We’ve got to make shots…

[Jake]

Expecting this team to rebound is lunacy.

The bigger issue is Buddy and Cole missing shots and Joe giving away 2-3 possessions without being presssured.

Every offensive possession with this team hs to be productive.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Maybe the coaches want the players to work on ISO skills during this part of the season to set them up for the league play.

So you're of the opinion that our coaches want the players who aren't capable of ISO to practice ISO a bit more? And that, instead of an offense that plays to their strengths, is the best option for SU hoops at this point?

Edit - I'm a decent three point shooter off of screens and when wide open. Can't jump for shyte though. But I've decided I'm going to work on my dunking game over the next couple weeks to set myself up for the new year. That's the equivalent of what you are saying in my mind.

 

[Alsacs]

So you're of the opinion that our coaches want the players who aren't capable of ISO to practice ISO a bit more? And that, instead of an offense that plays to their strengths, is the best option for SU hoops at this point?

He is trolling for heat. It’s not a good faith statement at all.

JB experimenting with player rotations would make more sense.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He is trolling for heat. It’s not a good faith statement at all.

Then he will get a strong dislike with prejudice.

 

[CousCuse]

Then he will get a strong dislike with prejudice.

Your quick on the dislike trigger.

 

[CousCuse]

He is trolling for heat. It’s not a good faith statement at all.

JB experimenting with player rotations would make more sense.

I know that it is much more difficult to get proficient at ISO than it is to rely on the type of O your offering. They have, at this point, rely established a credible inside scoring threat.

 

[Alsacs]

I know that it is much more difficult to get proficient at ISO than it is to rely on the type of O your offering. They have, at this point, rely established a credible inside scoring threat.

We haven’t changed our offense for years.
The personnel has changed the offense hasn’t.
The fact you know this but make your comment supports what I said.

JB isn’t going to experiment in games when he coaches every game to win.

Our iso offense is his decision. If we had a guard who could penetrate it would collapse a defense.
Put Buddy on the 2014 team as the SG we could have cut down the nets.
That team needed a shooter.

 

[Newhouser]

I’m not sure what the goal is for our weight program. We have HS bodies.

Our guards (Triche, Cooney, etc) seem to get jacked but our bigs...not so much.

 

[Newhouser]

I disagree. He's getting boards and he's hitting foul shots. When the 3 isn't falling, he dribbles inside and tries to get a 2. He hustles and he tries, maybe a bit too hard. But he's talented.

If you had only seen Buddy this season, you would not understand how anybody could think this guy is an All American. He's been too easy to shut down. Granted, they are letting people foul him all the time.

But he just doesn't look right. He's missing way too many easy shots. I think he probably has some sort of muscle issue.

But you shouldn't give up on Buddy, and you shouldn't give up on Cole. He's going to going to win some games for us this year. There are going to be nights he puts up 25 later this season.

Both Buddy and Cole need to figure out a way to get to the FT line more. I don't remember Buddy taking one FT in the last few games and I bet Cole hasn't taken 25 all season. They have to do more than just hunt 3's, especially at the clip they are currently making them.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The search function is gold on this forum. GOLD.

 

[gmoney44]

Correlation does not imply causation. We were also dominated on the boards in the first half, yet had the lead. It was a four-point game with six minutes left in the second half.

Our second half offense was basically Junior and Edwards. Girard lost his mojo after he lost the ball off his foot. Buddy and Swider did even less than they did in the first half.

Nova pulled away late. It was obvious a comeback wasn’t happening when they were up by 7 or 8 and Buddy missed a wide open three. The game was a lot closer than the final score indicated. You can complain about rebounds all you want, but we still had a chance in spite of that disparity.

So 14 of Nova’s 18 offensive rebounds came in the 2nd half and you see no correlation to us getting destroyed in the 2nd half? Ok.

 

[Orangezoo]

Look man I like your posts but the game was not 5-6 missed plays. The game was about getting absolutely destroyed on the boards. How big was the rebounding differential vs FLST? They missed a ton and are bigger and more athletic than NOVA

Here is the thing and I think we are evaluating from different altitudes here. Can't compare FSU and Nova. FSU is bigger and has athletes but also slower. That was to our benefit significantly. Nova is like Houston out there. A bunch of 6-7 to 6-8 stronger forwards who are great athletes. That has been where we get boat raced on the boards the past few years.

