"We just played three of the top teams in the country to a standstill. If you're getting beat by 20 by those teams, then you say, 'OK, we'll see.'" | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

"We just played three of the top teams in the country to a standstill. If you're getting beat by 20 by those teams, then you say, 'OK, we'll see.'"

I haven’t wanted to be Debbie Downer over the last couple weeks because I did see improvement, but our best road win this year is vs 13-15 Boston College. We’ve played close games at home, sure, (also lost vs Bryant and Colgate), but we’ve literally beat no one outside of the dome with a WINNING RECORD. We’re not that close. We’re not even that close to the bubble.
We’re fortunate that the ACC is down this season. Beating NC State was a nice win, but even lousy teams score upsets every once in a while. We’re not lousy, but as you say, we’re not anywhere close to a tourney team either.

The “we played some good teams close” thing rang hollow to me. It’s basketball, more games are close than not. Good teams win lots of close games, and mediocre teams lose them.
 
If you combined 8 guys from last year’s team and this year’s, I don’t even think they win 20. It’s nice to think about hypothetically but it’s less the players than the system.

Judah, Buddy, Cole, Maliq & Jesse with Joe, Benny & Hima? That’s a bad defense still running out a pick-up style offense.
 
Figured the team would be a no-show once I saw it was on ESPN. I can’t remember the last time Cuse played well.. not even won, just played well.. when on ESPN. Pathetic program. We’re the new Indiana.
North Carolina. Should have won that game. Less than one month ago.
 
People with jobs / titles that are prominent within society have a hard time with separation from their jobs. They allow it to define them.

I've seen it first hand. Wrapping up your identity in your job is a huge issue in the LE / First Reaponder/ Military community. Seperation from service causes a lot of depression and identity crisis issues. There's actually a lot of good studies and reads out there on it if you felt so inclined. It's hugely important for people to build a life outside their work and not let their job and title define them. I'd be willing to bet that's a huge issue with JB right now and stepping down. Not the whole pie, but the largest chunk. He has no sense of identity outside of HC Syracuse basketball.
100%

I experienced this personally. Earlier in my career I was a fairly prominent employee at a successful startup. Even was invited to be on the floor of the NYSE when we went public. A few years later, there were lots of leadership changes, and I just didn't have a place in the plans anymore.

I really, really struggled for several years after that. So much of how I defined myself was in the context of the work and accomplishments I had there. I see now it wasn't healthy. But it was real.

I sometimes wonder if JB worries that he'll simply die if he's not coaching.
 
100%

I experienced this personally. Earlier in my career I was a fairly prominent employee at a successful startup. Even was invited to be on the floor of the NYSE when we went public. A few years later, there were lots of leadership changes, and I just didn't have a place in the plans anymore.

I really, really struggled for several years after that. So much of how I defined myself was in the context of the work and accomplishments I had there. I see now it wasn't healthy. But it was real.

I sometimes wonder if JB worries that he'll simply die if he's not coaching.
I took a before retirement early exit from a LE career to transition into the business world. I knew there would be a loss of identity, and prepared for it. Still affected me. Watched it happen to a lot of dudes coming out of LE and Mil. Still watching it happen as im younger. It happens to a lot of people. Jim's gots 47 years of a sense of identity built up in his head, and doesn't look like he has much investment outside of bball. Deff think his claws are dug in, and I get it. But it he needs to let go and know he'll still be JB without his job.
 
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100%

I experienced this personally. Earlier in my career I was a fairly prominent employee at a successful startup. Even was invited to be on the floor of the NYSE when we went public. A few years later, there were lots of leadership changes, and I just didn't have a place in the plans anymore.

I really, really struggled for several years after that. So much of how I defined myself was in the context of the work and accomplishments I had there. I see now it wasn't healthy. But it was real.

I sometimes wonder if JB worries that he'll simply die if he's not coaching.
It’s interesting… I was in a similar position earlier in my career and I made the decision to leave, because I thought I was trading up. A little over two years later I hit rock bottom when I was fired by a 25 year old kid at a 10 person startup. Now I just don’t care… work is a paycheck and the second I make enough to retire I’m out. Hitting rock bottom made me realize that job titles and notoriety are easy come easy go.

In 100 years people will care about Coach boeheim as much as they do any of the rest of us. Maybe it takes hitting the bottom to learn that and for better or for worse coach has never really hit bottom until now.
 
In 2015-16 I was certain that the coaching situation will resolve much sooner and less messier than FSU/Bowden. Now it's 2023 and we have gone way past that.

from Bleacher Report:
Let's cut out all the wish-wash and euphemisms and get straight to the point.

Florida State fired Bobby Bowden Monday morning, sacked him, canned him, showed him the door. Pick your phrase. But please don't say Bobby Bowden retired.

