What's our backup plan if Battle and Brissett both leave?

[Doc5120]

KU (Kansas) hasn't been to a Final Four since 2012. With a roster full of NBA talent every year.

They haven't been to a final 4 in 5 years. That's simply unacceptable!!

You realize we fluked our way into our last FF, right? Yes, it was a nice run and I enjoyed it, but that season was very similar to what we've been through over the course of the last 4. I'll take KU's Big XII conference title 14 years running, constant trips to the tourney and 25-30+ win seasons regularly, with a final 4 every 5 years. I can't believe this is even a debate.

 

[two3zone]

They haven't been to a final 4 in 5 years. That's simply unacceptable!!

You realize we fluked our way into our last FF, right? Yes, it was a nice run and I enjoyed it, but that season was very similar to what we've been through over the course of the last 4. I'll take KU's Big XII conference title 14 years running, constant trips to the tourney and 25-30+ win seasons regularly, with a final 4 every 5 years. I can't believe this is even a debate.

Considering your debate opposition I can believe it's a debate.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Where to even start with this one...let's see...

Kevin Ollie has any many titles as JB. JB has been in charge of his roster for 40+ years now, so he should probably do something about it. Yes, of course I think JB is the better coach, but your argument is flawed.

Ollie basically lucked into his.

David Padgett inherited a "loaded" roster. Didn't realize Deng Adel is Anthony Davis level. Come on. A solid roster, yes. A loaded roster, not even close.

Louisville was expected to be Top 10 before Pitino was canned. They returned 6 of their top 8 scorers.

The ACC is actually very down this year. We have 7 conference wins, 2 of which are against a winless Pitt team, 1 against WF, 1 against BC, wich gives us 3 decent wins (UM, VT, & Louisville). Our in conference schedule was actually very fogiving this year, yet we dropped games to BC, WF, GT and an ND team that hardly had a pulset at the time without Colson & Farrell.

Down from being the best? Still elite. 4 of the Top 8 teams in RPI and 9 of the Top 50

I definitely did not expect a whole lot from this year's team, but have not exceeded expectations. I think it's fair to say, we've met them, at best. Next year should be significantly better assuming OB is back, and I don't really see where he's going just yet. Let's hope things get better real fast, or else we may be staring mediocrity or worse in the face for even longer.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

They haven't been to a final 4 in 5 years. That's simply unacceptable!!

You realize we fluked our way into our last FF, right? Yes, it was a nice run and I enjoyed it, but that season was very similar to what we've been through over the course of the last 4. I'll take KU's Big XII conference title 14 years running, constant trips to the tourney and 25-30+ win seasons regularly, with a final 4 every 5 years. I can't believe this is even a debate.

With that talent level? We agree.

How did we fluke our way in? That's funny.

Go be a Kansas fan then. They are one of the blue bloods. I'll take Syracuse and their FF's. Kansas has 1 title in the last 30 years. And they fluked their way into it.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

How many straight big 12 titles have they won ?

14. But who cares? It's a pretty easy path.

 

[Cusefan0307]

14. But who cares? It's a pretty easy path.

They beat us by 16 this year on a neutral court. I don't think we should be criticizing them.

 

[Shark58]

there is a whole lot of stupid in this thread

 

[Doc5120]

With that talent level? We agree.

How did we fluke our way in? That's funny.

Go be a Kansas fan then. They are one of the blue bloods. I'll take Syracuse and their FF's.

How did we fluke our way? Let's see...

First off - many prognosticators didn't think we'd even be in. There's break # 1.

Then we had to beat a 7, 15 & 11 to get to the elite 8. Our path really opened up. A 15 beating a 2 is a major fluke. The UVA win was a great comeback, and our lone difficult matchup to get there. That's a fluke.

And I'll continue to stick with SU, like I have for the past 25+ years now. But, I have a right to be a little upset with the way things have gone recently. I'm frustrated, as I'm sure many others are. I'm not jumping ship by any means, believe me.

