2025-26 Preseason Practice

[Sherman20]

Yeah if this was a Boeheim coached team. I think we’d be feeling reallllly good about this year. If JB was on the sidelines I think this team finishes top 4 in the ACC and top 4/5 seed in the NCAA tourney. With Red on the sideline obviously I still think it’s an NCAA team but there is a lot more questions marks just because of Red tbh

I don’t know. Depends on what era Boeheim we’re talking about. He had really lost his fastball the last bunch of years, and the problem wasn’t just about his insistence on playing zone full time. He was set in his ways and stagnated in a number of areas, including running an increasingly stale and unimaginative offense.

 

[23Zone]

This is great news. We know you are close to Red.

Please suggest to him using Donnie at the high post, where he tried to use Eddie last year. Donnie is a much better fit at that spot.

He can pick and pop, pick and dive, shoot over shorter defenders from the foul line, or dribble drive to the rim.

THAT should be the offense this year. Ga Tech running off Donnie at the high post. Kingz on one wing to shoot, JJ on the other wing to drive.

Whoever the center is should be in the low block, contesting rebounds, looking for lob feeds and put-backs.

Lots of off-ball movement and back cuts.

That should be the base offense.

Completely agree. That would be lethal!

 

[Niastri]

In all honesty though we have 4 cupcakes to start the season. We should see real fast just how athletic and mobile both Kyle and Suare are. Then we'll know how they matchup against the bigs at the top of the league in Vegas.

Just a reminder that Lemoyne scored 82 on us opening night, Colgate 72 and Youngstown 73 in regulation our first 3 games. Our first 4 games the teams we're playing should be struggling to get into the 60's until garbage time. If Q4 teams are still easily dropping 70-80+ points on us early on then alarm bells should be ringing.

True, we should have a bunch of starters with 20-25 minutes played and the second team running up the score for another 12-17 before finishing with Zephir, Lobdell, Womack and Diawara (plus whoever needs more minutes) on the floor, still holding their own against the cupcakes.

We should be a lot better, winning by 30 against these low level teams would confirm what many of us think about this squad.

 

[Niastri]

I don’t know. Depends on what era Boeheim we’re talking about. He had really lost his fastball the last bunch of years, and the problem wasn’t just about his insistence on playing zone full time. He was set in his ways and stagnated in a number of areas, including running an increasingly stale and unimaginative offense.

JB's "motion" offense increasingly became an "isolation" offense the last few years.

The success of the 2-3 in forcing turnovers and frequent transition possessions carried us for a few years, but his coaching decisions in general became increasingly questionable as time went on.

Eventually it was hard to watch. I was turning off games before they were over as soon as you can say "yet another Howard/Chukwu pick and roll 35 ft from the basket."

Our last good team was 2013-2014, our first year in the ACC. Led by CJ Fair and Tyler Ennis, that squad had 6 top50 players on it. And even that team had a disappointing second half, stumbling to 7-5 record to finish the season and losing to Dayton in the second round after an earlier number 1 ranking and a 25-0 start.

Our last acceptable performance came in the 2020-2021 season, but we had to play our way into the NCAA tournament by winning a couple in the ACC tournament, before making a mini run to the Sweet 16.

 

[Blanko97]

Defense defense defense. Another year of giving up 75+ points per game is a recipe for disaster. Offense can be coached mid season but its pretty clear defense needs to be taught in the offseason because 2 radicaly different groups of guys havent been able to learn on the fly.

 

[Newhouser]

Appreciate the optimism and I'm probably sitting at like 80% of where you are.

Love the off season. In reality, I would give Red et al like an A-/B+ for the off season and the new team. Can't argue - they did great and you will never shoot the moon and that is ok.

If you see Donnie live, you can absolutely see why he should make the NBA. His jumper needs a little fixing for the next level more than this one and obviously he has to stay healthy, but he is fluid, big, has immense talent and knows the game.

The only two questions I have are tied together: how will Red's coaching be when the ball is tipped and we get punched in the mouth and what is JJ's role, because he has to be more judicious in his choices/more efficient. Not knocking him, I mean channeling his talent to the right avenues.

