1/3 thru observations | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

1/3 thru observations

IthacaBarrel said:
Petrino didn't need to do anything last year, that game was a joke. Our offense couldn't get out of their own way
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some of those games were early gerg era esque. get any lead, keep it close to the vest. the only way you could lose is with multiple pick 6s so don't do that.

with dungey on the other side, opponents might actually have to take a chance once in a while
 
IthacaBarrel said:
Petrino didn't need to do anything last year, that game was a joke. Our offense couldn't get out of their own way
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You're mis-remembering. Our offense was horrible. But they were really bad throwing the ball - pressure was blowing up everything. It was a close game because our D played them well (the story of last season, basically).
 
IthacaBarrel said:
What gives on "express backs"? I am all ears on this one... :):)
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It's where the west coast stuff meets the option - a guy who can run routes out of the slot and run the option out of the back field. I think we've seen less if what's possible with Erv sidelined.
 
IthacaBarrel said:
What gives on "express backs"? I am all ears on this one... :):)
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you end up having to run the ball with ben lewis (who i like) . you end up giving plays away to establish the uncertainty about what the h back is going to do. i think it limits our upside down the road with a guy like dungey. maybe if we get more WR, we'll see more plain old 3 or 4 wide sets

i think mcf***it was such a fool that he forever ruined SU fans opinion of ordinary concepts that work everywhere else.

i'm not making a big deal out of it, if you can find a qb and not puke all over yourself during the game, that's good enough for me
 
Millhouse said:
you end up having to run the ball with ben lewis (who i like) . you end up giving plays away to establish the uncertainty about what the h back is going to do. i think it limits our upside down the road with a guy like dungey. maybe if we get more WR, we'll see more plain old 3 or 4 wide sets i think mcf***it was such a fool that he forever ruined SU fans opinion of ordinary concepts that work everywhere else. i'm not making a big deal out of it, if you can find a qb and not puke all over yourself during the game, that's good enough for me
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Yeah - think we miss Erv. Needed Strickland to come on faster. But Lewis does a lot of other things well.

I don't think we've seen the XB offense just yet.
 
TheCusian said:
It's where the west coast stuff meets the option - a guy who can run routes out of the slot and run the option out of the back field. I think we've seen less if what's possible with Erv sidelined.
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What west coast stuff?

I've seen a handful of bootlegs, what else?
 
GoSU96 said:
What west coast stuff? I've seen a handful of bootlegs, what else?
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All the short passing concepts. The TE leaking out. The pass from Mahoney to Moore in OT vs CMU was pure WC timing pattern.

Ish caught a bunch of quick timing patterns vs LSU - I think that's what got Mahoney his confidence.
 
That's a fair take, Go. We're not quite out of the woods yet. There are some really encouraging things happening that are solid reasons to believe things are improving a lot (the big plays, Dungey) but I agree that the low number of plays and time of possession stats are concerning. Maybe that's just small sample size.

What really encouraged me in the LSU game is that in the 2nd half we actually attacked on offense. I'm bullish if that's our mindset going forward. Shafer's tendency to take his foot off the gas and play to favor the defense has been present this season though. I know there have been reasons for that in not wanting to bully an FCS team and breaking in backup QBs and whatnot, but those may be hard habits to break. We're still running with a thin margin for error. Lester's ability to get an offense ready that doesn't turn it over and commits few penalties increased that margin for error, but it's still pretty thin.
 
Are we still turning the corner? I thought we turned the corner when we beat WVa at their place to go 6-2? Or when we blew out WVa on that Friday night in the dome? Or Texas Bowl? Or Pinstripe Bowl? We can't still be turning the corner guys.
 
Go, this is a thought provoking post. But I think looking analytically only at numbers alone and trying to extrapolate whether we've improved from last year, sans context this year, doesn't work. Consider:
  • Dungey didn't have a huge game in the opener against Rhode Island
  • We've also lacked Erv Philips since game 1
  • We were rolling against CMU until Dungey got injured, and then didn't score another point until OT
  • As excited as we all were about Mahoney's performance against a tremendous LSU defense, his numbers weren't really all that good in the big scheme of things
All of these factors have dragged us down a bit on some key indicators.

