it is or isn’t. I’m more just interested as to why the PAC/ACC/Big12 wouldn’t want to explore some sort of merger involving all three conferences. Seems to be the only way to survive is to combine the best of the rest.
 
Iowa AD just said B1G won't expand more, just like I expect. They will only add schools that most members in B1G feel they have no chance to catch up. For B1G, it is USC and UCLA only. Teams like Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Maryland and other less powerful schools won't admit schools like Washington and Oregon. They think over time, with more payout in B1G, Iowa can catch up and exceed Oregon or Stanford which will receive much less pay if they stuck at PAC12. If small B1G schools let these PAC12 schools in and everybody gets the same pay, Iowa will never catch up with Oregon or Stanford. That is why I always think SEC can only admit Texas and Oklahoma and B1G only admits USC and UCLA. Even admitting Clemson won't get enough votes in SEC because small SEC schools think they can beat Clemson (or Florida St) in 20 years.

What Iowa said doesn't cover Notre Dame because Notre Dame belongs to the category that they will never beat. And Notre Dame can bring one friend with them to B1G. Lucky for us, Notre Dame is likely to choose Pitt or Syracuse.
 
Iowa AD just said B1G won't expand more, just like I expect. They will only add schools that most members in B1G feel they have no chance to catch up. For B1G, it is USC and UCLA only. Teams like Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Maryland and other less powerful schools won't admit schools like Washington and Oregon. They think over time, with more payout in B1G, Iowa can catch up and exceed Oregon or Stanford which will receive much less pay if they stuck at PAC12. If small B1G schools let these PAC12 schools in and everybody gets the same pay, Iowa will never catch up with Oregon or Stanford. That is why I always think SEC can only admit Texas and Oklahoma and B1G only admits USC and UCLA. Even admitting Clemson won't get enough votes in SEC because small SEC schools think they can beat Clemson (or Florida St) in 20 years.

What Iowa said doesn't cover Notre Dame because Notre Dame belongs to the category that they will never beat. And Notre Dame can bring one friend with them to B1G. Lucky for us, Notre Dame is likely to choose Pitt or Syracuse.
Why would ND want to bring SU over anyone else? Sounds like wishful thinking.
 
Why would ND want to bring SU over anyone else? Sounds like wishful thinking.
For some reason, I think Notre Dame loves us more than Pitt. The two are the one close to Notre Dame. Maybe Virginia Tech but Notre Dame has little connection to VA Tech.
 
I would rather see John project some confidence or reassurance that SU will be able to weather this turmoil. I’m not liking that air of resignation. That’s not what leaders are paid to do. Yes there may only be so much within the university’s control, and behind the scenes admit as much, but publicly tell the fans something more optimistic so we can perhaps sleep a little better at night.
 
his comments are exactly what most of us have been thinking. i have feeling we will be in the also ran category. i see very little reason for either the big 10 or the sec to want us, for reasons that i have previously stated. well, i have no issue being in a secondary conference. this has all become tiresome and has toxically polluted college sports for me along with unregulated nil. bring on colgate, cornell, bc,bu, buffalo etc etc etc. i would like that
 
This is unfortunate, and will kill my interest in college football if it happens.

Recruiting will be even harder while this all hangs in limbo too. Expect shady and others to use this pretty effectively in head to head battles.
 
Unless they were in a conference that was tied to other former power 5 schools, I would stop attending on a regular basis, I upped my season tickets to 10 this coming season and upped my donation a tad, but it wouldn’t be worth it to sit in a quarter filled stadium to watch Maine or Colgate.
 
For some reason, I think Notre Dame loves us more than Pitt. The two are the one close to Notre Dame. Maybe Virginia Tech but Notre Dame has little connection to VA Tech.
I think ND has more in common and more history with BC than Syracuse.

If ND decides to join the B1G and insists on bringing a date, I think it would be BC or Navy. We might be their third choice (Pitt might be too, but I suspect Penn State would not like that and we know the cat fights those two always have when they are in the same room).

USC would probably be their first pick but they already have the prom booked.
 
his comments are exactly what most of us have been thinking. i have feeling we will be in the also ran category. i see very little reason for either the big 10 or the sec to want us, for reasons that i have previously stated. well, i have no issue being in a secondary conference. this has all become tiresome and has toxically polluted college sports for me along with unregulated nil. bring on colgate, cornell, bc,bu, buffalo etc etc etc. i would like that
No issue being a secondary conference?
You've got to be kidding me.
 
I don’t care how it’s spun. With our big sports combining for their worst state of performance in decades, it would be very very very disappointing to have the athletic department/school just accept that the dominoes may fall as they will.
 
