2025 Strategy Shift?

[bnoro]

I forgot about Peña, but if Hatcher and Gill are the best you can come up with over 8 years then i don’t know what to tell you.

Gill had over 500 yards and over 15 ypc this season, he was an extremely solid 4th option for a sophomore.

 

[All4SU]

When HCFB was hired he said, “We will run the ball, and we will stop the run.” In year 1, with McCord behind center, SU was a pass first team. The running game was okay, in that Allen was very good. But whether it was the blocking or the play calls or the RBs or whatever, we were not a “we can run the ball team.” We did run well at times. We were opportunistic. And I think Nixon found ways to work around our shortcomings.

We did not stop the run.

I suspect with McCord moving on, we will move closer to what Fran said early on. Emphasis will be on the run game. OL will game plan differently. SU may prioritize QB play that is dual threat.

This is all speculation, obviously. But I don’t think Fran was trying to deceive. They just shaped the O to McCord’s unique talents. Next year… well next year is next year.

 

[javadoc]

When HCFB was hired he said, “We will run the ball, and we will stop the run.” In year 1, with McCord behind center, SU was a pass first team. The running game was okay, in that Allen was very good. But whether it was the blocking or the play calls or the RBs or whatever, we were not a “we can run the ball team.” We did run well at times. We were opportunistic. And I think Nixon found ways to work around our shortcomings.

We did not stop the run.

I suspect with McCord moving on, we will move closer to what Fran said early on. Emphasis will be on the run game. OL will game plan differently. SU may prioritize QB play that is dual threat.

This is all speculation, obviously. But I don’t think Fran was trying to deceive. They just shaped the O to McCord’s unique talents. Next year… well next year is next year.

Agree. The shift will be to craft a better run game.

 

[SuFTW]

Even mid to lower tier B10 schools are now paying players like that

It’s not that complicated to know the areas you need to improve your roster if you’re a HC. Just like you can walk and chew gum, you can utilize both HS recruiting and transfers from the portal. I think Fran can finally be the right HC, but there’s also been 15 years of “trust the HC” on the forum and where has that got us? Not to mention it’s a fan discussion board. Until he produces back to back top 25 seasons its ok to question if going away from a formula that worked last season with a nice mix of high end transfers and HS recruiting will get us similar results next season.

…there’s also been 15 years of “trust the HC” on the forum and where has that got us?…

Trusting or not trusting the head coach does not actually affect where the team gets to.

So in summary, you don’t think Fran knows how to walk and chew gum as far as building the roster, one year after he did a good job.

 

[vegasnick]

Even mid to lower tier B10 schools are now paying players like that

It’s not that complicated to know the areas you need to improve your roster if you’re a HC. Just like you can walk and chew gum, you can utilize both HS recruiting and transfers from the portal. I think Fran can finally be the right HC, but there’s also been 15 years of “trust the HC” on the forum and where has that got us? Not to mention it’s a fan discussion board. Until he produces back to back top 25 seasons its ok to question if going away from a formula that worked last season with a nice mix of high end transfers and HS recruiting will get us similar results next season.

This comment says all we need to know about you and your knowledge of the topics at hand. To try to insinuate Dino Babers and Fran Brown are on the same level is pure idiocrasy. You are so far in left field, you might as well not be talking the same sport!

 

[City of Cuse]

This comment says all we need to know about you and your knowledge of the topics at hand.

We is a strong word, implies everyone feels the same way.

Im optimistic and loved this year (still have my parking pass from Miami hanging in my vehicle), but also agree that this site has had many people come to this forum over the years and proclaim a change is happening or don’t worry about the stars, or other teams aren’t as good at identifying and so on and so on.

You can throw shade at Dino now, but he seemed like he was the answer when he was plastered on every news outlet giving the VTech speech. Cigar man was the answer when he was locking people in the dome. Bologna was the answer when he was saying this is his dream job.

So, we need more talent, and hopefully Fran and his crew can bring it in to capitalize on the momentum. I look forward to being there when we beat Tennessee.

