32 teams?

[SWC75]

The wild card has been an overwhelming success.

Just like going to 2 divisions in each league was in the 70s.

Why??

Simple.

More playoff teams.

Which means more City's are still interested longer.

I could care less what the AL West is doing...unless it impacts a Yankee Wild Card birth.

Nobody cares about Penant Races unless their team is in it.

People watch playoff baseball.

The drama has been transferred from August and September to October. During that gap, people switch to football. And a lot of them don't switch back. I consider myself a baseball fan but I look at the playoffs and say "These guys are still playing?"

And more teams in the playoffs means more mediocre teams that don't really deserve a shot at the championship.

I remember having this debate with someone in 2005. The other poster, (it was when we were using the UCONN board for baseball), said "Who wouldn't want the Yankees and the Red Sox playing a seven game series each October?" They had had two classic series the previous two years. The schedule was set up in '05 for them to meet in the last four games of the season in Fenway Park. everybody anticipated that it would be the highlight of the season. When it came time for that series, both teams were already in the playoffs and it was Scranton vs. Pawtucket for all four games. They didn't care who won the division. People said it didn't matter: they'd be playing each other for the AL pennant in two weeks. The Yankees and the Red Sox have never played each other in a post season series since.

 

[Knicks411]

It would be hard for me to be sold that the wild card has decreased the popularity of baseball.

Going to 4 playoff teams from the current format I think would almost certainly hurt baseball. A lot? I dunno. But you're losing playoff games. You're taking more teams out of the playoff race, giving fewer fans reason to watch.

If you just wanted to determine the single most deserving champ or whatever, that idea is probably better, but still not perfect (you could have 2 of the 3 best teams in baseball in one division, for instance) but I don't think maximizing the chance the most deserving team is crowned champion is necessarily good for the growth of the sport.

 

[SWC75]

It would be hard for me to be sold that the wild card has decreased the popularity of baseball.

Going to 4 playoff teams from the current format I think would almost certainly hurt baseball. A lot? I dunno. But you're losing playoff games. You're taking more teams out of the playoff race, giving fewer fans reason to watch.

If you just wanted to determine the single most deserving champ or whatever, that idea is probably better, but still not perfect (you could have 2 of the 3 best teams in baseball in one division, for instance) but I don't think maximizing the chance the most deserving team is crowned champion is necessarily good for the growth of the sport.

I guess it's all about what you value more: more teams in the playoffs and therefore more fans of mediocre teams interested or reserving the playoffs for the teams that have proven they belong there by winning pennants and keeping the general sports fan interested through August and September with a crescendo into the post season instead of going to the back pages for a couple of months. There also the cold weather baseball issue, which this year has been resolved by having Houston and Los Angeles in the Series but obviously it isn't always going to be that way. .

I think if we'd kept the 4 division concept the fans would find it satisfactory and there would be no big movement to change it. The 6 division set up with wild cards was just created because the networks wanted more playoff games.

 

[Knicks411]

I guess it's all about what you value more: more teams in the playoffs and therefore more fans of mediocre teams interested or reserving the playoffs for the teams that have proven they belong there by winning pennants and keeping the general sports fan interested through August and September with a crescendo into the post season instead of going to the back pages for a couple of months. There also the cold weather baseball issue, which this year has been resolved by having Houston and Los Angeles in the Series but obviously it isn't always going to be that way. .

I think if we'd kept the 4 division concept the fans would find it satisfactory and there would be no big movement to change it. The 6 division set up with wild cards was just created because the networks wanted more playoff games.

I think the fans were in favor of the wild card as well. Or at least, if they weren't then, they are now. Agreed your plan would more likely crown the most deserving champion, or at least generally a more deserving champion than the current format.

I don't understand why you think there would be more interest in September under your plan though. There would be fewer teams competing for the playoffs, and there would be fewer playoff spots up for grabs. It would create less interest in September. There's almost always at least one or two playoff chases going on under the current format. There would be fewer under yours. (Just because there are fewer divisions)

 

[MSOrange]

I think the fans were in favor of the wild card as well. Or at least, if they weren't then, they are now. Agreed your plan would more likely crown the most deserving champion, or at least generally a more deserving champion than the current format.

I don't understand why you think there would be more interest in September under your plan though. There would be fewer teams competing for the playoffs, and there would be fewer playoff spots up for grabs. It would create less interest in September. There's almost always at least one or two playoff chases going on under the current format. There would be fewer under yours. (Just because there are fewer divisions)

Totally agree. I'm lost why fewer teams would create more interest. If the Royals didn't have the wild card to play for here, everyone moves onto the Chiefs in a big hurry.

 

[SWC75]

I think the fans were in favor of the wild card as well. Or at least, if they weren't then, they are now. Agreed your plan would more likely crown the most deserving champion, or at least generally a more deserving champion than the current format.