If you walked into the Nova game thinking we are anything but minus 12 to 15 on the boards then you are way too pollyannish on this team. This team because of its flaws has to play through the reality of being beaten on the boards in many games. So with that said you look to efficiency, making shots and not turning it over.

I'm not saying that the rebounds didn't matter- they just weren't some kind of anomaly. It was absolutely what you would expect especially with so many missed shots by Nova which was a credit to improved defense - albeit also a gambit knowing this would make us even more vulnerable on the boards given how aggressive the rotations were in both the 1-3-1 and 2-3.

So with that I'm looking at the surface level here and it's really a small number of possessions that dictated the game within the game. If we want to offset that rebound margin we need Benny. He is the only forward who can be a difference maker with his athleticism. He isn't there yet so we are what we are on the boards and we were just a few shots, fts and turnovers from still winning that game.

 

[Orangezoo]

So 14 of Nova’s 18 offensive rebounds came in the 2nd half and you see no correlation to us getting destroyed in the 2nd half? Ok.

Where are you getting 18? ESPN Box showed Nova had 27 offensive boards. 13 in the first half.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Maybe the coaches want the players to work on ISO skills during this part of the season to set them up for the league play.

i think some of the strategy in ooc has been with conference play in mind. building the team for that. but at 5-4 now I think a lot of it has also just been trying to keep heads above water. JB actually thinks this isolation heavy offensive approach that hes used (forever ) gives the team the best chances of winning. wrongly, imo.

Against the good teams, Buddy has really laid a huge egg this early part of the season, imo. of all the regulars he has the lowest shooting percentage on the team and takes the most shots. 37% from the field and 25% from 3 is not gonna cut it (and those numbers are fluffed up by the colgate drexel and lafayette games where he shot above his seasons averages). generally a basketball team wants its highest pecentage shooters shooting the most shots not vice versa fwiw.

Since it is so clear that JB built this team with his boys in mind (and especially the non-existent bench)...I wonder if part of the iso ball is because he knows that is what players need to be able to do to make it in the NBA...maybe he is just trying to maximize buddys nba hopes. perhaps this season is just extended prep for buddys nba tryout.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Here is the thing and I think we are evaluating from different altitudes here. Can't compare FSU and Nova. FSU is bigger and has athletes but also slower. That was to our benefit significantly. Nova is like Houston out there. A bunch of 6-7 to 6-8 stronger forwards who are great athletes. That has been where we get boat raced on the boards the past few years.

If you walked into the Nova game thinking we are anything but minus 12 to 15 on the boards then you are way too pollyannish on this team. This team because of its flaws has to play through the reality of being beaten on the boards in many games. So with that said you look to efficiency, making shots and not turning it over.

I'm not saying that the rebounds didn't matter- they just weren't some kind of anomaly. It was absolutely what you would expect especially with so many missed shots by Nova which was a credit to improved defense - albeit also a gambit knowing this would make us even more vulnerable on the boards given how aggressive the rotations were in both the 1-3-1 and 2-3.

So with that I'm looking at the surface level here and it's really a small number of possessions that dictated the game within the game. If we want to offset that rebound margin we need Benny. He is the only forward who can be a difference maker with his athleticism. He isn't there yet so we are what we are on the boards and we were just a few shots, fts and turnovers from still winning that game.

the fsu game had many lucky break rebounds. the ball was bouncing in SU's favor that game for sure if you watched closely.

nova TEAM REBOUNDS. i would say half of their rebounds were either tipped from a teammate or out of bounds to nova. they gang rebound. tenaciously but smartly.

when have you seen a SU player tip a rebound to a teammate? they dont, generally.

between jesse, cole, jimmy and buddy never seen so much butterfingers on one team...they often get a finger or hands on a ball they dont secure and often dont seem to realize where they are on the court in relation to teammates and opponents. i thought the height advantage would mean all good on rebunds and defense. never seena team fumble so many plays. soo so many "almost had it" plays with this group.

not sure what the recipe is...but blocking out might be a good start

 

[Forza Azzurri]

So 14 of Nova’s 18 offensive rebounds came in the 2nd half and you see no correlation to us getting destroyed in the 2nd half? Ok.