As it pertains to what I'm measuring success against, which making the NCAAT (and ideally where we aren't sweating the bubble), I think the talent is there. I think the way the talent fits in terms of players complimenting each other is there and, to me, it does matter that this off season has been drama free in the reports from camp.

I think we make the NCAAT. I think Red gets it done: part by growing as an HC and part by having more options to success than he had last year. The one caveat I'd say is that I would guess that a guy or two may not quite hit the highs we want and that's just life that every team faces. But I really like the construction of this team.

To me, we've reacted as well to last year's debacle about as well as could be asked. Stoked for this year.

I think JJ usage will determine the fate of this team. I don't think he is an Alpha. If we play him like he is one...I am not high on our result.

 

[RedtheGOB]

JB's "motion" offense increasingly became an "isolation" offense the last few years.

The success of the 2-3 in forcing turnovers and frequent transition possessions carried us for a few years, but his coaching decisions in general became increasingly questionable as time went on.

Eventually it was hard to watch. I was turning off games before they were over as soon as you can say "yet another Howard/Chukwu pick and roll 35 ft from the basket."

Our last good team was 2013-2014, our first year in the ACC. Led by CJ Fair and Tyler Ennis, that squad had 6 top50 players on it. And even that team had a disappointing second half, stumbling to 7-5 record to finish the season and losing to Dayton in the second round after an earlier number 1 ranking and a 25-0 start.

Our last acceptable performance came in the 2020-2021 season, but we had to play our way into the NCAA tournament by winning a couple in the ACC tournament, before making a mini run to the Sweet 16.

Spoken like a true revisionist SU fan. I remember a 2016 final 4 in there, but I guess that doesn't count cuz it wasn't pretty.

The zone held the 4 tourney teams we beat to 51, 50, 60, then Virginia #1 Seed to 62 points.

No denying the downward trend and poor regular seasons but the program still put together 2 final 4 runs in 4 years over the early-mid 2010's.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Spoken like a true revisionist SU fan. I remember a 2016 final 4 in there, but I guess that doesn't count cuz it wasn't pretty.

The zone held the 4 tourney teams we beat to 51, 50, 60, then Virginia #1 Seed to 62 points.

No denying the downward trend and poor regular seasons but the program still put together 2 final 4 runs in 4 years over the early-mid 2010's.

Those were great runs.

But part of the problem was it gave room for JB to take his foot off the gas. His mentality went from trying to win championships to confidence that once he got in to the tourney he could take his chances, and his energy toward recruiting changed.

Problem being, it's really hard to be good enough to make the tournament every year if your goal isn't higher than that. Once he became content with a lesser outcome, the results followed.

 

[Orangezoo]

Those were great runs.

But part of the problem was it gave room for JB to take his foot off the gas. His mentality went from trying to win championships to confidence that once he got in to the tourney he could take his chances, and his energy toward recruiting changed.

Problem being, it's really hard to be good enough to make the tournament every year if your goal isn't higher than that. Once he became content with a lesser outcome, the results followed.

There was also some roster carryover from the transition of the end of the dominant years ( Ennis year) through that kept some of that edge and expectations until it finally just kind of phased out.

I mean look at the class he heralded with Brown, Taylor, Copeland, Bell and Judah. Outside of Judah ( with no disrespect to Brown) that would not be a class you would have seen brought in 5-6 years prior and heralded as special. That class had traits that went against the grain of the program and the momentum that fizzled out once there was no one left from those teams that knew how to win it went the other direction. Buddy and Joe gave us some moments as did Kadary and Jesse etc but still - not the same level and commitment. It really just fell flat with that recent class and that carried over into Reds first two years.

That mindset and a culture of winning now has to be reset and rebuilt completely.

 

[Niastri]

Spoken like a true revisionist SU fan. I remember a 2016 final 4 in there, but I guess that doesn't count cuz it wasn't pretty.

The zone held the 4 tourney teams we beat to 51, 50, 60, then Virginia #1 Seed to 62 points.