 

[br801]

You're wrong. Look at the guys that left school early in the 80's and 90's. All of them were expected by analysts to be immediate impact players. Guys that weren't, didn't leave early.

You are right in a sense, but back then only a handful of elite college players were leaving early (and most were juniors). Still, many of those guys flamed out in the NBA.

Today, there are more than a hundred early entrants each year, with many obviously going undrafted. I would consider players who go that route now and are drafted to be "ready."

 

[Alsacs]

With that talent level? We agree.

How did we fluke our way in? That's funny.

Go be a Kansas fan then. They are one of the blue bloods. I'll take Syracuse and their FF's. Kansas has 1 title i the last 30 years. And they fluked their way into it.

Good job. This just helps.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

They beat us by 16 this year on a neutral court. I don't think we should be criticizing them.

Kansas is a better team and better program, clearly. Which is why I'm pointing out how hard is is for even the great Kansas, with tons of talent, to get to a FF. Cuse has been to 2 of them since Kansas last made it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Kansas is a better team and better program, clearly. Which is why I'm pointing out how hard is is for even the great Kansas, with tons of talent, to get to a FF. Cuse has been to 2 of them since Kansas last made it.

Fine. Villanova is supposed to be our peer and they are winning 10 more games a year than us over the past 5 seasons and have won a title. Why are they keeping guys for 3 and 4 years?

 

[realorange]

Oshae needs to learn how to dribble first

So does Tyus but that doesn't mean they'll both at least take a look.

 

[Doc5120]

So Ollie's run for an entire season was "luck," but our 2016 4 game FF run wasn't a fluke? And, Ollie actually has 2 titles. Were they both lucky?

Louisville was AP preseason #16 this year - that is not a "loaded roster." Loaded is top 5 - at least. For comparison sake, Minnesota was 15th preseason. Preseason rankings are fun to look at to get people talking, but they don't hold a whole lot of weight. After you get outside of the top 10, things tend to shake up. Other teams in this year's top 25 - USC (10), miami (13), ND (14), Minnesota (15), NW (19), UCLA (21), Baylor (24). Louisville was never loaded.

Can't argue with the ACC RPI #'s you provided. Yes, there are some very good teams at the top of the ACC. My point is we lost to G. Tech, BC, WF, NC St. What are their RPI's? We beat those 4 teams and we're not even having a discussion on how we get in the tourney. We're solidy in. Instead we dropped games to bad teams. Not mediocre teams, bad teams.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

How did we fluke our way? Let's see...

First off - many prognosticators didn't think we'd even be in. There's break # 1.

Who? Why would anyone care what "prognisticators" think? We made it in easily.

Then we had to beat a 7, 15 & 11 to get to the elite 8. Our path really opened up. A 15 beating a 2 is a major fluke. The UVA win was a great comeback, and our lone difficult matchup to get there. That's a fluke.

We beat the teams in front of us. Michigan State got smoked by a 15. Utah got smoked by a 3 seed. We beat the teams that beat them. We came back to beat a good UVA team. There was nothing flukey about any of it. We won the games. That's how the tournament goes every year. Upsets happen.

And I'll continue to stick with SU, like I have for the past 25+ years now. But, I have a right to be a little upset with the way things have gone recently. I'm frustrated, as I'm sure many others are. I'm not jumping ship by any means, believe me.

Everyone is frustrated. By that's life sometimes.

 

[Doc5120]

So in 1 post you say Kansas fluked their way to1 title in 30 years. I provide ample evidence how we truly did fluke our way and you say we beat who was in front of us. You can't have it both ways.

Let me provide more context, because you clearly need it. Kansas was a 1 seed in 2008, crushed 4 of their 6 opponents in the tourney, but because Chalmers hit a 3, it's a fluke? Oh, and KU was 37-3 that year and had to beat 2 other 1 seeds to win it. If that is your definition of fluke - I suggest you grab a dictionary.