 

[kcsu]

Quoted for emphasis. To a lot of folks he was just "one of those Georgia transfers."

I think our big value in the portal is giving exposure to underrated backups. If we don't feel we got a lot of talent in the portal, it might just be because we did it right.

I will bet that Meeks was a top 5 portal value in all of college football last season. He was buried at Georgia. Special teams only. Comes to SU for a bag of popcorn and lights it up. Fran knows talent.

 

[vegasnick]

We is a strong word, implies everyone feels the same way.

Im optimistic and loved this year (still have my parking pass from Miami hanging in my vehicle), but also agree that this site has had many people come to this forum over the years and proclaim a change is happening or don’t worry about the stars, or other teams aren’t as good at identifying and so on and so on.

You can throw shade at Dino now, but he seemed like he was the answer when he was plastered on every news outlet giving the VTech speech. Cigar man was the answer when he was locking people in the dome. Bologna was the answer when he was saying this is his dream job.

So, we need more talent, and hopefully Fran and his crew can bring it in to capitalize on the momentum. I look forward to being there when we beat Tennessee.

I never was an advocate for Dino. I also can see a major uptick in talent acquired between Fran’s two recruiting classes, and the previous regime. I posted a comparison on another thread of the level of schools Dino recruited against compared to the level of schools we are competing with now. Dino took at the time a power 5 job and recruited like he was in the MAC. That was never going to work. I will be in Atlanta for the Tennessee game as well- go orange!

 

[vegasnick]

I don't think he's saying that at all. I think it keeps coming back to the same thing:

One crowd is saying that sans Kyle there's a talent problem on the roster relative to the insanely difficult schedule, and that judging by our lack of throwing around dollars in the portal, that Fran may be punting on the 2025 season.

The other crowd is saying they blindly trust Fran to figure it out, which is fine, but even some of these people have indicated he might be semi-punting on the 2025 season.

I agree with anomander that we likely don't have the talent (at the moment) to be dominant against this schedule. The vegas over/under on our win total (as it stands now) is likely to be 4.5 to 5.5. Where I disagree with him is that I actually think it's the correct move to just punt on the 2025 season and use all our NIL on 2026 recruits because it'll be a lot better result long term. The 2025 season may just be about doing well enough to hold onto our 2026 recruiting class, which should be pretty special.

Guys on the hot seat like Mike Locksley HAVE to throw insane amounts of money at portal guys because if they don't win now they are out of a job. Fran has the luxury of directing the money to wherever the absolute best value is.

Punting on a season in college is not like the pros- you get NOTHING for losing. They “punt” in the pros for draft advantages. Now that universities are going to be responsible for paying players- that argument is even less valid.

Syracuse hopefully will continue to build its NIL collectives, to go above and beyond what the school pays. They are a long way away from being able to compete with some of the other schools. That is another reason why Fran is trying to build within and using DART to retain players.

Do we have the talent to dominate? No, absolutely not- we have the talent to compete. We also have the ability to win. He brought in 61 players in the last 2 years of which 23 were HIGH 3 STAR (see my other posts for how they evaluate stars). That is enough talent to win against any schedule with the right development and off season training.

 

[vegasnick]

I don't think he's saying that at all. I think it keeps coming back to the same thing:

One crowd is saying that sans Kyle there's a talent problem on the roster relative to the insanely difficult schedule, and that judging by our lack of throwing around dollars in the portal, that Fran may be punting on the 2025 season.

The other crowd is saying they blindly trust Fran to figure it out, which is fine, but even some of these people have indicated he might be semi-punting on the 2025 season.

I agree with anomander that we likely don't have the talent (at the moment) to be dominant against this schedule. The vegas over/under on our win total (as it stands now) is likely to be 4.5 to 5.5. Where I disagree with him is that I actually think it's the correct move to just punt on the 2025 season and use all our NIL on 2026 recruits because it'll be a lot better result long term. The 2025 season may just be about doing well enough to hold onto our 2026 recruiting class, which should be pretty special.