Nova had 27 offensive rebounds, not 18.

14 in the first half, leading to 9 points
13 in the second half, leading to 17 points.

In the last 6 minutes of the game, they collected 6 that led to 7 points.

In the first 34 minutes, they collected 21 offensive rebounds and converted them into 19 points.

Offensive rebounding certainly played a role in the loss.

It was, however, not the only factor, as our inability to score down the stretch (2 points in 6+ minutes) also played a pivotal role.

 

[CardiacCuse]

So you're of the opinion that our coaches want the players who aren't capable of ISO to practice ISO a bit more? And that, instead of an offense that plays to their strengths, is the best option for SU hoops at this point?

Edit - I'm a decent three point shooter off of screens and when wide open. Can't jump for shyte though. But I've decided I'm going to work on my dunking game over the next couple weeks to set myself up for the new year. That's the equivalent of what you are saying in my mind.

it could be that they want tape of different strategies out there to make it hard to gameplan for this team.

its clear that this team has become very formulaic. hence the success of the 1-1-3...its a new wrinkle teams didnt even think was possible...bc the team does the same strategy every game usually.

JB does prioritize conference play for sure...hopefully then the offense will not be all iso.

 

[orangecuse]

I really must be watching a different game when some folks here spew how our D is getting so much better, and the proof is in the pudding with 'Nova only having 24 at halftime, or the like. It's interesting how missing so many WIDE OPEN looks that 'Nova had in the 1st half equates to our D getting better.

Both Shulman & Bilas noted ALL the open looks they missed and how that you "just knew" 'Nova (with all their good shooters) would unlikely continue to miss like that. Although, they didn't shoot lights out in the 2nd half, they made enough to create that bit of separation needed (along with their board domination) to put the game's result out of doubt after the 10 minute mark.

 

[gmoney44]

Where are you getting 18? ESPN Box showed Nova had 27 offensive boards. 13 in the first half.

 

[Orangezoo]

View attachment 211734

If you follow the pbp- ESPN is the correct one. With Team rebounds Nova had 27 total offensive boards. Offensive rebounds equate to additional possessions whether player or team and those were the ones we didn't secure. Also Nova had 2 team offensive rebounds in the second half and 12 player offensive rebounds. In the first half they had 7 player OR and 6 team OR.

Breaking it out by team rebounds is misleading.

 

[gmoney44]

If you follow the pbp- ESPN is the correct one. With Team rebounds Nova had 27 total offensive boards. Offensive rebounds equate to additional possessions whether player or team and those were the ones we didn't secure. Also Nova had 2 team offensive rebounds in the second half and 12 player offensive rebounds. In the first half they had 7 player OR and 6 team OR.

Breaking it out by team rebounds is misleading.
View attachment 211735

CBS and ESPN break it out differently but it tells pretty much the same story.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Every year we hear the same two things. We need to make shots and rebound. We don’t rebound well because of the zone and we have to rely on shooting because we can’t get by anyone. Neither are ever addressed. Both are controllable by recruiting.

 

[Orangezoo]

CBS and ESPN break it out differently but it tells pretty much the same story.

Sort of- we were dominated on the glass in both halves not just the first. Second half they made shots is the difference.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Every year we hear the same two things. We need to make shots and rebound. We don’t rebound well because of the zone and we have to rely on shooting because we can’t get by anyone. Neither are ever addressed. Both are controllable by recruiting.

Sanctions, too. And Ennis leaving early.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Sort of- we were dominated on the glass in both halves not just the first. Second half they made shots is the difference.

Nuanced but very true.

They converted those offensive rebounds into points at a much higher clip in the second half.

1.3 pts per offensive rebound in the second half vs .64 pts per offensive rebound in the first half.

Solid observation.

 

[phil77]

Sanctions, too. And Ennis leaving early.

LOL I haven't heard the Ennis one in a minute.