Listen I have lived in Syracuse three-quarters of my life and I have been a fan for a good part of that and I just know if Syracuse is left out it's over! It's kind of scary actually because I think we will pretty much end up like Yukon and maybe fold the program. That would be devastating but it is what it is I can't see any other way it would go. Athletic department with could not afford it they were be hemorrhaging money. There would be no attendance so lack of money coming in and hardly any money coming in from conference like we are used to now which if things go our way for the ACC or wherever could be even much more so this is pretty much do or die my opinion.
 
I would rather see John project some confidence or reassurance that SU will be able to weather this turmoil. I’m not liking that air of resignation. That’s not what leaders are paid to do. Yes there may only be so much within the university’s control, and behind the scenes admit as much, but publicly tell the fans something more optimistic so we can perhaps sleep a little better at night.
I read it as more of a message / warning shot to Kent, trustees, donors, etc...i.e. if you don't support this athletic dept, we could be left behind
 
I think ND has more in common and more history with BC than Syracuse.

If ND decides to join the B1G and insists on bringing a date, I think it would be BC or Navy. We might be their third choice (Pitt might be too, but I suspect Penn State would not like that and we know the cat fights those two always have when they are in the same room).

USC would probably be their first pick but they already have the prom booked.

Absolutely ND would take the catholic university attached to a major television market. To think ND will bend over backwards to take SU to the Big 10 (when they perceive to have the NYC market with Rutgers/Penn St) is crazy thinking. It would take titantic backdoor diplomacy from Kent/Wildhack to convince ND to do that.

I don't think ND is doing anything. A stalemate at this point is beneficial to them. The money won't matter because their television deal will be reupped higher and it will remove the egregious delta btw the deals right now with BIG and SEC.

Ultimately it comes down to Clemson/FSU IMO. If they somehow move the entire house of cards falls apart. ND won't be the first domino
 
I would rather see John project some confidence or reassurance that SU will be able to weather this turmoil. I’m not liking that air of resignation. That’s not what leaders are paid to do. Yes there may only be so much within the university’s control, and behind the scenes admit as much, but publicly tell the fans something more optimistic so we can perhaps sleep a little better at night.

Resignation? Saying it could go different ways isn’t resigning.
 
I think sometimes we overvalue the effect of money on CFB. Didn’t Cincinnati just make the 4 team playoff?

The gap has been pretty wide - obviously it’s getting wider - but if there’s enough CFB talent to get a G5 into the playoff and there’s only so many roster spots in SEC/B1G that it feels like our position isn’t that different than it has been.

Our chance of being a CFB playoff team is like where it has been since we joined the ACC, no?

The biggest problem is NIL and relaxed transfer rules make it harder to hold on to the talent we do nab… although having 3-5 draft picks stay with us going into this year makes me feel a bit better.
 
Resignation? Saying it could go different ways isn’t resigning.
Resignation in the sense that we can’t be proactive or pull any levers. Lally complex won’t be completed or be in a position to enhance the brand for several years. If football starts going to bowl games, again, that doesn’t award us a spot in this musical chairs. We need some big hitters politically or financially to shake things up. We have influence with ESPN, Weitsman? Biden?

Maybe as another poster speculated he’s trying to scare donors into action. Idk.
 

Let's start with Notre Dame. Fact 1: ND has a contract with the ACC that says it must join the ACC in football if it joins a league. Fact 2: Virtually no one expects ND to join the ACC. How can that be?

The expectation is ND will be patient here. Jack Swarbrick is in no rush to upend a core tenet of ND's tradition because a couple pieces moved on the chess board. Moreover, the biggest looming ? for the Irish remains unanswered: The playoff. (more on that in a bit)

ND's contract with the ACC looks essentially like everyone else in the league: An exit fee (3x annual revenue) and a GoR - but only for non-football sports. ND's ACC revenue for 2019-20 (pre-COVID) was $10.8M, while full ACC schools were $32.3M.

CFBHeather wrote more on how ND could exit the ACC. It's tough to get a firm number on what the total cost might be -- lots of details not known -- but my best estimate based on publicly available data would be between $55M-$112M to depart in 2024.

Even at the high end of that tally, ND would figure to make that money back with a B1G TV deal in a few years. But ND is already poised to make some serious TV $. Its deal with NBC expires in 2025 & there figures to be a lot of bidders. The Irish have options. Must be nice.

2 other factors impact ND's decisions though: A home for non-football sports & access to the playoff. ACC answers issue 1 if it stays afloat. We don't know what the playoff will look like in 4 years. 8 teams? 12? SEC & B1G form their own playoff? That matters more.

So ND isn't in a hurry to decide its future, but the Irish are the lynchpin for further expansion by the B1G. That means super conferences are in a bit of a holding pattern. The B12 and P12 have an incentive to move fast -- no one else does, bc they're all waiting on ND.

