2015 Commits in the ACC

[CIL]

My guess is we'll only end up with 2 or 3 recruits who have offers from St John FIsher and Hobart.

My lord people, we go through this every single year. Let me repeat, we go through this every single year and have since the early 90's (when I started following recruiting).

 

[RICuse44]

My guess is we'll only end up with 2 or 3 recruits who have offers from St John FIsher and Hobart.

My lord people, we go through this every single year. Let me repeat, we go through this every single year and have since the early 90's (when I started following recruiting).

Now if Hamilton could get 2 or 3 kids with offers to St. John Fisher and/or Hobart we would be in business.

 

[anomander]

My guess is we'll only end up with 2 or 3 recruits who have offers from St John FIsher and Hobart.

My lord people, we go through this every single year. Let me repeat, we go through this every single year and have since the early 90's (when I started following recruiting).

Wouldn't you agree that things have changed significantly since the early 90's? Hell they have changed in the past 5 years.

 

[crales44]

Times have indeed changed. Nowadays a commitment to another school is not a huge roadblock to their signing with Syracuse (see Ward, Prater, Dowels, Edouard, Enoicy, Samuels, Harvey... you know, a full third of the last class) so why not take your time?

 

[CIL]

Wouldn't you agree that things have changed significantly since the early 90's? Hell they have changed in the past 5 years.

Changed how so? My point is that Syracuse University has never, ever been a school that has locked up kids early in the cycle. The cycle does begin a few months earlier now days, but what matters is that the basic premise has not been our bread and butter. Would I like to have half the class wrapped up by June? Absolutely unequivocally yes. Is that realistic for SU? No.

Why? Because we are not smack dab in the middle of a fertile football recruiting ground and we aren't a major land grant university. We don't have local D1 caliber kids coming through the school weekly like the Miami's, Texas's, even Rutgers. Speaking of Rutgers, how did their junior day and getting all those early commits work out for them last year?

More importantly, why did RU's class implode? I would argue that they didn't have the personal connection with the kids that they should have had. They sold the kids the B10, their facilities, and their new shiny helmets. They didn't sell themselves. GMcD is a fantastic recruiter because of his ability to connect with kids and to forge relationships.

This staff really is extremely focused on recruiting. They aren't shooting a bazooka out there to try in bring in everyone and anyone to campus. They'd rather bring in a handful of kids that have reciprocated interest on a select weekend and spend some time with them and their family. I for one, don't think that's a bad strategy given our inherent limitations and challenges.

 

[CIL]

Now if Hamilton could get 2 or 3 kids with offers to St. John Fisher and/or Hobart we would be in business.

I know, I didn't think it would be realistic that SU would offer kids with Hamilton offers. Even a junior day less SU wouldn't stoop that low.

 

[RMH44]

Changed how so? My point is that Syracuse University has never, ever been a school that has locked up kids early in the cycle. The cycle does begin a few months earlier now days, but what matters is that the basic premise has not been our bread and butter. Would I like to have half the class wrapped up by June? Absolutely unequivocally yes. Is that realistic for SU? No.

Why? Because we are not smack dab in the middle of a fertile football recruiting ground and we aren't a major land grant university. We don't have local D1 caliber kids coming through the school weekly like the Miami's, Texas's, even Rutgers. Speaking of Rutgers, how did their junior day and getting all those early commits work out for them last year?

More importantly, why did RU's class implode? I would argue that they didn't have the personal connection with the kids that they should have had. They sold the kids the B10, their facilities, and their new shiny helmets. They didn't sell themselves. GMcD is a fantastic recruiter because of his ability to connect with kids and to forge relationships.

This staff really is extremely focused on recruiting. They aren't shooting a bazooka out there to try in bring in everyone and anyone to campus. They'd rather bring in a handful of kids that have reciprocated interest on a select weekend and spend some time with them and their family. I for one, don't think that's a bad strategy given our inherent limitations and challenges.

Well said.

 

[supp]

Changed how so? My point is that Syracuse University has never, ever been a school that has locked up kids early in the cycle. The cycle does begin a few months earlier now days, but what matters is that the basic premise has not been our bread and butter. Would I like to have half the class wrapped up by June? Absolutely unequivocally yes. Is that realistic for SU? No.

Why? Because we are not smack dab in the middle of a fertile football recruiting ground and we aren't a major land grant university. We don't have local D1 caliber kids coming through the school weekly like the Miami's, Texas's, even Rutgers. Speaking of Rutgers, how did their junior day and getting all those early commits work out for them last year?

