WWE Thread

[jncuse]

And you agree she was a subordinate and they knew. That’s a problem in most businesses.

Since we have established you are not going to defend your comment regarding "People knew she was passed around" let's move on to sub-ordinate relationships then.

I agree with your premise that these type of relationships are problematic. That is why many companies have general policies advising against them, or requiring approval for them,

But let's also establish the following regarding sub-ordinate relationships:
- They are not criminal nor the basis for civil liability on a base level
- They are not against the SEC.
- Companies choose to, but are not required to have these policies.

Do you think the fact that corporate officers permitted under policy or ignored a subordinate relationship, or didn't have a policy around them should be brought down? Especially when the engagee has 80% voting control. What exactly do you think an officer should do? Is there even a mistake made when the relationship involves the owner who really can do what he wants.

Not an easy answer as to what one should do, but I think its harsh to bring them down for this reason -- not that this is your view.

 

[djcon57]

Since we have established you are not going to defend your comment regarding "People knew she was passed around" let's move on to sub-ordinate relationships then.

I agree with your premise that these type of relationships are problematic. That is why many companies have general policies advising against them, or requiring approval for them,

But let's also establish the following regarding sub-ordinate relationships:
- They are not criminal nor the basis for civil liability on a base level
- They are not against the SEC.
- Companies choose to, but are not required to have these policies.

Do you think the fact that corporate officers permitted or ignored a subordinate relationship, or didn't have a policy around them should bring them down? Not saying you think that or not, but just interested.

I don’t have to defend it. I believe what I believe. I should have not even posted…honestly not that invested, my mistake. I don’t watch the product anymore and haven’t since the 1st Saudi show. No guilty conscience on my end.

 

[jncuse]

I don’t have to defend it. I believe what I believe. I should have not even posted…honestly not that invested, my mistake. I don’t watch the product anymore and haven’t since the 1st Saudi show. No guilty conscience on my end.

So we move on to other topics hopefully with no hard feelings..

Your probably right that I got too heavily invested in it --I only decided to get "post-a-rific" on the matter after I read that damn 67 page document while watching a boring hockey game at an arena yesterday, and while it was sick as ****, and will make Vince fry, it's also weak in some regards.

I have seen a lot of inaccurate takes on social media so it bothered me -- your post shouldn't have triggered me as much as it did, we have some shared thoughts on the topic (I have lots of wrestling in my twitter timeline as I follow 3 or 4 wrestling accounts).

 

[jncuse]

WWE not too concerned about controversy apparently -- start with Hulk Hogan who I thought might have been a smart removal.

Rumble starts - Naomi is back, and Jordyn Grace (TNA Champ) is also there... not sure if that is a one off thing like a few years back.

 

[MikeSU02]

The hell jncuse — are you kidding me?

 

[jncuse]

The hell jncuse — are you kidding me?

Regarding what?

My view that the court document, and in particular Section 4 pg 48-52, has underwhelming evidence that other exec's knew there was a predatorial relationship that included physical and mental torment and abuse while she was employed? I'm not saying 100% it was not known, I'm just saying the document itself is not convincing in this regard -- as it is in other aspects specifically related to Vince (for which it clearly showed predatorial and abusive behaviour)

Or the fact that I wasted hours writing what I did? (A part which I can't really dispute)

Or both,

 

[jncuse]

They went with Cody.
I wasn't sure where they would go with this one, but its probably the easiest way to get to the matchups they want. Crowd still loves Cody, and he is delivering in all elements.

I'm not sure I'm 100% feeling Punk at the top of the company so soon -- he has lost a step and there are so many really well developed characters right now, so probably best to not have him win this right now.

Punk might be better if he put into a corner and goes heel.

 

[jncuse]

The 2 rumble matches were OK.

The woman's match dragged a bit for the first 2/3 -- the finishing 10 minutes were strong with interesting moments and eliminations

Men's match had more drama going in... and with the figures in the last 6, though the end might have a little more drama and heat, since it wasn't clear who would win. Eliminations were overall simplistic in the ending sequences.

I do wonder if they had determined who win Cody/Punk before tonight, or they made the call on the fly based on the way the crowd was reacting to the two of them.

 

[jncuse]

Listening to the presser now.