Now let's talk about the ACC's grant of rights. It runs through 2036 -- 14 years from now -- and it means the ACC owns the broadcast rights for all members until then. The rumor mill has largely ignored how big an obstacle this really is -- and it's enormous.

Another aside: adding new teams or opening up the TV contract would *NOT* void the existing GoR. They are separate documents. If new teams joined the ACC, they'd have to sign the same GoR as everyone else. Same for departing teams - unless > 50% leave.

What would it take for a team to leave? An exit fee (3x annual revenue) would be in the neighborhood of $120-150M. Then, assuming the ACC allowed a team to buy out its media rights, you'd be looking at another $300M or so, minimum, from 2024-36.

But here's the thing: The ACC has no incentive to settle for a buyout. Instead, it could simply say, "We own your broadcast rights. Your games will air on our network or not at all." And what value is there for any other league to add an ACC team that can't earn TV money?

The general feeling is, eventually someone will challenge the GoR in court, but that's problematic, too. For 1, the super conference writing was on the wall a year ago. Several teams have had lawyers looking over the GoR. None have challenged it yet. What does that tell you?

Or look at Texas and Oklahoma. They're riding out their own GoR because the B12 wasn't going to give them an easy out and they didn't think there was value in taking it to the courts and possibly losing. But P12, B1G & B12 deals end soon. ACC has 14 years left.

Another thing: There's little incentive for a school to challenge the GoR without some certainty they have a landing spot. But what league is going to make an offer to a school when it doesn't know if that school will have media rights for the next 14 years? It's a Catch 22.

But wait... what if 8+ teams leave & the GoR is dissolved? Problem: 8 teams don't have a home elsewhere. B1G & SEC are looking at $100M/year payouts. Remember, it's not about increasing the size of the pie -- it's about bigger slices. There aren't 8 schools that can do that.

Long story short, there's not an obvious path for anyone to depart the ACC in the near term without a massive & expensive legal battle. In the longer term, the equation changes. We'll have playoff certainty, knowledge on NCAA/oversight. Revenue gaps up, GoR length down.

So, to borrow a line from "Space Balls," when will "then" be "now"? The most logical answer is the NEXT round of TV deals - possibly in the early 2030s. That's a long way off, and that creates another Catch 22, bc it's gonna be hard for top teams to survive that long.

Another aside: This isn't all about money. Perception matters, too. What happens if recruits view the ACC as the JV of CFB amid the super conferences in the B1G & SEC? Even if you can spend and build, can you overcome a perception gap? It's a big issue. But back to the dollars...

MattBrownEP has addressed this: It's not (currently) how much $ you have, but rather how you spend it. https://extrapointsmb.com/college-football-realignment-budgets-data/… Clemson outspends Ohio St on football because it uses 41% of its budget for football, while OSU uses just 27%.

BUT... keep those same % & add $50M/year to OSU's TV deal & now the Buckeyes are spending roughly $13M/year MORE on football than Clemson but still just 27% of its total budget. And remember when OSU AD Gene Smith said it'd cost $13M in NIL to build his team?

As 1 coach told me after last year's shake-up, you can only build so many buildings. The real need for this $ is panic over the perceived inevitability of paying players & this gets us to another possible inflection point. What happens if super conferences go pro?

A lot of readers have asked about contraction. I've yet to talk to any admin who thinks that's going to happen in any league any time soon. But if, say, the ACC decided it would collectively bargain with players as employees -- would all 14 schools be on board with that?

It's impossible to say right now, but there's a scenario where a few smaller, education-centered schools opt to leave for a league that wants to maintain amateurism (like the Ivy League), while others join a league generating more revenue. Now you have 8+ ready to move on.

But this is all a ways off -- years, at least. That's not to say some more shakeups couldn't happen before then -- again P12/B12 have an incentive to move quickly & ND is a wild card -- but treat other rumors with a grain of salt -- particularly if reported by a swimming account.

Again, this is all hypothetical, and I don't encourage going too far down that road because there are simply too many unknown variables. But the larger point is that the ACC's near term is likely stable, and its long term will be dictated by a lot of outside forces. -30-
 
I would rather see John project some confidence or reassurance that SU will be able to weather this turmoil. I’m not liking that air of resignation. That’s not what leaders are paid to do. Yes there may only be so much within the university’s control, and behind the scenes admit as much, but publicly tell the fans something more optimistic so we can perhaps sleep a little better at night.

Here's a great quote from The Right Stuff:

Alan Shepard: He's going into his third orbit. How much longer are you going to keep him in the dark?

Head of Program: What are we going to tell him?

Alan Shepard: He's a pilot. You tell him the condition of his craft.
 
the issue will be if the big schools decide to take their ball and run with it and get out of the ncaa and do their own thing. what if they decide to make it 100 scholies a team. that removes a ton of kids from all the other schools playing ball now and those schools will be fcs pretty fast..
 

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