More importantly, why did RU's class implode? I would argue that they didn't have the personal connection with the kids that they should have had. They sold the kids the B10, their facilities, and their new shiny helmets. They didn't sell themselves. GMcD is a fantastic recruiter because of his ability to connect with kids and to forge relationships.

This staff really is extremely focused on recruiting. They aren't shooting a bazooka out there to try in bring in everyone and anyone to campus. They'd rather bring in a handful of kids that have reciprocated interest on a select weekend and spend some time with them and their family. I for one, don't think that's a bad strategy given our inherent limitations and challenges.

More excuse-making. BC is not a land grant uni either but they've held junior days too. We used to do it too and they were successful. They were even successful under GRob who'd created all sorts of obstacles for himself to getting talent up here with his coaching. BC was coming off a terrible stretch since Jags' firing and Addazio has completely turned their recruiting around. Their class this year may have ended up lower than ours on some rankings but it's pretty miraculous how close they were given their starting point compared to our's. So people bringing up that example aren't doing themselves any favors.

As for RU, is it junior days that are the problem or their well-documented high pressure sales technique once they get them on campus (combined with poor results on the field) that's their problem? The fact of the matter is that the junior days did their job. They were successful in getting highly touted kids to show up in New Brunswick.

Finally the weather excuse that someone brings up above: is BC, RU, PSU, Pitt, etc. some kind of tropical paradise compared to us this time of year (especially this year)?

 

[CIL]

More excuse-making. BC is not a land grant uni either but they've held junior days too. We used to do it too and they were successful. They were even successful under GRob who'd created all sorts of obstacles for himself to getting talent up here with his coaching. BC was coming off a terrible stretch since Jags' firing and Addazio has completely turned their recruiting around. Their class this year may have ended up lower than ours on some rankings but it's pretty miraculous how close they were given their starting point compared to our's. So people bringing up that example aren't doing themselves any favors.

As for RU, is it junior days that are the problem or their well-documented high pressure sales technique once they get them on campus (combined with poor results on the field) that's their problem? The fact of the matter is that the junior days did their job. They were successful in getting highly touted kids to show up in New Brunswick.

Finally the weather excuse that someone brings up above: is BC, RU, PSU, Pitt, etc. some kind of tropical paradise compared to us this time of year (especially this year)?

You have totally contradicted yourself in that statement. I wouldn't say Addazio worked any greater miracles than Shafer if you are going to go by rankings. BC's class ranked 56th in Scout vs our 53rd. Their average star ranking was also below ours.

In 2013, BC's ranked 90th vs 73rd for SU, but BC had a higher average star ranking. BC had a top 35 class in 2011!

As to the second statement, ask Kyle Flood if his job is to get highly touted kids to show up for junior day or to get highly touted kids to actually play in a Rutgers uniform?

 

[CuseLegacy]

From a post from DCCuse last year from the Spring Game on the kids that attended..

2013 Commits: Austin Wilson was up and brought one of his WRs, highly regarded Sam Marshall, 6'5, 185 lbs. Seems quiet and reserved, but definitely seemed like he enjoyed what he saw.

Nas Howard -- Local kid, so not surprising to see him there.

Mitch Kimble with Corey Winfield. Like Wilson with Marshall, I seemed to always see Kimble paired with Winfield. Kimble brought a lot of family with him on this visit.

Isaiah Johnson - Based solely on his twitter personality I expected a more outgoing personality. Seemed very quiet, but very polite when some fans engaged him. Big dude.

Wayne Williams with Kendall Moore. They were hanging out together and definitely a pair I would not want to get behind in the buffet line. Both of their listed sizes are not exaggerated.

Chauncey Scissum was once again here (he came to the open practice three weeks ago). I noticed him talking to Shamarko a bit and asking some questions.

Corey Cooper -- Completely missed him, but based on twitter sounds like Corey is pumped to get up here and bonded a little bit with Alec Lemon.

2013 Prospect:
Daniel Marc-Sears -- Tall, big WR from ASA college (listed as 6'6" 200lbs). Think Brandon Coleman from Rutgers. Not sure if he has an offer yet. He was accompanied by a New Rochelle assistant coach named Keith Fagan. Daniel didn't go to NRHS so not sure of the connection.

