11 3's Given Up

[kingtidge]

Not a big Lavin fan, but he nailed it and it's not hard.

We give up an average of 11.3 treys per game and it's the worst in div 1 out of 358 teams.

We gave up 11 treys to gtown.

We have shooters that can paper over this abominable stat on occasion, but more often than not, you are gonna lose when you give up 11+ treys a game.

 

[JoeSU]

Both teams attempted 26 3s today. The Hoyas made 11, we made 8, That's a 9 point differential.
Add in their 18 FTs to our 7, and the Hoyas outscored us by 20 in 2 important categories. It's not hard to see why we lost.

 

[Madbiker]

We got killed on the boards in the 2nd half. Minus 10 in the 2nd half.

 

[domestu]

Having the worst 3-point defense in the country is a recipe for disaster.

 

[rrlbees]

Not a big Lavin fan, but he nailed it and it's not hard.

We give up an average of 11.3 treys per game and it's the worst in div 1 out of 358 teams.

We gave up 11 treys to gtown.

We have shooters that can paper over this abominable stat on occasion, but more often than not, you are gonna lose when you give up 11+ treys a game.

A useless stat that someone gave him to cherry pick. We aren’t 348th or in 3 pt defense. It’s not good just the same but we’re 210 in 3 pt% defense at 33%. If teams are gonna to take a ton of 3s they’re gonna make some. Them making 42% is what hurt us.

 

[jgeorge322]

The game has developed. Kids hit open set shots now. Our defense does not put pressure on kids. Kids can sit in the corner and just make it rain. Thats why we keep saying, why did so and so go off. That said, our offense just didn’t produce in the second half, and when that doesn’t happen, our defense simply is not good enough.

 

[kingtidge]

A useless stat that someone gave him to cherry pick. We aren’t 348th or in 3 pt defense. It’s not good just the same but we’re 210 in 3 pt% defense at 33%. If teams are gonna to take a ton of 3s they’re gonna make some. Them making 42% is what hurt us.

I assumed the stat was legit... More reason Lavin sucks I guess.

Now that you mention it, 33pts average is bad but doesn't sound like a dead last total. Still a poor stat line.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

A useless stat that someone gave him to cherry pick. We aren’t 348th or in 3 pt defense. It’s not good just the same but we’re 210 in 3 pt% defense at 33%. If teams are gonna to take a ton of 3s they’re gonna make some. Them making 42% is what hurt us.

Yeah, but... we're terrible rebounding so when we give a team multiple chances the shooting percentage doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[NineOneSeven]

A useless stat that someone gave him to cherry pick. We aren’t 348th or in 3 pt defense. It’s not good just the same but we’re 210 in 3 pt% defense at 33%. If teams are gonna to take a ton of 3s they’re gonna make some. Them making 42% is what hurt us.

Made worse by being a bad rebounding team. If a team misses twice in a possession but makes the third, they went 1-3 but still scored that possession.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yeah, but... we're terrible rebounding so when we give a team multiple chances the shooting percentage doesn't tell the whole story.

Made worst by being a bad rebounding team. If a team misses twice in a possession but makes the third, they went 1-3 but still scored that possession.

 

[MSOrange]

Yeah, but... we're terrible rebounding so when we give a team multiple chances the shooting percentage doesn't tell the whole story.

Just the point I was going to make. Thank you.

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah, but... we're terrible rebounding so when we give a team multiple chances the shooting percentage doesn't tell the whole story.

A percentage is a percentage regardless. A team can almost TAKE as many 3s as they want. It’s a matter of how deep. 3pt fg% is far more telling about a teams 3pt defense. Not how many a team takes.

 

[kingtidge]

A percentage is a percentage regardless. A team can almost TAKE as many 3s as they want. It’s a matter of how deep. 3pt fg% is far more telling about a teams 3pt defense. Not how many a team takes.

You can't whitewash the anemic rebounding. The count made is so high because of second chances off rebounds on misses and conversions on second attempts.

It's a 1-2 gut punch with the poor rebounding and why the number made by the opposition is so high.

 

[rrlbees]

You can't whitewash the anemic rebounding. The count made is so high because of second chances off rebounds on misses and conversions on second attempts.

It's a 1-2 gut punch with the poor rebounding and why the number made by the opposition is so high.