No denying the downward trend and poor regular seasons but the program still put together 2 final 4 runs in 4 years over the early-mid 2010's.

Fair enough. Considering the struggles leading up to that Final Four run, I wasn't counting that team as a good team. I guess they really underperformed until the NCAA Tournament.

 

[OmahaCuse]

There was also some roster carryover from the transition of the end of the dominant years ( Ennis year) through that kept some of that edge and expectations until it finally just kind of phased out.

I mean look at the class he heralded with Brown, Taylor, Copeland, Bell and Judah. Outside of Judah ( with no disrespect to Brown) that would not be a class you would have seen brought in 5-6 years prior and heralded as special. That class had traits that went against the grain of the program and the momentum that fizzled out once there was no one left from those teams that knew how to win it went the other direction. Buddy and Joe gave us some moments as did Kadary and Jesse etc but still - not the same level and commitment. It really just fell flat with that recent class and that carried over into Reds first two years.

That mindset and a culture of winning now has to be reset and rebuilt completely.

Is it a culture, mindset or talent. Bell, Taylor and Copeland did not live up to rankings or expecations for various reasons. Judah was great but not a NBA talent (could not shoot), and Brown is a good role player or guy coming off the bench.

 

[Orangezoo]

Is it a culture, mindset or talent. Bell, Taylor and Copeland did not live up to rankings or expecations for various reasons. Judah was great but not a NBA talent (could not shoot), and Brown is a good role player or guy coming off the bench.

It’s all 3 if you are trying to build and sustain a program. Talent will always vary but culture and mindset, while it can vary, if you lose it completely it’s easy to see how it just gets lost. It can be rebuilt and re established in the portal era for sure but it’s still not easy when it’s done from scratch.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Lol I really have no idea what a lot of our guys look like. No idea which name matches which face in a lot of cases.

 

[baggerbob]

Spoken like a true revisionist SU fan. I remember a 2016 final 4 in there, but I guess that doesn't count cuz it wasn't pretty.

The zone held the 4 tourney teams we beat to 51, 50, 60, then Virginia #1 Seed to 62 points.

No denying the downward trend and poor regular seasons but the program still put together 2 final 4 runs in 4 years over the early-mid 2010's.

Look getting to the final 4 with no chance of winning was fine back in 1975. That was before we became one of the nations elite teams.
Those last final fours we had already become irrelevant on the National Scene.
So no the last good team was 2014, and JB should have left then on a high note, instead he stayed and almost cratered the program.

 

[721Comstock]

Lol I really have no idea what a lot of our guys look like. No idea which name matches which face in a lot of cases.

if only there were a way to search, perhaps online, for the information you seek

 

[cusefan88]

Look getting to the final 4 with no chance of winning was fine back in 1975. That was before we became one of the nations elite teams.
Those last final fours we had already become irrelevant on the National Scene.
So no the last good team was 2014, and JB should have left then on a high note, instead he stayed and almost cratered the program.

Even leaving after 2018 would have been fine. I understand he wanted to coach Buddy but that shouldn't have happened (Buddy far surpassed what I ever thought he could be FWIW).

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

if only there were a way to search, perhaps online, for the information you seek

Yeah. And it would be great if it could fit in your hand, and be accessible anywhere

 

[23Zone]

Yeah. And it would be great if it could fit in your hand, and be accessible anywhere

Sounds perverse lol

 

[pearl31]

The zone held the 4 tourney teams we beat to 51, 50, 60, then Virginia #1 Seed to 62 points.

OK. And that occurred a full 7 years before he finally stepped down. I think the point being made is that those last 5 or so years, except for a couple of fun little surprise tourney runs, were uninspired and stale- from recruiting to iso offense and everything in between

 

[stlorange]

"So no the last good team was 2014, and JB should have left then on a high note, instead he stayed and almost cratered the program."

Almost.....

 

[OttoinGrotto]

if only there were a way to search, perhaps online, for the information you seek

You think I'm here to learn.

 

[Niastri]

You think I'm here to learn.

The season needs to start really soon.