2014 Prospects:
AJ Long and KJ Williams -- Obviously these two were joined at the hip the entire time (a common thread here QBs hanging with preferred WRs), but have to love AJ. This kid is a one man recruiting machine. Not only was he showing KJ things around the dome, but he was also doing his best to meet other prospects and work on specifically Zaire Franklin, 6'1" 215 lb Linebacker prospect from Lasalle HS in Philly. Talked a little with Jarrod West's family who are very excited for next season and the opportunity that Jarrod has. They did say while it will be tough they like our chances on signing KJ. KJ is from Liberty HS where Jarrod played (in case some of you were unaware). Back to Zaire, saw him near the end on the field with Coach Lea his wife and little baby. At one point, Coach Lea had Zaire hold the baby for him (very cute moment). Looks like they have established a good relationship already.
Colton Moskol: Big LB from Ill. Listed at 6'2", 210 on Rivals. I'd peg him closer to 6-6'1", but definitely closer to 230 (big arms). Was having a ball and even had a bag from Manny's to bring home some souvenirs of the trip.
Eric Shute: Another Big kid (6'5", 265lbs) who is an OL from Glen Ellyn, IL. Likes what he sees, but not likely a decision any time soon. Seen talking with Coach Lester about where he is from in IL.
Tariq Cole - 6'6" 375 lb OL/DT from Lido Beach, NY (Long Beach HS). Arguably the biggest kid (SU football players included) on the turf post-game. No small task given that Wayne Williams was also there. Another gentle giant who seemed to be more "just taking it all in." He seemed to be there with his grandmother.
Ryan Malagrino -- LB prospect from Nottingham HS in Hamilton, NJ. Didn't see much of him, but saw this interesting article about him while doing research. Also with him was Josh Lajeunesse. Doesn't seem like a D1 kid to me, but always nice for PR to get more kids up to at least see and experience the SU football program and campus.
Tyler Cavenas -- DE out of Mahonoy City, PA. Don't have much on him.

Other under the radar types:
Hassan Rainey -- RB out of Schenectady

Malachi Newall -- From Farrell Steelers (Rob Trudo's alma mater)
Aaron Golub -- Newton HS in Mass

That looks to me like a Jr Day even if the staff didn't call it that. I am going to guess that they will do something similar again this year at the Spring Game. So imo it's not that there isn't going to be a Jr Day, it's that it will be held during the Spring Game and not during the BB season.

And my comment about early commits is that again it is simply a tool that can be used in recruiting. Use the early commits to assist in recruiting other prospects.

 

[baggerbob]

The final say is the players you get, this was actually this staffs 1st class, and they finished well. We have some young coaches with good contacts, and a head coach who connects with players, but most importantly parents. Scott also connects, like Mcdonald with High School coaches, we need to let this 2nd year play out.

 

[anomander]

You have totally contradicted yourself in that statement. I wouldn't say Addazio worked any greater miracles than Shafer if you are going to go by rankings. BC's class ranked 56th in Scout vs our 53rd. Their average star ranking was also below ours.

In 2013, BC's ranked 90th vs 73rd for SU, but BC had a higher average star ranking. BC had a top 35 class in 2011!

As to the second statement, ask Kyle Flood if his job is to get highly touted kids to show up for junior day or to get highly touted kids to actually play in a Rutgers uniform?

Come on your reaching with that. Even our own Recruiting Director said in a perfect world we would love to have a full class right now and then just trying to hold onto them until NSD. Just because Flood botched everything up with his no visit policy doesn't mean the Jr Day's weren't successful. I can't believe we are actually debating whether or not Jr Day's are worth it.

 

[supp]

You have totally contradicted yourself in that statement. I wouldn't say Addazio worked any greater miracles than Shafer if you are going to go by rankings. BC's class ranked 56th in Scout vs our 53rd. Their average star ranking was also below ours.

In 2013, BC's ranked 90th vs 73rd for SU, but BC had a higher average star ranking. BC had a top 35 class in 2011!

As to the second statement, ask Kyle Flood if his job is to get highly touted kids to show up for junior day or to get highly touted kids to actually play in a Rutgers uniform?

I meant terrible stretch on the field. Addazio had less to sell and still held his own. We'll see how things work out for him this year. They look to be off to a pretty good start in terms of getting local kids' attention. And that's what junior days are about.

As for Flood, like I said, they did what they were supposed to with the junior days. They got those kids to pay attention. I never even implied that I approved of how they conducted themselves after that. Imagine if we could get even more local recruits on campus early and have Shafer and his staff work their more stress-free approach on them?

