You Suck (for some)

[suttree]

Personally, I am a big Hop supporter, but there is no question I want to see the program evolve under him and not have him just be a straightline continuation of what Jimmy does.

Specifically, criticism over the missed timeout at this stage of Hop's career as a coach is nitpicking. No question, he will learn game management with time in the saddle.

The areas where Hop needs to evolve as compared to the way Jimmy coaches in my mind are at least twofold:

1. I am tired of ultra-short benches & kids playing the end of games with no legs and their tongues hanging out. I understand there is a big drop-off if G or Cooney comes out of the game, but it is not worth keeping them in for 40 if they can't get it done at the end. We are capable of recruiting good players, why when the season starts to we only seem to have five or six of them every season when other programs manage to get seven to ten. That is not on the talent, that is on the staff's utilization of the talent. This season, Frank seems to be showing he can be a cog even though he is not yet ready for prime time, so why can't G or Cooney get a blow ? I am far from convinced that Obokoh is a totally lost cause who shouldn't see the time of day on the court as many here seem to think. To me, he had a big game three games ago. We then had another cupcake on tap, it was inexcusable that the kid didn't get off the bench to see if he could build upon his prior game.

2. I am also tired of 100% reliance on the Zone. I understand Zone is a tradition at the Cuse, and perhaps with the right personnel it should continue to be our primary D. That being said, this season we do not have the right personnel to play the Zone exclusively. Furthermore, the college game is changing. Every halfway decent team now has multiple three point shooters that can stretch the Zone. Most of those teams also have one or two decent inside players who can punish us. Next year, we should have the right talent to play Zone with a big defensively oriented center coming in and three big forwards. If the Zone can't cut it next season it will be time to move on and keep up with the evolution of the game. I want Hop to have the flexability of mindset to make those changes should they be advantageous. I just can't live with us getting trampled off the glass game after game because the Zone is over-extended. Something has to give. Hopefully, most can be corrected with the right personnel, but we will not have the right personnel every season and we need adjust when necessary.

I love Hop's recruiting talents, and I understand this isn't really his team quite yet. I also believe he will coach in a style where kids will never quit on him. I am totally giving him the benefit of the doubt, but in the end he has to build upon Jimmy's foundation and not try to be a Jimmy clone when his time comes.

Excellent post. Appreciate your thoughts. I especially agree with your suggestion in the last paragraph about players wanting to go at it for Hop because of his leadership style. This has long been the book on Shaka Smart--and as a UT grad and Austin resident, I was thrilled when the Horns landed him. He's just been dealt an awful blow in losing Cam Ridley to a broken foot, but I think the future is looking great with him at the helm.

 

[Cuse House]

Personally, I am a big Hop supporter, but there is no question I want to see the program evolve under him and not have him just be a straightline continuation of what Jimmy does.

Specifically, criticism over the missed timeout at this stage of Hop's career as a coach is nitpicking. No question, he will learn game management with time in the saddle.

The areas where Hop needs to evolve as compared to the way Jimmy coaches in my mind are at least twofold:

1. I am tired of ultra-short benches & kids playing the end of games with no legs and their tongues hanging out. I understand there is a big drop-off if G or Cooney comes out of the game, but it is not worth keeping them in for 40 if they can't get it done at the end. We are capable of recruiting good players, why when the season starts to we only seem to have five or six of them every season when other programs manage to get seven to ten. That is not on the talent, that is on the staff's utilization of the talent. This season, Frank seems to be showing he can be a cog even though he is not yet ready for prime time, so why can't G or Cooney get a blow ? I am far from convinced that Obokoh is a totally lost cause who shouldn't see the time of day on the court as many here seem to think. To me, he had a big game three games ago. We then had another cupcake on tap, it was inexcusable that the kid didn't get off the bench to see if he could build upon his prior game.

2. I am also tired of 100% reliance on the Zone. I understand Zone is a tradition at the Cuse, and perhaps with the right personnel it should continue to be our primary D. That being said, this season we do not have the right personnel to play the Zone exclusively. Furthermore, the college game is changing. Every halfway decent team now has multiple three point shooters that can stretch the Zone. Most of those teams also have one or two decent inside players who can punish us. Next year, we should have the right talent to play Zone with a big defensively oriented center coming in and three big forwards. If the Zone can't cut it next season it will be time to move on and keep up with the evolution of the game. I want Hop to have the flexability of mindset to make those changes should they be advantageous. I just can't live with us getting trampled off the glass game after game because the Zone is over-extended. Something has to give. Hopefully, most can be corrected with the right personnel, but we will not have the right personnel every season and we need adjust when necessary.

I love Hop's recruiting talents, and I understand this isn't really his team quite yet. I also believe he will coach in a style where kids will never quit on him. I am totally giving him the benefit of the doubt, but in the end he has to build upon Jimmy's foundation and not try to be a Jimmy clone when his time comes.