Because Bobby Bowden did not retire, did not step down.. At the very least, he did not chose to chose to end it.

No, Florida State president T.K. Wetherell fired Bowden, made the decision for Bowden, and for Wetherell's sake, Bowden complied.

According to various reports, Wetherell and athletic director Randy Spetman met with Bowden this morning and gave him two choices: retire or come back as head coach in name only.

If he did the previous, they would say it was his choice. If he did the latter, offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher would take over almost all the day-to-day operations of the Seminoles team, including hiring assistants, running practice, and calling the plays.

Simply put, Bowden would merely be an ambassador with the title of head coach, a figurehead, a head coach emeritus in some sense.

But really, there was only one thing Bowden could do.

Bowden could have chosen to hang it up. But his comments from the past few days show anything but a desire to do that.

“I want to coach next year, but let me say I need to go home and do some soul searching,” Bowden said following the Seminoles 37-10 loss to Florida on Saturday, the team's sixth straight loss to their in-state rivals. It completed a 6-6 season that easy could have been worse, trailing into the final minute against FCS-side Jacksonville State and two-win Maryland.

Moreover, ESPN's Mark Schlabach reported Sunday that a source close to the legendary coach said that Bowden planned to come back in 2010, that he wanted to coach one more year.

Unless Wetherell had a really convincing heart-to-heart, I doubt he convinced Bowden that Bowden wanted to retire. How do you convince a man that he wants to give up what he's done for nearly three dozen years and still loves?

Quite simply, you can't. At the very least, I know I can't. Even Wetherell, who played for Bowden when Bowden was the wide receivers coach in Tallahassee in the mid-1960s, wouldn't know how to do that.

No, Wetherell convinced Bowden that he needed to retire, that the only choice was to retire, that Florida State and Bobby Bowden needed Bobby Bowden to retire. That T.K. Wetherell needed Bobby Bowden to retire.For his good and for the team's.

And Bowden was not happy about it.

When Wetherell gave him the two options, he knew which one Bowden would pick. He knew Bowden had too much pride to accept being a figurehead.

After 388 wins, 315 of those at Florida State, and two national titles, Bowden was not going to accept working for someone else. He had been the boss ever since Jim Carlen left West Virginia for Texas Tech in 1970, almost forty years ago.

By comparison, Fisher, Bowden's heir-designate, was four years old when Bowden coached his first game at West Virginia. And Wetherell expected Bowden to agree to work for Fisher?

Somehow, the ultimatum was leaked to the public, whether by design or not, who knows. But it was leaked. And more likely than not, it was a bluff.

If Bowden wanted to return, if he wanted to be the head coach in 2010, he would have been. He could have told Wetherell, “I'm taking my swan song and then you won't hear from me again. I'm not an ambassador, I'm the coach.” And Wetherell would have had to accept it.

Wetherell couldn't actually fire the man who coached him 45 years ago, no matter how much he knew he had to. God knows Spetman couldn't.

Tom Jurich couldn't fire Denny Crum at Louisville, but he could convince him that he had to leave. And he did. Wetherell did the same to Bowden.

Wetherell bluffed. He had to. He wasn't actually going to fire Bobby Bowden, at least not this year. Bowden was going to get one more year if Bowden persisted. And when Bowden left the meeting to think over his decision, Bowden in essence was calling Wetherell out on his bluff.

But after he had time to think of it, something Wetherell said made sense. Somewhere during their meeting, Wetherell must have instilled in Bowden's head that Bowden needed to retire.

Somewhere it sunk in that Florida State is no longer Florida State, that the mystique that lead to 14 consecutive top-five AP finishes, two national championships, and a 152-19-1 record from 1987 to 2000, was gone.

Since losing to Oklahoma for the BCS Championship in the 2001 Orange Bowl, Bowden's Seminoles are 73-42 in nine seasons. They've won only three ACC titles after winning every ACC title from the time the school joined the conference in 1992 through 2000.

Moreover, this year was quite possibly the worst in Bowden's 34 years in Tallahassee, and at least it was the most bitter.

First, Bowden was forced to forfeit 14 wins from the 2006 and 2007 seasons for using ineligible players as a result of a university-wide academic scandal. While the allegations were not tied to Bowden himself, it did effectively end, pending appeal, his race with Penn State's Joe Paterno for the NCAA Major College record for most career wins.

Second, the Noles performance on the field was sub-par. After losing on the final play to arch-rival Miami in Tallahassee on Labor Day, Florida State trailed FCS team Jacksonville State until two touchdowns in the final minute staved off a huge upset.