I don't understand why you think there would be more interest in September under your plan though. There would be fewer teams competing for the playoffs, and there would be fewer playoff spots up for grabs. It would create less interest in September. There's almost always at least one or two playoff chases going on under the current format. There would be fewer under yours. (Just because there are fewer divisions)

The wild card race only gets the headlines the last few days. True pennant races are on the front page for weeks. Imagine 1951 or 1978, (and other years) with a wild card. The teams would have been coasting to the finish.

 

[Knicks411]

The wild card race only gets the headlines the last few days. True pennant races are on the front page for weeks. Imagine 1951 or 1978, (and other years) with a wild card. The teams would have been coasting to the finish.

I don't think this is really true now. I suppose it's un proveable, but I follow baseball really closely and people are talking about the wild card race all the time. It informs trade decisions for teams in July.

 

[SWC75]

I don't think this is really true now. I suppose it's un proveable, but I follow baseball really closely and people are talking about the wild card race all the time. It informs trade decisions for teams in July.

I remember that most of the commentary in 1994 was that this was a bad idea for the reasons I've noted. A lot of the people who felt that way have changed their minds. I haven't and that probably skews my view of it. If my Mets are not in it, I tend to lose interest these days until the playoffs and am heavily into football in the weeks before that. If we had a great pennant race between top teams, I would still feel connected to the game. Races between teams that i don't think should be in the playoffs anyway don't do it for me. Maybe I'm assuming that more people feel the way I do than actually do, although judging by front page and lead stories, I do think some national interest is lost due to the fact that the top teams are often coasting in. As in so many sports these days, winning championships seems to be about getting hot at the tight time rather than sustained excellence.

I'm glad it worked out this year that two teams who did sustain excellence are battling it out for the title.

 

[Knicks411]

I remember that most of the commentary in 1994 was that this was a bad idea for the reasons I've noted. A lot of the people who felt that way have changed their minds. I haven't and that probably skews my view of it. If my Mets are not in it, I tend to lose interest these days until the playoffs and am heavily into football in the weeks before that. If we had a great pennant race between top teams, I would still feel connected to the game. Races between teams that i don't think should be in the playoffs anyway don't do it for me. Maybe I'm assuming that more people feel the way I do than actually do, although judging by front page and lead stories, I do think some national interest is lost due to the fact that the top teams are often coasting in. As in so many sports these days, winning championships seems to be about getting hot at the tight time rather than sustained excellence.

The one thing I was going to say was that I guess there might be a little bit more interest in two 95 win teams battling it out as opposed to say 2 88 win teams, but I think that's super marginal.

Also, with the new 2 wild card format, it's kind of rare to see teams totally coast in, as there are benefits even to finishing with the #1 overall record (you face a wildcard team that has already used some of their best pitchers).
Plus, there could be a lot of years with no real races where everyone is coasting in and there are no real races, which would really take baseball out of the news in September.

I really think the second wild card has really helped; it has put a lot of incentive on winning the division. I'm not sure I would be for any more expansion of the playoffs, I think it's a pretty compelling format now.

 

[SWC75]

The one thing I was going to say was that I guess there might be a little bit more interest in two 95 win teams battling it out as opposed to say 2 88 win teams, but I think that's super marginal.

Also, with the new 2 wild card format, it's kind of rare to see teams totally coast in, as there are benefits even to finishing with the #1 overall record (you face a wildcard team that has already used some of their best pitchers).
Plus, there could be a lot of years with no real races where everyone is coasting in and there are no real races, which would really take baseball out of the news in September.

I really think the second wild card has really helped; it has put a lot of incentive on winning the division. I'm not sure I would be for any more expansion of the playoffs, I think it's a pretty compelling format now.

I agree that the second wild card helped in that regard: and that it should be a best of three series rather than a single game.

 

[MSOrange]

The one thing I was going to say was that I guess there might be a little bit more interest in two 95 win teams battling it out as opposed to say 2 88 win teams, but I think that's super marginal.

Also, with the new 2 wild card format, it's kind of rare to see teams totally coast in, as there are benefits even to finishing with the #1 overall record (you face a wildcard team that has already used some of their best pitchers).
Plus, there could be a lot of years with no real races where everyone is coasting in and there are no real races, which would really take baseball out of the news in September.

I really think the second wild card has really helped; it has put a lot of incentive on winning the division. I'm not sure I would be for any more expansion of the playoffs, I think it's a pretty compelling format now.

Very good point. I think the 2 wild card format makes winning the division still very meaningful. Who the heck wants to play a do or die game if they can avoid it? I'll agree with SWC in that when the wild card was introduced, I was a traditionalist and was against it. But now I've grown to like more teams still having something to play for. Seems like there really haven't been that many close division races in recent years, and the wild card races are what's made it interesting for me. Since 2015, there have been 3 division races decided by 2 games and many of the rest have long been over.

Anyway, good discussion. I can see both sides to it, but I'm definitely for the wild card.

 

[SWC75]

I just turned 64, so I get to be the old man on the porch.