Guys on the hot seat like Mike Locksley HAVE to throw insane amounts of money at portal guys because if they don't win now they are out of a job. Fran has the luxury of directing the money to wherever the absolute best value is.

x.com

x.com

This article talked about how Colorado directed its NIL collectives to stop paying players and give the money directly to the university. Saving NIL money is not an answer at this point due to the changes happening.

 

[UpstateSM]

There is a plenty of guessing and projecting in rankings/ratings in general but way more so with 3* and below. The hit rate on 4* and 5* is too high to ignore and the results tell you that your roster needs to be made up of lots of those guys to seriously compete nationally. Google Bud Elliot blue chip ratio.

 

[kcsu]

We just need to focus on making it to the ACC championship game. The out of conference games are great but the strategy has to be winning league games. That's our ticket.

 

[JRHEETER]

Wha mind blowing to me is the amount of people the expect us to go grab 20+ players every year in the portal.

It ain’t going to work out.


What do we think other programs do? They develop kids.

Fran truly feels and not just saying it, that his class last season was significantly under ranked.

In order to buy into DART you have to be around for multiple years. Frans philosophy can not rely on 1 and 2 year rentals.

If you want us to be super flashy in the portal, whip out your checkbook, every year.

 

[vegasnick]

Wha mind blowing to me is the amount of people the expect us to go grab 20+ players every year in the portal.

It ain’t going to work out.


What do we think other programs do? They develop kids.

Fran truly feels and not just saying it, that his class last season was significantly under ranked.

In order to buy into DART you have to be around for multiple years. Frans philosophy can not rely on 1 and 2 year rentals.

If you want us to be super flashy in the portal, whip out your checkbook, every year.

Agreed 100%!

Look at FSU- they had one of the best portal classes on paper last year - how’d that work out?

The penn st / notre Dame / Clemson of the world focus on player development. Will we grab a few players every year, some with higher ratings that others, sure. But Fran wants players with multiple years of eligibility that fit the culture.

Fans need to know what the culture really is and how deep it is ingrained into the program. It’s not just a play on words or a talking point.

 

[phil77]

Wha mind blowing to me is the amount of people the expect us to go grab 20+ players every year in the portal.

It ain’t going to work out.


What do we think other programs do? They develop kids.

Fran truly feels and not just saying it, that his class last season was significantly under ranked.

In order to buy into DART you have to be around for multiple years. Frans philosophy can not rely on 1 and 2 year rentals.

If you want us to be super flashy in the portal, whip out your checkbook, every year.

I don't want us to get 20 portal players but I do want us to hit the portal to fill our team needs with veteran players when we are super young at a position and need older players to help us win. For example, I feel we currently don't have the experience needed at the linebacker position and the experience we do have isn't skilled enough IMO from what I saw last year. If we roll out Sparrow and McDonald as our starters our defense will be in trouble and without McCord we will need our defense to be better. So while I agree with Fran we will never be true portal players and we will need to develop players from within when we have glaring holes I would like to see more aggression in the portal to fill those holes with impact players. There is still time for that to happen sure but I would have liked to have some of those holes filled especially if we aren't going to spend top dollar on a QB like last year. The earlier we sign those "rent-a-players" the faster they can get on campus and get use to DART.

 

[baggerbob]

apparently you don’t get it. It’s 38th because they brought in 9 more guys. avg 86.12 this year 86.93 last year. 2024 had a total of 7 or 8 four star recruits (4 on all tos) this year has 1. That’s just HS recruiting and not including the portal. It’s ok to admit that this years class wasn’t as good as last years.

And more recruits were lineman who generally have lower ratings then skilled players. Plus Carney was never rerated by 247 even though the state of Texas re-rated him as the 5th best QB in texas.