But on the bright side, we're scoring a TON more points, and moving the ball much easier. Offense isn't an inept comedy of errors this season. Quite the opposite--the offense is better, more explosive, and has exponentially more big play potential. Also, we're seeing a lot of evidence that the system / coaching are significantly improved. I'm guessing that as the data normalizes over the longer course of the season, you'll see quite a bit of improvement in some of the variables you find disconcerting. I'm fairly well convinced that Dungey is good enough to scare opposing teams. We haven't had a QB like that in awhile [with all due respect to Nassib]. Fredricks emergence is another key factor.

When we struggle in games and still score 30, that tells you how far the offense has come.
 
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Millhouse said:
thankfully, i think it's just something that lester said. it's like zone with man principles.
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WC = timing patterns in today's game. Handy element to have in your offense, but the term has lost a lot of meaning as its been so overused.
 
Millhouse said:
you end up having to run the ball with ben lewis (who i like) . you end up giving plays away to establish the uncertainty about what the h back is going to do. i think it limits our upside down the road with a guy like dungey. maybe if we get more WR, we'll see more plain old 3 or 4 wide sets

i think mcf***it was such a fool that he forever ruined SU fans opinion of ordinary concepts that work everywhere else.

i'm not making a big deal out of it, if you can find a qb and not puke all over yourself during the game, that's good enough for me
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I like it.

I like the motion before the snap.

I like the misdirection that affords the QB more time to throw on sprint outs.

And I like the option component.
 
grain of salt but 1/3 of the way in, SU is 42nd in this SRS ranking (SRS is just a ranking using point differential and strength of schedule)

clemson, FSU, and NC state are ranked higher, rest of the teams on the schedule are lower
 
OrangePA said:
I like it.

I like the motion before the snap.

I like the misdirection that affords the QB more time to throw on sprint outs.

And I like the option component.
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i had bad flashbacks to VT games. short side option where one fast defender dealt with both mahoney and the RB. i can't remember for sure but i think mahoney got more yards on designed keepers

the modern read option uses more of the field, one great player has a tougher time blowing it up
 
Millhouse said:
you end up having to run the ball with ben lewis (who i like) . you end up giving plays away to establish the uncertainty about what the h back is going to do. i think it limits our upside down the road with a guy like dungey. maybe if we get more WR, we'll see more plain old 3 or 4 wide sets

i think mcf***it was such a fool that he forever ruined SU fans opinion of ordinary concepts that work everywhere else.

i'm not making a big deal out of it, if you can find a qb and not puke all over yourself during the game, that's good enough for me
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Yeah, an H back needs to be able to run side to side from time to time, obviously not great for Lewis but he has been so valuable everywhere else. I am going to reserve judgment until I see what Phillips does over there as well. I think setting up plays is OK, I think it's what Syracuse needs to do because scheming guys open is what seems to work and what has worked in the past here, I think Lester is doing exactly that. At least we aren't reading about guys that can't beat "press coverage" anymore! ( Your favorite topic)
 
Millhouse said:
i had bad flashbacks to VT games. short side option where one fast defender dealt with both mahoney and the RB. i can't remember for sure but i think mahoney got more yards on designed keepers

the modern read option uses more of the field, one great player has a tougher time blowing it up
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The short side option is used, of course, for a simple reason - there are fewer defenders on that side of the field.

So, I have never had a problem with it.

Fast defenders are always a problem no matter what offense you run.

Misdirection can slow a fast defender down a bit. And the express back motion allows for that I think.

I have really enjoyed watching this offense - the option adds a lot and as Shafer mentioned in a recent press conference, it can be a real headache for DCs
 
I don't have the stats in front of me to back it up, but haven't a majority of our TDS this year been scored by ExpressBacks (Erv, Strickland and Lewis)?
 
SUFaninNJ said:
I don't have the stats in front of me to back it up, but haven't a majority of our TDS this year been scored by ExpressBacks (Erv, Strickland and Lewis)?
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i have no problem at all with the players playing xback. i want them on the field. it's a minor thing, i swear
 
Millhouse said:
i had bad flashbacks to VT games. short side option where one fast defender dealt with both mahoney and the RB. i can't remember for sure but i think mahoney got more yards on designed keepers

the modern read option uses more of the field, one great player has a tougher time blowing it up
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I believe the 40 yard TD pass to Estime was set-up by short-side options. I could be wrong, however.
 
RMH44 said:
I believe the 40 yard TD pass to Estime was set-up by short-side options. I could be wrong, however.
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it's hard to know what sets up anything else. i'm still a utopian that wants an offense that can score every play. but whatever, you found dungey, he can x-ify whatever he wants, put x-pac in there
 
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