Best post on Hop yet.

 

[81South]

Have to admit I saw a lot of good stuff vs Pitt.

It's a game of runs and they made the last one.

We will be in the discussion on selection Sunday...get a couple big wins in conference and we sneak in. Lucky for us we have lots of resume building games in our future.

 

[pearl31]

This team is not playing much better than they did last night. They just aren't...

Bunk. We've already seen them play much better than last night (against better teams than Pitt) in back to back games. They lost last night to a solid tournament team on the road. Wow, season over.
Of course the team is flawed, but so are any number of the teams vying for those #8-#12 seeds. It's ridiculous to say, at this point in the season and with the evidence we have, that it's an NIT team and that we all just need to face that "reality." This team has it in them to win some big games and plenty of opportunities.
A "sad" season? Really?

 

[OrangeDW]

This is to only those jacka$$es who are flooding the board right now with constant crap. I'm tired of reading this trash which is why I post.

I just don't get the melt down here. I really don't. Tonight I saw a team that I was proud of. A team that was in position to win a game that very few win on Pitt's home court. We showed grit, determination and many other essentials that I believe will help up moving forward.

The way I see it... we need 10 wins in conference play. This game will only help us moving forward, just watch.

Oh yeah.. for that comment someone made about Hop high-fiving a "guy" on the end of the bench - that moment stood out to me as well but for different reasons. I loved it.

The guy who made the comment was being flat out irrational. That was probably the dumbest comment of the night. I also liked that by Hopkins.

As for the rest of your post...I was very encouraged by what I saw for 35 minutes. The meltdown at the end with awful turnovers by 5th years seniors was pretty discouraging though...as is the way we get killed on the glass - it's hard to see that problem going away and that makes it hard to get excited about our prospects as we have a ton of tough games in conference this year. I would be overjoyed if we got to 10 ACC wins this year. I'm thinking this might be the year where we only win like 6-7 which is usually unthinkable for us.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

This is to only those jacka$$es who are flooding the board right now with constant crap. I'm tired of reading this trash which is why I post.

I just don't get the melt down here. I really don't. Tonight I saw a team that I was proud of. A team that was in position to win a game that very few win on Pitt's home court. We showed grit, determination and many other essentials that I believe will help up moving forward.

The way I see it... we need 10 wins in conference play. This game will only help us moving forward, just watch.

Oh yeah.. for that comment someone made about Hop high-fiving a "guy" on the end of the bench - that moment stood out to me as well but for different reasons. I loved it.

People who believe everyone should think and behave the same way... they kinda suck. People are disappointed. Deal with it. I'll bet those same people you're whining about will still be parked in the seats or in front of the TV for the next game and all thereafter.

 

[Marsh01]

Marsh is absolutely dead on, in case anyone is wondering. 100% agree with everything, other than maybe the Coleman stuff. I still think he could be ok...but don't see him staying out of foul trouble or getting enough of a leash for that to happen.

That was my thought on Coleman as well. Just too prone to dumb fouls

 

[chlywtr]

I will always love the program but there were WAY too many rebounds for PITT with 3 orangemen standing flat footed...that's an effort problem in my opinion.....i see some good things, but for those with perspective we shouldn't be surprised

 

[4evaOrange]

If someone has a problem with what someone post ignore them, seriously there is a feature on here that can enable you to block people you don't like.

 

[tbonezone]

just so we're clear. it's uncool to say that the players or coaches "suck" but perfectly ok to say that the posters here "suck".
fyi i usually ask myself before i hit send if my post is about SU hoops or someone else's opinion. cuz frankly i don't really give a rat's ass about your opinion. if it's about the team i'll give it due consideration if it's measured and well reasoned. but if you're just posting to bitch about posters...well as somebody on campus here once said "get a life".

 

[Nicknack]

just so we're clear. it's uncool to say that the players or coaches "suck" but perfectly ok to say that the posters here "suck".

For clarity purposes, I do believe that many posters on this board do in fact suck. Just one man's opinion is all.

 

[RoysRunts]

For clarity purposes, I do believe that many posters on this board do in fact suck. Just one man's opinion is all.

Can you be demoted to 3rd String on this Board?

 

[br801]

Can you be demoted to 3rd String on this Board?

The very worst posters are eventually Calhouned.

 

[Ghost]

Meanest holiday season forum post ever!

 

[orangefan13]

I haven't read the board in 3-5 days, but I felt we played well against Pitt just fell apart down the stretch. And whether Pitt is good or bad in the longrun won't change my opinion on that.

There is a constant trend with Syracuse.
One game we struggle with shooting another game we struggle with defense another game we struggle with rebounding. Its been that way for years.