 

[longtimefan]

or were ranked 74th nationally in portal rankings. Second to last in the ACC just ahead of Clemson who notoriously doesn’t utilize the portal. Everyone was all excited last year when we were 23rd. But yea, nothing to see here.

Portal season could get very active in April.

 

[farnsworth]

Wha mind blowing to me is the amount of people the expect us to go grab 20+ players every year in the portal.

It ain’t going to work out.


What do we think other programs do? They develop kids.

Fran truly feels and not just saying it, that his class last season was significantly under ranked.

In order to buy into DART you have to be around for multiple years. Frans philosophy can not rely on 1 and 2 year rentals.

If you want us to be super flashy in the portal, whip out your checkbook, every year.

Nobody wants 20+ portal guys but it was pretty nice when we had a top 30 portal class last year and finally had top 30 results.

What people are saying is that our young guys are still too young and not these overwhelming 5 star talents, so we expected at least some buttressing of the roster via the portal until Fran has had 3-4 full classes of his own.

The fact that we are not means that it very well could be an ugly/lost season. That's fine if we're investing for the long term but then people need to stop with the absolutely wild 8+ win expectations for next year.

We're pointing out that there might be short term ramifications to our current strategy. If we go 4-8 are we able to hang onto what should be a really great 2026 high school class? I think these are fair questions to ask/worry about.

 

[bnoro]

Nobody wants 20+ portal guys but it was pretty nice when we had a top 30 portal class last year and finally had top 30 results.

What people are saying is that our young guys are still too young and not these overwhelming 5 star talents, so we expected at least some buttressing of the roster via the portal until Fran has had 3-4 full classes of his own.

The fact that we are not means that it very well could be an ugly/lost season. That's fine if we're investing for the long term but then people need to stop with the absolutely wild 8+ win expectations for next year.

We're pointing out that there might be short term ramifications to our current strategy. If we go 4-8 are we able to hang onto what should be a really great 2026 high school class? I think these are fair questions to ask/worry about.

Not one person has said 8+ wins here.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Not one person has said 8+ wins here.

Didn't you say 6-8?

 

[cayugacuse]

One of the strategy shifts should be containing the outside. Personally, I think it is a combination of inadequate DE and LB talent and coaching. If we played D-II teams they could have run all over us.

 

[PhatOrange]

I know we want to see more "4 star" kids, it stands to reason the more kids we land that playoff teams want probably the better our chances of success. Rivals had us at #37 and us hitting top 40 never happens, maybe that's due to quantity, but either way it's top 40, that said, I'm somewhat bullish on this class.

We had at least 1 kid downgraded from 4 star; Carney and he did nothing performance wise to be downgrade except commit to Syracuse, and we also have some kids undervalued by the sites based on their offers.

Lastly, you have to love the size they're recruiting and our skill kids are all fast as evident by their track times.

< Size >
*6 DBs and not one under 6'-1"
*4 DTs average 6'-5" 285 with two at 315 and 300
*7 OL average 6'-6" 306. Throwing out the highest and lowest the average is still 6'-6" 301 lb
*WR - 3 go 6'-5"

Offers: 17 playoff team offers that I counted.
37 SEC offers
33 BIG10 offers

Luke Carney - QB
Arizona, Arkansas, BC, BYU, Cal, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Minnesota

Antoine Deslauriers - LB
Auburn, Duke, FSU, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Maryland, Miami, Michigan St., Missouri, Ole Miss, Missouri, North Carolina, NC St, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, UCF

Kaylib Singleton - CB
BC, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Iowa St, Kentucky, LSU, Michigan, Miss St, Pitt, Rutgers, SMU, Texas A&M, UCF, WVU

Demetres Samuel - DB
Auburn, Duke, Florida, Iowa St., Illinois, Kentucky, Louisville, Miami, Michigan St., Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ole Miss, UCF

Haleem Muhammad - DL
BC, Cincy, Duke, Florida, Maryland, PSU, Rutgers, Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, WVU

Jayden Mann - OL
Auburn, BC, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Michigan St., Minnesota, Pitt, Rutgers, Tennessee, WVU

