Yes, it is the end of the world...

[KaiserUEO]

Never.

I'll take a .500 season with a final four over an undefeated regular season with an elite eight.

For me the 2010 and 2012 seasons provided much more fun over the course of the entire season than last year even if we made it further. I had more fun overall those years.

I was really busy the week of the final four last year and did not think we had much of a shot so I never got too much into that week.

these 2 posts sum up the hoop board nicely.

the dichotomy of the hoop fans here is stunning.

for college basketball, the fun is the ride with either a spectacular or horrendous end which will ultimately define your season.

the fact that some here don't understand that, get all caught up with rankings from nov-feb...and then can walk away from the tourney feeling good is just ludicrous.

i stand 110% behind Forza on this, and anyone who doesn't should go back to that board where they came from.

 

[Alsacs]

these 2 posts sum up the hoop board nicely.

the dichotomy of the hoop fans here is stunning.

for college basketball, the fun is the ride with either a spectacular or horrendous end which will ultimately define your season.

the fact that some here don't understand that, get all caught up with rankings from nov-feb...and then can walk away from the tourney feeling good is just ludicrous.

i stand 110% behind Forza on this, and anyone who doesn't should go back to that board where they came from.

I agree all that matters is March but this program hasn't had a real offense since 2012. That is hurting us from winning the whole thing. The D can get us to the Final Four but it won't get us over the hump. If we make the 2nd weekend with this team we have now I will be happy but it doesn't mean I can't be objective and say this program has some bumps in the future.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

just out of curiosity, what improvement did you see in that Uconn game?

Roby made a point blank layup. That was nice.

 

[SUMBA]

these 2 posts sum up the hoop board nicely.

the dichotomy of the hoop fans here is stunning.

for college basketball, the fun is the ride with either a spectacular or horrendous end which will ultimately define your season.

the fact that some here don't understand that, get all caught up with rankings from nov-feb...and then can walk away from the tourney feeling good is just ludicrous.

i stand 110% behind Forza on this, and anyone who doesn't should go back to that board where they came from.

I think we all agree that going deeper into the tourney is better. The reason we care about results between November and February is that positive outcomes increase the likelihood of making a deep run in March (via a better seed).

With all due respect to Forza, I am doubtful that a .500 regular season would be sufficient to make the tourney, which is a prerequisite for a Final Four.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I think we all agree that going deeper into the tourney is better. The reason we care about results between November and February is that positive outcomes increase the likelihood of making a deep run in March (via a better seed).

With all due respect to Forza, I am doubtful that a .500 regular season would be sufficient to make the tourney, which is a prerequisite for a Final Four.

except some people here have basically stated that theyd rather have the regular season wins and not the tourney.

to me, 1 tourney win is like 9 regular season wins.

and JB doesn't finish .500, he finishes with 20 wins a pop...

 

[llandz]

just out of curiosity, what improvement did you see in that Uconn game?

As stated in the post the improvement in the starting lineup. Also most in the chat room agreed. The starting lineup worked much better together. As a matter of fact we played fairly well until the first sub came in. This same lineup did not perform as well in the 2nd half, but overall it was an improvement. Something to build on.

 

[SoBristol]

Why not some combination? A tourney run, better than expected (last season), with a stunning comeback that will live in SU legends. Win a pre-season tournament (also last season), or crush N. Carolina in the Garden and leave their fans with blank stares (a few years back, with Wes Johnson), or win in classic 6 OTs vs UConn in the Big East. Beat traditional rivals and new rivals before 30,000 in the Dome, particularly if we come in as underdogs. It isn't only the final records, it is the high points through the season.

 

[CusefanATL]

As stated in the post the improvement in the starting lineup. Also most in the chat room agreed. The starting lineup worked much better together. As a matter of fact we played fairly well until the first sub came in. This same lineup did not perform as well in the 2nd half, but overall it was an improvement. Something to build on.

Not trying to be rude, and also not saying the sky is falling, but the starting lineup shot 11/43 and gave up an 11 point lead to a team that is at best an average mid-major with their current lineup.

