3 Players graded top 25 by position

[TheCusian]

No. I said, "more points on way more drives is bad." There is a very strong correlation between your drives and your opponent's drives, and each of their drives is a chance to score. The converse is fewer points on way fewer drives is a good thing. It means you aren't scoring as much, but your opponent has far fewer chances to score.

Pace is just an amplifier that punishes teams at a talent disadvantage because A) it leads to injuries and fatigue (mostly of your team because it leads to a smaller time of possession if the other team isn't fast paced), and B) because it minimizes the role of luck, which ignores talent.

Tempo isn't good in and of itself, and failing to recognize that is dumb football.

That's not what you said. I responded the way I did because what you wrote originally was wrong. Anyways... So much here.

- Pace is an amplifier. That's 100% certain. We learned that last year when our yards increased, but our suspect defense had more plays to defend and it showed by giving up record numbers last season. Good teams scored more than they would under a meathead O/D.

- But tempo also = more chances. More chances to score = more chances to win. You combine that with an increased propensity to go for it on 4th down (more than your opponent) and you get even more chances to score.

- This season, our D is middle of the pack - with more plays defended. This means while both teams get more chances, having our D get more stops swings the whole thing even in our direction.

- The injury/fatigue issue can and is actively being addressed by the offseason S&C. You can train for tempo and we do. Not everyone does. Advantage, us.

- Luck? C'mon.

 

[TheCusian]

I know this isn't a popular sentiment on this site, but our system is actually terrible at winning games w/ a talent disadvantage.

It is, however, fantastic for recruiting, and it's good at winning w/ a talent advantage. That's why our recruiting is so vital this season.

We're winning because of a combination of our talent (we're better than we think we are), and our coaching (which is something separate from our system).

It's really not though. Giving the more talented team more opportunities is mitigated by training, coaching, and practicing. Now - there are of course instances where the talent gap is so large that systems and plays per game are largely moot. But that's true for SS or DB coached teams. Talent deficiencies need to shrink to get the odds to where you can pull off an upset - no matter the system.

I don't think you can separate coaching for our system. They are all tied to Dino and his overall philosophy - and that's a good thing.

 

[TheCusian]

If you look at the PFF articles that come out every week, our defense seems to be on the field for roughly 60 snaps a game. Our lack of explosiveness means more ball control, which means the defense isn't facing more plays.

yep - and our efficiency on D is really, really improved. We're better on 3rd down than Clemson, at least by stats - and that's insane.

 

[SoBristol]

I know this isn't a popular sentiment on this site, but our system is actually terrible at winning games w/ a talent disadvantage.

It is, however, fantastic for recruiting, and it's good at winning w/ a talent advantage. That's why our recruiting is so vital this season.

We're winning because of a combination of our talent (we're better than we think we are), and our coaching (which is something separate from our system).

I wish we were better than we think we are, but we have won 3 games when we were favored and were upset at Home by mid-Tenn. Maybe the point is that our offense permits us to put up a better show, against good teams, while taking a L?

We might be over-stating the advantages or uniqueness of our system. There are lots of teams playing no-huddle, spread offenses, and scoring a ton of points.

 

[TheCusian]

Last thing on tempo. I think we've wrongly decided that tempo means both sides get more plays. That's not true by the numbers:

2014, FHCSS
Syr O Plays: 807
Opp O Plays: 838
Difference: Opp Offense had 31 more offensive plays on the year

2015, FHCSS
Syr O Plays: 751
Opp O Plays: 847
Difference: Opp Offense had 96 more offensive plays on the year

2016, Year 1 HCDB
Syr O Plays: 971
Opp O Plays: 870
Difference: Syr Offense had 101 more offensive plays on the year

2017, Year 2 HCDB (6 games)
Syr O Plays: 516
Opp O Plays: 407
Difference: Syr Offense has had 109 more offensive plays on the year, so far*

*That 3rd down D is really ramping this number up for us...

 

[nzm136]

Last thing on tempo. I think we've wrongly decided that tempo means both sides get more plays. That's not true by the numbers:

2014, FHCSS
Syr O Plays: 807
Opp O Plays: 838
Difference: Opp Offense had 31 more offensive plays on the year

2015, FHCSS
Syr O Plays: 751
Opp O Plays: 847
Difference: Opp Offense had 96 more offensive plays on the year

2016, Year 1 HCDB
Syr O Plays: 971
Opp O Plays: 870
Difference: Syr Offense had 101 more offensive plays on the year

2017, Year 2 HCDB (6 games)
Syr O Plays: 516
Opp O Plays: 407
Difference: Syr Offense has had 109 more offensive plays on the year, so far*

*That 3rd down D is really ramping this number up for us...