Terrell Wilfong - WR
BC, Cal, Cincy, Maryland, PSU, Pitt, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, WVU

Byron Washington - OL
ASU, Baylor, Duke, Houston, Oregon, TCU, Texas, UCF

Quante Gillians - DE
BC, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Michigan St., Minnesota, Pitt, SMU, WVU

Kahlil Stewart - OL
BC, Duke, PSU, Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia Tech, WVU

Eric "EJ" Thomas - DT
Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Missouri, South Carolina

Ziyyon Bredell - CB
BC, Kentucky, Maryland, Nebraska, Pitt, WVU

Darien Williams - ATH
Colorado, BC, Pitt, Penn St., Purdue, Vanderbilt

Gabe Daniels - WR
Georgia Tech, Kansas, Kansas St, NC St., Wake Forest

Elijah Crawford - DL
Indiana, Pitt, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, WVU

Darius Johnson - WR
Auburn, Arkansas, SMU, WVU

Matthew Hawn - OL
BC, Duke, Pitt, Rutgers

Skylar Harvey - OL
BC, Pitt, Virginia Tech

Rayshon Andrews - S
BC, Penn St., Oregon St.

DeAngelo Thompson - DE
Kentucky, Virginia Tech

I've like that we've built up the 'under belly of the team' between last year and this. I think the class is solid based on size, speed and offers.

 

[721Comstock]

I know we want to see more "4 star" kids, it stands to reason the more kids we land that playoff teams want probably the better our chances of success. Rivals had it at #37 which us hitting top 40 never happens, maybe that's due to quantity, that said, I'm somewhat bullish on this class.

We had at least 1 kid downgraded from 4 star; Carney, and we have some kids undervalued by the sites based on offers.

Lastly, you have to love the size and our skills kids are all fast as evident by their track times.

< Size >
*6 DBs and not one under 6'-1"
*4 DTs average 6'-5" 285 with two at 315 and 300
*7 OL average 6'-6" 306. Throwing out the highest and lowest the average is still 6'-6" 301 lb
*WR - 3 go 6"-5"

Offers: 17 playoff team offers that I counted.

Luke Carney - QB
Arizona, Arkansas, BC, BYU, Cal, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Minnesota

Antoine Deslauriers - LB
Auburn, Duke, FSU, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Maryland, Miami, Michigan St., Missouri, Ole Miss, Missouri, North Carolina, NC St, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, UCF

Kaylib Singleton - CB
BC, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Iowa St, Kentucky, LSU, Michigan, Miss St, Pitt, Rutgers, SMU, Texas A&M, UCF, WVU

Demetres Samuel - DB
Auburn, Duke, Florida, Iowa St., Illinois, Kentucky, Louisville, Miami, Michigan St., Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ole Miss, UCF

Haleem Muhammad - DL
BC, Cincy, Duke, Florida, Maryland, PSU, Rutgers, Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, WVU

Jayden Mann - OL
Auburn, BC, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Michigan St., Minnesota, Pitt, Rutgers, Tennessee, WVU

Terrell Wilfong - WR
BC, Cal, Cincy, Maryland, PSU, Pitt, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, WVU

Byron Washington - OL
ASU, Baylor, Duke, Houston, Oregon, TCU, Texas, UCF

Quante Gillians - DE
BC, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Michigan St., Minnesota, Pitt, SMU, WVU

Kahlil Stewart - OL
BC, Duke, PSU, Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia Tech, WVU

Eric "EJ" Thomas - DT
Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Missouri, South Carolina

Ziyyon Bredell - CB
BC, Kentucky, Maryland, Nebraska, Pitt, WVU

Darien Williams - ATH
Colorado, BC, Pitt, Penn St., Purdue, Vanderbilt

Gabe Daniels - WR
Georgia Tech, Kansas, Kansas St, NC St., Wake Forest

Elijah Crawford - DL
Indiana, Pitt, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, WVU

Darius Johnson - WR
Auburn, Arkansas, SMU, WVU

Matthew Hawn - OL
BC, Duke, Pitt, Rutgers

Skylar Harvey - OL
BC, Pitt, Virginia Tech

Rayshon Andrews - S
BC, Penn St., Oregon St.