And while I aired my view on elements of the lawsuit of "who knew", the way HHH is handling this issue right now is really bad optically and disappointing.

This is in an issue that deserved to be addressed up front, even if was filled with corporate speak and only minimal thought and reflection. Using a wrestling term, HHH is totally no selling the questions, not even having one thoughtful response, even a legalese one, or a prepared statement showing any thought or reflection.

Yes these questions are hard, and no answer will satisfy those who think you are guilty. But you owe the viewers who care about the issue, at least some answer. This was not the time to deflect those question with "this was a great week", let's focus on that.

Cody did a better job addressing the Vince question when it was addressed to him. Had some reflection on it, and didn't try to outright ignore.

 

[Symphony Steve]

They went with Cody.
I wasn't sure where they would go with this one, but its probably the easiest way to get to the matchups they want. Crowd still loves Cody, and he is delivering in all elements.

I'm not sure I'm 100% feeling Punk at the top of the company so soon -- he has lost a step and there are so many really well developed characters right now, so probably best to not have him win this right now.

Punk might be better if he put into a corner and goes heel.

His popularity far outstrips his ability to go in the ring. Starting to think the popularity will fade...if it hasn't already started to fade.

 

[cusefan88]

I'm hoping Gunther can have a world title feud should Cody win it at Mania. Big fan of his.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Looks like CM Punk has suffered a serious injury. From Dave Meltzer:

"CM Punk suffered a significant injury during the Royal Rumble Saturday night.

His exact injury was unconfirmed by those in WWE past many confirming the injury and that as of right now the plan is to have him on the show from Tampa to address the nature of the injury. Within the WWE the speculation was a torn triceps but nobody close enough to the situation would confirm anything more than a significant injury to be addressed on the show.

There was a spot in the Rumble where the referee checked on Punk and he told the ref "My triceps."

The Ghost Of Vince McMahon?

 

[Knicks411]

Beginning to think Punk is injury prone!

 

[jncuse]

Looks like CM Punk has suffered a serious injury. From Dave Meltzer:

"CM Punk suffered a significant injury during the Royal Rumble Saturday night.

His exact injury was unconfirmed by those in WWE past many confirming the injury and that as of right now the plan is to have him on the show from Tampa to address the nature of the injury. Within the WWE the speculation was a torn triceps but nobody close enough to the situation would confirm anything more than a significant injury to be addressed on the show.

There was a spot in the Rumble where the referee checked on Punk and he told the ref "My triceps."

The Ghost Of Vince McMahon?

Makes you wonder if they changed things on the fly.

 

[Knicks411]

Makes you wonder if they changed things on the fly.

Possible, I am doubting it because Meltzer was saying in his show after the Rumble that Cody-Roman was the plan for Mania and they were going to do Rock and Roman at some other time. (Saudi show? Maybe Mania next year? He was vague but I got the idea he knows, but isnt saying yet)

 

[Symphony Steve]

Possible, I am doubting it because Meltzer was saying in his show after the Rumble that Cody-Roman was the plan for Mania and they were going to do Rock and Roman at some other time. (Saudi show? Maybe Mania next year? He was vague but I got the idea he knows, but isnt saying yet)

Plan for Punk was to match up w/Rollins at Mania. Plan for Lesnar was Guenther. Bron Breaker's a natural to take his place.

 

[jncuse]

Possible, I am doubting it because Meltzer was saying in his show after the Rumble that Cody-Roman was the plan for Mania and they were going to do Rock and Roman at some other time. (Saudi show? Maybe Mania next year? He was vague but I got the idea he knows, but isnt saying yet)

I always figured they would find a different way to get to Roman-Cody at WM40 than last time .. . via the Elimination Chamber to determine #1 contender .. Roman says something arrogant, agrees to some condition, and this allows Cody to sneak his way into the EC match to Romans surprise.

The Rumble was the easier logical way to get there .. I thought they might try to stretch out the drama.

 

[jncuse]

Plan for Punk was to match up w/Rollins at Mania. Plan for Lesnar was Guenther. Bron Breaker's a natural to take his place.

Unless they decide to put Guenther over for the main title now. The one thing the WWE is they intertwined many of their RAW characters who had developed logical characters heading into Rumble . Part of the reason the Rumble was a bit disappointing was because a better story throughout the entire match was expected given the higher number of over characters than prior years.