You're using the wrong metric. Plays is more of a function of defense than drives are, and our defense is actually good this year(!). I think that drives would be more telling.

To your point, a defense that can stop teams on 3rd is huge, and it will dramatically cut down on opponent plays, regardless of what the offense does.

 

[nzm136]

As an aside, I love how much our defense has improved. That's been a fantastic story to follow this year, and I can't wait to see what it looks like when we have an entire team of players specifically recruited to play in it.

We will be dangerously good.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Last thing on tempo. I think we've wrongly decided that tempo means both sides get more plays. That's not true by the numbers:

2014, FHCSS
Syr O Plays: 807
Opp O Plays: 838
Difference: Opp Offense had 31 more offensive plays on the year

2015, FHCSS
Syr O Plays: 751
Opp O Plays: 847
Difference: Opp Offense had 96 more offensive plays on the year

2016, Year 1 HCDB
Syr O Plays: 971
Opp O Plays: 870
Difference: Syr Offense had 101 more offensive plays on the year

2017, Year 2 HCDB (6 games)
Syr O Plays: 516
Opp O Plays: 407
Difference: Syr Offense has had 109 more offensive plays on the year, so far*

*That 3rd down D is really ramping this number up for us...

in 2016 SU may have had more plays - but that was largely a function of the opposition only needing 2 or 3 plays to go 80 yards and score

 

[TheCusian]

in 2016 SU may have had more plays - but that was largely a function of the opposition only needing 2 or 3 plays to go 80 yards and score

I almost added an asterisk for that, lol.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Pro Football Focus grades out college players each, I enjoy looking over the list as it might spotlight a player I don't know much about and also gives me an idea oh good my Orangemen where.
(Syracuse.com does an article each week as well)

Bennett 21st for ILB graded at 86.5
Dungey 8th for QB graded at 85.4 (most will say he wasted crisp on a lot of passes and still graded out top 10)
Martin 24th for SS graded at 78.3, credit goes to pacusewife for pointing out Martin multiple times during the Pitt game to me. He had a very good game in my eyes

Now from time to time grades will be odd take Ravian Pierce this week he was graded out at 46.4. He did have a drop and then drop the shuffle pass that was thrown at his shoulder on the final drive, I guess that countered out his 9 catches for 99 yards.

Oline had it's good and bad. Glad to McGloster putting to a solid season, really worried about the left side of the line as they continue to have issues:

Adams 77.9
McGloster 75.1
Heckel 45.7
Servais 46.3

well, the 2 OL that didn't grade out well are both R-Fr starting in the ACC - I have a feeling those growing pains are going to lead to very good OL play for the next 3 seasons

 

[TheCusian]

You're using the wrong metric. Plays is more of a function of defense than drives are, and our defense is actually good this year(!). I think that drives would be more telling.

To your point, a defense that can stop teams on 3rd is huge, and it will dramatically cut down on opponent plays, regardless of what the offense does.

Yeah - it's an imperfect measurement. But if your'e talking about tempo - you're talking about both sides of the ball. As you've pointed out - it affects both. I just think it's interesting to see the difference with DB. Explosiveness is the missing metric, IMO. And that is very much tied to talent.

 

[SWC75]

Pro Football Focus grades out college players each, I enjoy looking over the list as it might spotlight a player I don't know much about and also gives me an idea oh good my Orangemen where.
(Syracuse.com does an article each week as well)

Bennett 21st for ILB graded at 86.5
Dungey 8th for QB graded at 85.4 (most will say he wasted crisp on a lot of passes and still graded out top 10)
Martin 24th for SS graded at 78.3, credit goes to pacusewife for pointing out Martin multiple times during the Pitt game to me. He had a very good game in my eyes

Now from time to time grades will be odd take Ravian Pierce this week he was graded out at 46.4. He did have a drop and then drop the shuffle pass that was thrown at his shoulder on the final drive, I guess that countered out his 9 catches for 99 yards.

Oline had it's good and bad. Glad to McGloster putting to a solid season, really worried about the left side of the line as they continue to have issues:

Adams 77.9
McGloster 75.1
Heckel 45.7
Servais 46.3

"he wasted crisp on a lot of passes"

Translation, please.