 

[Oráiste]

except some people here have basically stated that theyd rather have the regular season wins and not the tourney.

to me, 1 tourney win is like 9 regular season wins.

and JB doesn't finish .500, he finishes with 20 wins a pop...

whether you are a protected seed (2013) or a bubble team (2016), the tournament is a crap shoot and you are going to crap out more often than not. Given that your really just taking your chances in a one-loss-and-you're-out tourney come March, I'd rather have kind of teams we put on the floor from 2009 to 2013 - ranging from very good to dominant - than the mediocrity we've put out since then.

 

[orangefan13]

We will be ok. imo people need to support our leaders like JB and the staff as they support theirs.

 

[KaiserUEO]

college basketball fans count 2 things...

1. Titles
2. Final Fours

you guys can have your regular seasons, the now 5 F4s mean more to the program's perception than 4 decades of 20 Ws do.

hell, im told a bunch of them don't exist anyway...

 

[Alsacs]

college basketball fans count 2 things...

1. Titles
2. Final Fours

you guys can have your regular seasons, the now 5 F4s mean more to the program's perception than 4 decades of 20 Ws do.

hell, im told a bunch of them don't exist anyway...

Regular season games are meaningless for the most part outside of rivalry games if you are a lock for the tournament.
However this program now in 2014-15, 2015-16, and this year has been mediocre. The Final Four run saved the perception of the program as elite but we have struggled bigtime. Our offense has been garbage for years and our margin for error has been razor thin.
Syracuse basketball appears elite but if you look closely you see the problems. JB is done after next year, Hopkins is taking over. Our assistants are all treated like made men. Our recruiting will eventually hopefully uptick but compared to
The rest of the ACC it isn't elite.

Thank goodness for last year's Final Four because the program is going thru a tough time.

 

[Faegan]

Perusing the board here for past three days, one would think SU was Rutgers or some equally ill-fated and inept program. Looking at the record...shows something totally different.

In the past four seasons (including one in which we were not eligible), SU has two Final Four appearances.

Only two other schools (Kentucky and Wisconsin) have as many, and no one has more. Not Duke, not Nova, not UNC, not Kansas (which has zero), not anyone.

Sometimes perspective is a good idea. Or maybe we are just spoiled.

Completely agree! I remember when some used to whine on this board in the late 90s/early 2000's about the football team only getting into the Top 25 and people wanting P fired - and I was probably guilty of this. I've learned my lesson... the hard way! Last year's tournament run was awesome.

 

[Oráiste]

college basketball fans count 2 things...

1. Titles
2. Final Fours

you guys can have your regular seasons, the now 5 F4s mean more to the program's perception than 4 decades of 20 Ws do.

hell, im told a bunch of them don't exist anyway...

Everyone is entitled to their own standards, but by yours, Boeheim has been an abject failure with a 12% success rate. That's not how I see him.

 

[CusefanATL]

college basketball fans count 2 things...

1. Titles
2. Final Fours

you guys can have your regular seasons, the now 5 F4s mean more to the program's perception than 4 decades of 20 Ws do.

hell, im told a bunch of them don't exist anyway...

*6*

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I think we all agree that going deeper into the tourney is better. The reason we care about results between November and February is that positive outcomes increase the likelihood of making a deep run in March (via a better seed).

With all due respect to Forza, I am doubtful that a .500 regular season would be sufficient to make the tourney, which is a prerequisite for a Final Four.

I was exaggerating to make a point...

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Everyone is entitled to their own standards, but by yours, Boeheim has been an abject failure with a 12% success rate. That's not how I see him.

That is not what he said and not what he meant...

 

[SUMBA]

I was exaggerating to make a point...

I got that but some on here seem to think that is a realistic scenario.

 

[cuseattle]

I got that but some on here seem to think that is a realistic scenario.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

My thoughts:

1. The systems that are in place are really intended to be most effective in the tourney. Most teams we play their will not have seen a 2-3 zone all year and if they have, not one extended out like SU plays. On 3-4 days or less to prepare, this benefits Syracuse.