 

[sufandu]

You are right in a sense, but back then only a handful of elite college players were leaving early (and most were juniors). Still, many of those guys flamed out in the NBA.

Today, there are more than a hundred early entrants each year, with many obviously going undrafted. I would consider players who go that route now and are drafted to be "ready."

Exactly my point. Our definitions of ready are different.

It used to mean exactly what I said it did. You said it never did. Of course some guys flamed out. That'll always happen. The difference is every guy that was an early entrant back in the day was expected to be an impact player, even if it didn't pan out. Now guys leave early that noone has heard of and don't have a chance.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

So Ollie's run for an entire season was "luck," but our 2016 4 game FF run wasn't a fluke? And, Ollie actually has 2 titles. Were they both lucky?

Ollie inherited a good team. He was fortunate. He's done nothing since, and has shown he's not a good coach.

Louisville was AP preseason #16 this year - that is not a "loaded roster." Loaded is top 5 - at least. For comparison sake, Minnesota was 15th preseason. Preseason rankings are fun to look at to get people talking, but they don't hold a whole lot of weight. After you get outside of the top 10, things tend to shake up. Other teams in this year's top 25 - USC (10), miami (13), ND (14), Minnesota (15), NW (19), UCLA (21), Baylor (24). Louisville was never loaded.

The point is Louisville was supposed to be really good, based on what they had coming back, which was a loaded roster. Some had them in their Top 5.

Can't argue with the ACC RPI #'s you provided. Yes, there are some very good teams at the top of the ACC. My point is we lost to G. Tech, BC, WF, NC St. What are their RPI's? We beat those 4 teams and we're not even having a discussion on how we get in the tourney. We're solidy in. Instead we dropped games to bad teams. Not mediocre teams, bad teams.

NC State #59 and will make the tournament. BC at #93 has a wins over Duke, Florida State and Miami. They aren't bad. Wake and GT are really the only bad teams, and even they were competitive.

 

[AZOrange]

What if Battle & Brissett both come back?

We’re closer to this than both gone fwiw.

 

[Doc5120]

NC State #59 and will make the tournament. BC at #93 has a wins over Duke, Florida State and Miami. They aren't bad. Wake and GT are really the only bad teams, and even they were competitive.

I'll give you NC State. I probably should not have lumped them in there. BC has a nice backcourt duo, but they are not a good team. WF and GT, we both agree are poor teams.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Kansas was a 1 seed in 2008, crushed 4 of their 6 opponents in the tourney, but because Chalmers hit a 3, it's a fluke? Oh, and KU was 37-3 that year and had to beat 2 other 1 seeds to win it. If that is your definition of fluke - I suggest you grab a dictionary.

Memphis missed four of five free throws that would have put the game and the title out of reach. Memphis was up 9 with 2 minutes left. Very flukey!

 

[AZOrange]

Yes, they picked the schools they thought were best for them. Or maybe they got paid (Billy Preston)?

Your buddy said we don't recruit offensive players. We agree that's not really true, right?

Yeah that group of kids might have more than one thing in common other than “Syracuse recruit”

 

[Alsacs]

We’re closer to this than both gone fwiw.

Battle is gone.
He isn’t coming back.
JB pumping his stock tells everyone he knows he is gone.
Nobody has a freaking clue what Brissett is doing. Nobody but #11.

 

[Alsacs]

Memphis missed four of five free throws that would have put the game and the title out of reach. Memphis was up 9 with 2 minutes left. Very flukey!

Kansas shot 12 for 30 from the FT in a NC game they lost to us by 3.
Does that make our NC a fluke?
Stop posting.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Magical leaps? Hell, I'd settle for guys just taking a step forward in any fashion at this point. Haven't seen a leap from a single player on the roster since Rak.

You don't think Frank Howard improved from last year? Paschal? Battle? Frank has made a tremendous improvement in every aspect of the game. PC was absolutely untenable as a player last year and has made marked improvements across the board. Battle is a more capable player this year than last.