In the end, junior days are another tool that all of our competitors have shown can be very useful to their recruiting efforts. There's no refuting that. It makes little sense not to take advantage of our status as the top bball school in the Northeast to sell top junior fball recruits on our program. If it wasn't such a open-and-shut case, you wouldn't have to do all these mental gymnastics to try and explain this lost opportunity away.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

The proposition that this staff didn't use/won't use the basketball program to help in football recruiting is simply false. The Duke game was a huge recruiting weekend and led to many very important commits this season and I am sure the hoops program will be very important for the 2015 class too. The difference is that it will be used again this cycle for senior recruits and not juniors which while it may not be an agreeable strategy was a successful strategy in 2014.

There is much discussion on how the current power programs approach recruiting in this day and age. While informative, i believe it is very misplaced in dealing with who we can and will attract to this program in the present. An individual recruting strategy is being developed by this staff that fits their vision of the program and how they feel they can attract the best character athletes to help win games on the field and develop them into productive men off the field. A continuing fascination of how the "big boys" do it will only lead one to be constantly frustrated as we aren't them. A realization of that makes acceptance of our process much easier.

A "official junior day" isn't currently a major part of that plan /vision(doesn't mean it won't be in the future) and i am certain that this has been a well thought out decision and the resources of the program are being used in other more beneficial ways at this time.

I have confidence that relationships are being built that will pay future dividends although we aren't privy to all of that foundational program building at this time. I also won't stress over lack of early commits after seeing what this staff did post-December of this past year. Some want to pass that off as luck and i see it very differently. I believe that the staffs hard work, interpersonal relationships, integrity, focus and patience made the 2014 class what it is and a wavering on any of those fronts during this cycle is not in the programs best interests as we continue to turn the program around.

Let us remember that this coaching staff has recruited from all different levels of football and are fully aware of all of the different ways to attract talent. They have determined the path to follow based upon all of those years of experience. I trust their path. That is not a blind loyalty to the staff it is a reasoned assessment based upon what i've been shown so far and knowing full well the current challenges of getting top-level players to Syracuse University.

 

[anomander]

I have a question for everyone. This isn't me trying to be a wise ass, I honestly want to know everyone's opinions.

From a perception standpoint how do you think we match up against Boston College. Again i'm using Boston College since they are more then likely the best chance of us developing a rivalry with over the years, and going into last season seemed to have been facing many of the same obstacles as we were; ie: location, facilities, stadium capacity, ability to fill stadium, down period.

 

[RMH44]

I meant terrible stretch on the field. Addazio had less to sell and still held his own. We'll see how things work out for him this year. They look to be off to a pretty good start in terms of getting local kids' attention. And that's what junior days are about.

As for Flood, like I said, they did what they were supposed to with the junior days. They got those kids to pay attention. I never even implied that I approved of how they conducted themselves after that. Imagine if we could get even more local recruits on campus early and have Shafer and his staff work their more stress-free approach on them?

In the end, junior days are another tool that all of our competitors have shown can be very useful to their recruiting efforts. There's no refuting that. It makes little sense not to take advantage of our status as the top bball school in the Northeast to sell top junior fball recruits on our program. If it wasn't such a open-and-shut case, you wouldn't have to do all these mental gymnastics to try and explain this lost opportunity away.

Two things. First, please don't give us the "open-and-shut case" condescending bs. Unless you have access to HCSS and staff recruiting planning sessions please spare us the lecture. I'm sure that every possible scenario and variable was considered when the staff was formulating their recruiting strategies.

Which leads me to my second point: Has it been explicitly stated that SU will not have a Jr Day this spring? Maybe all the hand wringing is moot.

As I stated above, I'd be shocked if Jr Days weren't part of the overall recruiting process once the IPF is completed.

Btw...maybe my memory is bad, but I don't recall any successful Jr Day events held when Grob was here. Care to enlighten me?

 

[CuseLegacy]

Two things. First, please don't give us the "open-and-shut case" condescending bs. Unless you have access to HCSS and staff recruiting planning sessions please spare us the lecture. I'm sure that every possible scenario and variable was considered when the staff was formulating their recruiting strategies.

Which leads me to my second point: Has it been explicitly stated that SU will not have a Jr Day this spring? Maybe all the hand wringing is moot.

As I stated above, I'd be shocked if Jr Days weren't part of the overall recruiting process once the IPF is completed.

Btw...maybe my memory is bad, but I don't recall any successful Jr Day events held when Grob was here. Care to enlighten me?

No it hasn't been ruled out. I think though what some are simply arguing that they feel a BB game is a better draw for a Jr Day. I think the use of the Spring Game is just fine and is probably what will be a Jr Day, whether they call it that or not, again this year.

 

[RMH44]

No it hasn't been ruled out. I think though what some are simply arguing that they feel a BB game is a better draw for a Jr Day. I think the use of the Spring Game is just fine and is probably what will be a Jr Day, whether they call it that or not, again this year.