2. The zone is less effective in the ACC and against teams with familiarity. Wisconsin and UCONN are tough match ups out of conference because they no how to play against the zone. GTOWN will be the same.

3. The zone seems much less innovative then previous. That concerns me. Boeheim found something that worked, that he liked, and essentially forgot what got him his greatest success - coming up with an innovative defense.

4. For his wealth of knowledge, Boeheim has underachieved with this program. He has every resource to be successful. He's had three "once-in-a-generation players," and he's won one title (while leading the program into probation twice).

5. The athletic limitations of this team are costing it on defense. Coleman, White, Lydon and Gillon are all subpar fits for the zone. Lydon was a freakin pogo stick last year, and this year he looks doughy and sluggish.

6. The not having an offense thing kills us against teams that throw out athletes and play pressure half court d. We're really going to struggle against teams like Clemson, FSU and Virginia as well (the South Carolina types).

Having said all of that, this team, perhaps more than any other we've had, is built for March. White and Gillon need more time to acclimate. Howard and Battle need more time to develop. Let's just hope we win enough to get there.

 

[Eric15]

Between 1988-1991, we were a 3-2-2-2 seed, but never went to a Final Four
Between 2013-2016, we were a 4-3-none-10 seed, and went to two Final Fours

If you asked me which 4 year stretch we all celebrated more, it would obviously be the past 4 years.
If you asked me which 4 year stretch the overall quality and health and prestige of our program was higher, it was definitely the late 80s.

I feel like we're intermingling end of year tourney results with overall program health, and those are often two completely different things due to the pure randomness of the NCAA tournament.

 

[pfister1]

4. For his wealth of knowledge, Boeheim has underachieved with this program. He has every resource to be successful. He's had three "once-in-a-generation players," and he's won one title (while leading the program into probation twice).

Carmelo Anthony and who are the other two?

 

[CusefanATL]

My thoughts:

1. The systems that are in place are really intended to be most effective in the tourney. Most teams we play their will not have seen a 2-3 zone all year and if they have, not one extended out like SU plays. On 3-4 days or less to prepare, this benefits Syracuse.

2. The zone is less effective in the ACC and against teams with familiarity. Wisconsin and UCONN are tough match ups out of conference because they no how to play against the zone. GTOWN will be the same.

3. The zone seems much less innovative then previous. That concerns me. Boeheim found something that worked, that he liked, and essentially forgot what got him his greatest success - coming up with an innovative defense.

4. For his wealth of knowledge, Boeheim has underachieved with this program. He has every resource to be successful. He's had three "once-in-a-generation players," and he's won one title (while leading the program into probation twice).

5. The athletic limitations of this team are costing it on defense. Coleman, White, Lydon and Gillon are all subpar fits for the zone. Lydon was a freakin pogo stick last year, and this year he looks doughy and sluggish.

6. The not having an offense thing kills us against teams that throw out athletes and play pressure half court d. We're really going to struggle against teams like Clemson, FSU and Virginia as well (the South Carolina types).

Having said all of that, this team, perhaps more than any other we've had, is built for March. White and Gillon need more time to acclimate. Howard and Battle need more time to develop. Let's just hope we win enough to get there.

So the zone HURTS us vs all of our rivals AND vs our Conference?! And 1 thing you didnt mention, but seems to be a universal thought is that it allows inferior teams a chance to slow game down and shoot over us if they can get hot... but at least it helps us in the 2nd round, elite 8 and Natl title if we make it that far.

 

[CusefanATL]

Between 1988-1991, we were a 3-2-2-2 seed, but never went to a Final Four
Between 2013-2016, we were a 4-3-none-10 seed, and went to two Final Fours

If you asked me which 4 year stretch we all celebrated more, it would obviously be the past 4 years.
If you asked me which 4 year stretch the overall quality and health and prestige of our program was higher, it was definitely the late 80s.

I feel like we're intermingling end of year tourney results with overall program health, and those are often two completely different things due to the pure randomness of the NCAA tournament.

I would actually venture to say 88-91 is celebrated more than 13-16.

 

[Oráiste]

That is not what he said and not what he meant...

Reductio ad absurdum