That being said, that build now pays off with Punk injured because there are many ways they could go. They developed flexibility which was not always the case in the Vince “let’s go to Brock again “ era.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Unless they decide to put Guenther over for the main title now. The one thing the WWE is they intertwined many of their RAW characters who had developed logical characters heading into Rumble . Part of the reason the Rumble was a bit disappointing was because a better story throughout the entire match was expected given the higher number of over characters than prior years.

That being said, that build now pays off with Punk injured because there are many ways they could go. They developed flexibility which was not always the case in the Vince “let’s go to Brock again “ era.

Good point. Getting rid of the 'let's go to Brock again' crutch is a good thing.

 

[Newhouser]

Regarding what?

My view that the court document, and in particular Section 4 pg 48-52, has underwhelming evidence that other exec's knew there was a predatorial relationship that included physical and mental torment and abuse while she was employed? I'm not saying 100% it was not known, I'm just saying the document itself is not convincing in this regard -- as it is in other aspects specifically related to Vince (for which it clearly showed predatorial and abusive behaviour)

Or the fact that I wasted hours writing what I did? (A part which I can't really dispute)

Or both,

I am not a fan and haven't watched since the Ivan Putski days but in reading the media - this new suit stems from the fact that McMahon didn't pay the full 3 million required in the NDA?

 

[Symphony Steve]

I am not a fan and haven't watched since the Ivan Putski days but in reading the media - this new suit stems from the fact that McMahon didn't pay the full 3 million required in the NDA?

Yes. Ironic isn't it?

 

[MSOrange]

I am not a fan and haven't watched since the Ivan Putski days but in reading the media - this new suit stems from the fact that McMahon didn't pay the full 3 million required in the NDA?

Yes paying the money or not being a disgusting old man to begin with- either one would have done the trick, I think.

 

[Newhouser]

Yes paying the money or not being a disgusting old man to begin with- either one would have done the trick, I think.

I think the latter ship sailed for Vince when he was a disgusting young man. Hope he rots.

 

[MSOrange]

I think the latter ship sailed for Vince when he was a disgusting young man. Hope he rots.

Yes that's true. I got to think after I posted that he's been disgusting his whole life.

 

[jncuse]

I am not a fan and haven't watched since the Ivan Putski days but in reading the media - this new suit stems from the fact that McMahon didn't pay the full 3 million required in the NDA?

Yes - its highly probable this lawsuit never sees the light of day if Vince just paid her $500,000 in 2023 like he was supposed to. His deranged sense of entitlement led to this. Although, from what I read in NYS, is that NDA's can now be broken if there was sexual crimes involved -- so its possible it would have still come out. But its likely all on Vince not paying.

High Level Summary:
- In 2019, Vince met this 26 year old woman at the apartment he rented in NYC. She was down on her luck (her parents had just died bankrupt), and somebody in the building asked Vince if he could help her out.
- Vince got her a job at WWE, but almost immediately tried to assert his control over her using the job as leverage. It then turned more and more perverse by Vince - after about a year he wanted to bring others in on (had co-ercive threesomes with his physical therapist, a fellow executive, and tried to "pimp" her out to one wrestler that he wanted to sign a contract with).
- Eventually at end of 2021 Vince's wife found out. He then rushed the woman into an NDA, that was limited in its details beyond some "misconduct" In 2022 the NDA is signed for 3 million, signed between himself and the victim (the NDA was not reported to the WWE company itself)

So that's the story behind the initial NDA

- Then in July? 2022, the Wall Street Journal breaks the NDA about the misconduct. And other reported NDA's are also leaked shortly therafter.
- Vince had to step down temporarily from the Company, forced his way back in 5 months later, but apparently was still angry about this breach to the "NDA".

So he stopped paying her. Now she responded with a lawsuit that is much more graphic (with strong text evidence) then what was in the NDA which was somewhat generic.

Since this is a civil lawsuit I am sure this will be settled within the next 3-6 months and before it goes to court.
- She will get much more than $3M out of this, from Vince and the WWE itself
- And she bravely got her story out there in the process making Vince and some others look really bad.