DeAngelo Thompson - DE
Kentucky, Virginia Tech

I've like that we've built up the 'under belly of the team' between last year and this. I think the class is solid based on size, speed and offers.

I dunno.

Not sure how we should rate these croots - none of them have offers from Akron and/or a Directional Michigan.

 

[bnoro]

Didn't you say 6-8?

8 is the high range but I believe we have the talent on the roster to overachieve with the coaches we have. More than 8? Don't see it.

 

[bnoro]

I know we want to see more "4 star" kids, it stands to reason the more kids we land that playoff teams want probably the better our chances of success. Rivals had us at #37 and us hitting top 40 never happens, maybe that's due to quantity, but either way it's top 40, that said, I'm somewhat bullish on this class.

We had at least 1 kid downgraded from 4 star; Carney, and we have some kids undervalued by the sites based on their offers.

Lastly, you have to love the size they're recruiting and our skill kids are all fast as evident by their track times.

< Size >
*6 DBs and not one under 6'-1"
*4 DTs average 6'-5" 285 with two at 315 and 300
*7 OL average 6'-6" 306. Throwing out the highest and lowest the average is still 6'-6" 301 lb
*WR - 3 go 6"-5"

Offers: 17 playoff team offers that I counted.
37 SEC offers
33 BIG10 offers

Luke Carney - QB
Arizona, Arkansas, BC, BYU, Cal, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Minnesota

Antoine Deslauriers - LB
Auburn, Duke, FSU, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Maryland, Miami, Michigan St., Missouri, Ole Miss, Missouri, North Carolina, NC St, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, UCF

Kaylib Singleton - CB
BC, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Iowa St, Kentucky, LSU, Michigan, Miss St, Pitt, Rutgers, SMU, Texas A&M, UCF, WVU

Demetres Samuel - DB
Auburn, Duke, Florida, Iowa St., Illinois, Kentucky, Louisville, Miami, Michigan St., Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ole Miss, UCF

Haleem Muhammad - DL
BC, Cincy, Duke, Florida, Maryland, PSU, Rutgers, Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, WVU

Jayden Mann - OL
Auburn, BC, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Michigan St., Minnesota, Pitt, Rutgers, Tennessee, WVU

Terrell Wilfong - WR
BC, Cal, Cincy, Maryland, PSU, Pitt, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, WVU

Byron Washington - OL
ASU, Baylor, Duke, Houston, Oregon, TCU, Texas, UCF

Quante Gillians - DE
BC, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Michigan St., Minnesota, Pitt, SMU, WVU

Kahlil Stewart - OL
BC, Duke, PSU, Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia Tech, WVU

Eric "EJ" Thomas - DT
Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Missouri, South Carolina

Ziyyon Bredell - CB
BC, Kentucky, Maryland, Nebraska, Pitt, WVU

Darien Williams - ATH
Colorado, BC, Pitt, Penn St., Purdue, Vanderbilt

Gabe Daniels - WR
Georgia Tech, Kansas, Kansas St, NC St., Wake Forest

Elijah Crawford - DL
Indiana, Pitt, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, WVU

Darius Johnson - WR
Auburn, Arkansas, SMU, WVU

Matthew Hawn - OL
BC, Duke, Pitt, Rutgers

Skylar Harvey - OL
BC, Pitt, Virginia Tech

Rayshon Andrews - S
BC, Penn St., Oregon St.

DeAngelo Thompson - DE
Kentucky, Virginia Tech

I've like that we've built up the 'under belly of the team' between last year and this. I think the class is solid based on size, speed and offers.

Why look at offers when you can look at arbitrary rankings and numbers assigned to us by Brian Dohn?