It sometimes makes me wonder if we overwork on something in practice and neglect something for a few days. imo, you got to keep everything fresh in your short term memory all at once as college basketball is to tough these days. And it is a very mental game. You can't build college basketball like a pro farm league team. College Basketball is evolving into a different sport then college baseball, or college football where athletic advantages can blow teams out, even more so when you don't over pressure defensively. Its a game of finesse and the one that stays under control like a quarterback taking care of buisness and executes the right plays often wins.
The team that has 2 go to guys who can score one on one off the bounce usually gets a advantage over one. Basketball IQ is such a important element for JB coached teams. Especially given opponents waste alot of shot clock, are usually good on the offensive boards, and they get good looks at three late in games that man to man sometimes can take away better.

These are young kids they need to walk before they can run.
Most years we would be down at Pitt with 5 minutes left, this year the pressure was on them.
Hop is doing fine. I would have been excited to be in the position we were in with JB at the helm.
Let's Go Cuse!

 

[LennX6]

This was no meltdown. Its been way worse.

Pitt blows and we should have won that game. Our team is seriously flawed and cant defend on the interior and we will continue to get exposed all season. Rebounding is a joke.

When Diagne was ruled ineligible that crushed this team in more ways than one. DC is never going to be the answer and I dont see how we will get to double digits in conference play.

Bingo. There is a huge donut in the middle. Pitt had 2 guys that ate all day on it. Seriously I don't know how he don't get blown out by 20 in some of these matchups.

 

[Nicknack]

Can you be demoted to 3rd String on this Board?

Good idea. If we lose today, the admins will have their fair share of chances to try it out. If we win, oh my, what will the NIT posters say then?

 

[skurey]

Good idea. If we lose today, the admins will have their fair share of chances to try it out. If we win, oh my, what will the NIT posters say then?

I will bet up to 500 dollars we do not make the NCAA tournament this year in Men's basketball.

 

[Flacusian]

Wow... a pretty wide spectrum of feelings being thrown around here. I can see both sides of the issue. Losing sucks. We all get that. Losing to Pitt sucks. We all get that. Losing a game to Pitt that it looked like we actually had a chance to win sucks.

The Pitt loss was a clinic on what is wrong with the current composition of the team and also came at a time where a lot of fans are really settling in on their perception of the team and the program at this moment in time.

Clearly it's abundantly apparent to anyone with any basketball knowledge that Syracuse is fielding a team where players, out of necessity are playing out of their natural positions. That's due to a variety of reasons, early departures, recruits that didn't end up showing up, recruits that we didn't get that we had hoped/ expected we would get. Career altering injuries to a guy we expected would be a key component over the past 4 years.

Knowing that we step out on to the floor with a team that is less than ideally comprised, and especially so for the Zone defense that is emblematic of the Syracuse Program is a deflating realization to fans who have been accustomed to excellence and fielding highly competitive teams over the past decade.

When you take those things into consideration and also add pent up anger over a few other things... The NCAA penalties / reduced # of scholarships/ not having the services of Diagne (who clearly would have created more options with the team we put out on the floor this season). Then add the anger of having our head coach railroaded for "lack of institutional control" for a total of 9 games, the memory of 2 seasons which disintegrated at the very end because of the absence of our relied upon center (Melo and Arinze) and the thought that we might have very well vied for another Championship. Oh yes... I think we all remember all of the bad press we were subjected to on account of the Bernie Fine affair.

My point is there is a lot to be pissed about if you are one who is prone to nursing on a resentment when things don't go so well. So while I understand all of that... it doesn't do even one iota of good to piss and moan about this, that, and the other thing. Certainly it seems like Cuse has been subjected to a lot of bad Juju over the past 4 or 5 years. Yeah... it does suck but there is nobody on this board that is affected in even the most remote sense the way the kids who put those Orange jerseys on each time we take the court and give it their all trying to rep for Syracuse. None of those kids have any responsibility for some of the things which have added up to the current situation and they deserve our support and continued optimism regardless of how bleak things might seem at any given time.

There is a lot of change that will be sweeping across this program over the next 4/ 5 years and there will be plenty of opportunity for Hop to take a fresh look at the direction of the program and the strategies employed on both offense and defense. I believe it will all be for the better. I also think it's in all of our best interests to keep the tone of the forum civil and first and foremost remember that we are all here because of our common love of the program. It's no secret that these are tough times for our program but we don't have to contribute to that and in fact we can make it a lot better by keeping focus on positive aspects in spite of the hardship.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Good idea. If we lose today, the admins will have their fair share of chances to try it out. If we win, oh my, what will the NIT posters say then?

When we won 30 games in 10, 12, and 13' the same people I presume you are calling out were still negative then. It does not change.