I like how some of you have turned the topic. My comment was that we did not have the worst 3 point defense in the country like lavin claimed. It is 210 at 33% success. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I like how some of you have turned the topic. My comment was that we did not have the worst 3 point defense in the country like lavin claimed. It is 210 at 33% success. Nothing more nothing less.

different ways to measure

% is misleading

if you give up only 5 threes a game but opponents make 80%

or you give up 35 3s and they shoot 45%

which one you taking?

raw number of 3s per game seems good to me...and in that stat its ugly

 

[kingtidge]

I like how some of you have turned the topic. My comment was that we did not have the worst 3 point defense in the country like lavin claimed. It is 210 at 33% success. Nothing more nothing less.

Do you like this?

• #358 in three point field goals allowed
• #358 in three point field goals attempts as a % of total attempts (52% entering today)
• #218 in three point % defence

 

[rrlbees]

Do you like this?

• #358 in three point field goals allowed
• #358 in three point field goals attempts as a % of total attempts (52% entering today)
• #218 in three point % defence

No and where did I say I did?

 

[rrlbees]

different ways to measure

% is misleading

if you give up only 5 threes a game but opponents make 80%

or you give up 35 3s and they shoot 45%

which one you taking?

raw number of 3s per game seems good to me...and in that stat its ugly

Im sure it seems good to you.

 

[kingtidge]

No and where did I say I did?

Are those stats not on topic here?

You said you liked how some had turned the topic.

Now let's parse exactly what Lavin in said and why you are technically right in how the words were parsed.

 

[Jake]

A useless stat that someone gave him to cherry pick. We aren’t 348th or in 3 pt defense. It’s not good just the same but we’re 210 in 3 pt% defense at 33%. If teams are gonna to take a ton of 3s they’re gonna make some. Them making 42% is what hurt us.

But they’re taking them at such a high rate because we can’t defend them. 42% 3pt pct is equal to shooting 63% inside the arc.

Sixty freaking three!!

You’d be crazy to play us and challenge Jessie vs our perimeter defenders.

We’re giving up 78ppg.

The defense is abominable.

 

[orangejunkie]

The problem is that Georgetown and other teams this year are not only making tons of 3s but they're mostly uncontested 3s, while SU seems to be making 3s but they're contested or from NBA range (slight exaggeration). The other issues in the Georgetown game were their guards ability to penetrate at will and their inside guys having their way as well. I was really impressed with the Georgetown freshman.

Having said all that, Edwards is developing into a real offensive presence in the post, which we haven't had in awhile. Clearly his teammates are looking for him more. He's showing good shot blocking ability but needs to get stronger on the boards.

Our perimeter defense is pretty weak as is our ability to rebound. Not sure how much better we'll get with the current roster construction. Playing a zone where the center has to cover the outside baseline exposes our rebounding throughout the game.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Im sure it seems good to you.

there is a reason the term "volume shooter" exists.

if syracuse takes 8 threes and makes 4. that is 50% shooting. very high number. very low volume.

but if the opponent takes 40 threes and makes 17. that is 42%. not quite as high but still good.

12 points and 50% or 51 points and 42%. which do you choose?

volume of shots matters a lot as well as overall percentage. bad offense cant get the threes off. and bad defense cant stop the open 3s from being shot.

the "3 point war" is not merely a war of percentage.

at the moment, for this team, its being lost on multiple fronts

 

[Red Holzman]

Watching Jesse race out to the corners to defend 3's in JB's scheme made me appreciate him even more.
How many top HS centers consider SU after seeing this and realizing it's what they are expected to do?

 

[AlaskaSU]

The game has developed. Kids hit open set shots now. Our defense does not put pressure on kids. Kids can sit in the corner and just make it rain. Thats why we keep saying, why did so and so go off. That said, our offense just didn’t produce in the second half, and when that doesn’t happen, our defense simply is not good enough.

If 3 pt shooting percentages have really increased it is time to abandon the zone. MtoM would expose our weaknesses but Jesse could cover up for some of our weaknesses.

 

[kingtidge]

If 3 pt shooting percentages have really increased it is time to abandon the zone. MtoM would expose our weaknesses but Jesse could cover up for some of our weaknesses.

In the future under a new regime.

We don't have the players to execute m2m nor a coach wanting to change his spots.

JB is like an abacus with the zone... He starts over every year and slowly tweaks things and as his players get more proficient with it, we may have a serviceable team towards the end of the year that can bubble-in to the tourney and do some damage against teams with no experience playing against it.

It's what we are now and is the high bar for expectations.

He's really gonna have to work some magic on the abacus this year to pull that off again, but I would never rule him out. He has a very good track record in that regard.