After a 2-4 start, Florida State did reel off four wins in their next five, all close games, to clinch bowl eligibility. The final three wins, against North Carolina State, Wake Forest, and Maryland, were all against teams that are not bowl eligible. Their only win over a bowl eligible ACC team came in mid-October in Chappel Hill by three points.

Third, the Seminoles had their worst defensive seasons under Bowden, surrendering 30.75 points per game while being outscored for the first time since 1981, the last time they did not get a bowl invite.

Finally, Florida State lost six games for only the fourth time in Bowden's 34-year tenure, but the third time in the past four years.

It was time for Bobby to hang up the whistle and go fishing, no matter how anyone looked at it. Wetherell made sure Bowden saw that too.

So he gave Bobby the ultimatum, the bluff if you will, and even if Bowden saw it as a bluff, and he's too smart of a man not to, he knew Wetherell was correct.

Wetherell wanted to fire Bowden, and one way or another he let Bowden know that. And Bowden chose the option that would cause the least public stir.

Even if he wanted to coach in 2010, and Wetherell wouldn't have been able to stop Bowden, if Bowden decided he wanted to coach, Bowden also did not want to embarrass the university, and by association Wetherell, like that. If Bowden was on the sidelines in 2010, it would be an embarrassment to Wetherell, a life-long friend of Bowden's. And Bobby wasn't going to embarrass Wetherell just to coach for one more year.

So Bowden agreed to accept his dismissal as head football coach with his head up, showing for just one more time the dignity and class that along with unprecedented sustained success on the field earned him the distinction of one of the greatest coaches of all time.

He could have come back, gone 0-12, retired, and his legacy would have been exactly the same. But if he did that, T.K. Wetherell's would have been ruined. Any sign of Bobby in 2010 would have destroyed the outgoing president's prestige.

And in his final act as head coach, Bobby Bowden prevented that from happening.

Use whatever word you want, but Florida State fired Bobby Bowden Monday morning. Bowden just accepted it gracefully for the sake of the legacy of everyone else around him.
 
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In 2015-16 I was certain that the coaching situation will resolve much sooner and less messier than FSU/Bowden. Now it's 2023 and we have gone way past that.

from Bleacher Report:
Wild that was 13 years ago...since then both Bowden and Wetherell have passed away, Jimbo Fisher and FSU won the national championship 4 years later, Fisher left the program in apparent shambles, and they are on their 3rd coach since Bowden...and ranked 11th by the end of this year.

time goes fast.
 
Pop why? with a few of our pieces coming back we are probably top 14 next year.
In the ACC? Or are you suggesting nationally? Even if we return most of the team members, we won’t be ranked next year. Too many flaws that won’t go away.
 
I would speculate that if this were football, most of us would be glad if assistants were changed because at least it would "feel" like someone cared about improving the program. It is kind of crazy that literally nothing has changed during this downturn.
Speaking for myself, I didn't acknowledge the downturn was even happening till maybe 3 years ago. The Tournament runs kept things on the down low for a minute, but by the time you looked up & realized it, we were perennial also-rans.
For me the turning point was a simple one- Marek Dolezaj inserted at the 5 position. I just couldn't reconcile that move- it made NO sense to me at all. And yet JB kept putting him in there, and we kept getting hammered, and losing, and suddenly "upsets" to Buffalo, bad St.John's teams, and Colgate became...no longer shocking. The final straw was last year and the Buddy/Joe/JB2 debacle of a season. I joined the dark side after that and realized that, simply put, it was time.
 
A lot of depression here.
Most of it justified.

The 47-year coach taking a beating is very sad.
But that, too, is justified.

His only defense is zone...even when 3's are raining down?
You know the old saying...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is a defnition of insanity.

Supposedly not being able to play man-to-man is absolutely unbelievable.
Although it is true that there are only 357 other D-1 teams that can do it.

Losing to Colgate two years on a row???
Three years ago that wouldn't even be a joke because it would have been inconceivable.

But here we are.
With a team doing the same things and expecting a different kind of season.
 
I took a before retirement early exit from a LE career to transition into the business world. I knew there would be a loss of identity, and prepared for it. Still affected me. Watched it happen to a lot of dudes coming out of LE and Mil. Still watching it happen as im younger. It happens to a lot of people. Jim's gots 47 years of a sense of identity built up in his head, and doesn't look like he has much investment outside of bball. Deff think his claws are dug in, and I get it. But it he needs to let go and know he'll still be JB without his job.
This is the part that kills me. There are a lot of people that have the ability to tell Jim that it's time but nobody seems to be doing it. JW should be the first one to tell him "no mas". But he won't. Jim just puppets JW around and tells him to dance. I'd be incredibly curious to here what Juli thinks about Jim still coaching at this point. And I'm talking truth serum Juli, not lip service Juli.
 

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