I understand.

As I mentioned in another post, I was surprised to learn that by rule, Jr Days have to be open to the public. Maybe that is why we see smaller groups (like the ones you cited above) of invitees at various spring sessions. We all know that this staff does very well when dealing with recruits on a personal level.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I understand.

As I mentioned in another post, I was surprised to learn that by rule, Jr Days have to be open to the public. Maybe that is why we see smaller groups (like the ones you cited above) of invitees at various spring sessions. We all know that this staff does very well when dealing with recruits on a personal level.

I think you might be under a slight misconception about who is invited to Jr Days.

This article is two years old but it is a good discussion on Jr Days..
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/7561634/breaking-junior-days

How do junior days benefit the player?
For the prospects fortunate enough to earn an invitation to a junior day, it's a golden opportunity to get a jump on the recruiting process. Other early periods on the recruiting calendar cater to the colleges, allowing coaches to gather information about prospects. Recruiting is a give-and-take experience, and junior days provide a chance for the players to observe a program from the inside.
How are junior days changing?
Many schools are getting more selective. Used to be, coaching staffs would cast a wide net for junior days, taking all visitors and turning the event into more of a showcase than a recruiting experience. No longer. Coaches now target smaller numbers. "Players who we want to offer [scholarships] and are really close to offering," Oklahoma recruiting coordinator Cale Gundy said. The right number at Oklahoma is about 25 for each junior day.

 

[supp]

Two things. First, please don't give us the "open-and-shut case" condescending bs. Unless you have access to HCSS and staff recruiting planning sessions please spare us the lecture. I'm sure that every possible scenario and variable was considered when the staff was formulating their recruiting strategies.

Which leads me to my second point: Has it been explicitly stated that SU will not have a Jr Day this spring? Maybe all the hand wringing is moot.

As I stated above, I'd be shocked if Jr Days weren't part of the overall recruiting process once the IPF is completed.

Btw...maybe my memory is bad, but I don't recall any successful Jr Day events held when Grob was here. Care to enlighten me?

Condescending? No one talks down to people on this board better than CIL. And no one does hostile and close-minded better than you.

As for what I know: what I know for sure is that there has been no junior day organized during the bball season when we have a distinct advantage over our local competitors. What you don't know is precisely what you're claiming in your post: "I'm sure that every possible scenario and variable was considered when the staff was formulating their recruiting strategies." So who's your source?

GRob had junior events at bball games. The P-S reported on them. I'm not Lexis-Nexis. Look it up if you have access.

 

[CIL]

Condescending? No one talks down to people on this board better than CIL. And no one does hostile and close-minded better than you.

As for what I know: what I know for sure is that there has been no junior day organized during the bball season when we have a distinct advantage over our local competitors. What you don't know is precisely what you're claiming in your post: "I'm sure that every possible scenario and variable was considered when the staff was formulating their recruiting strategies." So who's your source?

GRob had junior events at bball games. The P-S reported on them. I'm not Lexis-Nexis. Look it up if you have access.

Drama much? My word. That wasn't even close to a talking down -- just ask my kids.

Do people really think this staff forgot how to recruit? Do you think Shafer and Bullough just decided to shay it and decided to drop blotter acid and watch Wizard of Oz on the weekend we were going to have junior day?

If we end up with 5 recruits in February 2015, and one of them needs to blow into a wheelchair to move around I'll be worried. Until then, freaking out on a message board and trying to read tea leaves as to the staff's decisions is an exercise in futility.

We have a lot of good recruiters on this staff and I trust them to get the job done.

 

[anomander]

well what seemed like a decent discussion of differing opinions quickly took a wrong turn.

 

[bnoro]

I have a question for everyone. This isn't me trying to be a wise ass, I honestly want to know everyone's opinions.

From a perception standpoint how do you think we match up against Boston College. Again i'm using Boston College since they are more then likely the best chance of us developing a rivalry with over the years, and going into last season seemed to have been facing many of the same obstacles as we were; ie: location, facilities, stadium capacity, ability to fill stadium, down period.

Location? BC isn't 4 hours away from Boston. That's a huge sell on kids to go there. You can hop on the T and go wherever you'd like there. Kids can't take the subway down into Manhattan.

 

[bnoro]

Condescending? No one talks down to people on this board better than CIL. And no one does hostile and close-minded better than you.

I'm offended you think CIL is better than me at this.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I'm offended you think CIL is better than me at this.

I thought I already vouched that you weren't pompous and arrogant.