36 years in a row

[SWC75]

...and no former SU players in the NBA finals. Whether stars, (Carmelo Anthony), Solid starters (Rony Seikaly), role players, (Jason Hart) or busts (Pearl Washington), the best teams in the NBA don't seem be interested in SU players. Meanwhile we've put 28 former SU players in the Super Bowl, including big stars like Larry Csonka, Art Monk, Joe Morris, Donovan McNabb, Marvin Harrison and Dwight Freeney. Yet the SU basketball program has been far more successful since the 1970's than the football program.

Is that just an anomaly? Is it that there are fewer players on a basketball team than a football team? Is it that, (as suggested by Brent Axe yesterday), that fewer teams make the NBA finals than the Super Bowl as basketball is more prone to dynasties? Is it that football is a game of specialists, (Csonka a power runner, Freeney a pass rusher) but basketball requires you to play the whole game- even guards have to rebound, centers have to handle the ball and shoot, everybody plays both offense and defense. Is it because we play zone defense and the NBA does not?

Bud Poliquin is always complaining that this town doesn't appreciate the NBA as much as it should. We have no problem appreciating the NFL because we've had Jim Brown,. Csonka, Monk, Morris, McNabb, Harrison, Freeney, etc. to root for- star players on contending and sometimes championship teams. We've had two true NBA stars- Bing and Anthony, both of whom have spent their career playing on mediocre or worse teams and neither of whom have sniffed the finals. The rest of the guys were lesser lights or invisible and playing on mediocre or worse teams. it makes it harder for SU fans to connect with the league because they can't connect with a team.

And perhaps the reason why a successful program with a Hall of Fame coach and the largest arena and biggest crowds can't break through to the level of a Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky or Kansas is because guys who might become NBA stars don't see this school as their root to NBA stardom? Wouldn't it have helped our recruiting to see SU players in the NBA finals, especially if they were the star player of one of the teams there?

 

[Brooky03]

a) Our football program has produced significantly better players than bball.
b) NFL teams carry 53 players, 22 of which are starters. NBA teams carry about 14 players, 5 of which are starters.

With the young crop we have in the NBA, which looks to be around for a while, we'll likely see an ex-Syracuse guy in the finals in the near future. Waiters, MCW and Grant aren't going anywhere anytime soon and represent pretty good value options for a lot of teams. Wes is a proven journeyman who will be in the league probably into his mid-30's, so he could hop on as veteran bench depth for a contender. Melo might finally get good pieces around him, though we all know he's running out of time. I'm optimistic.

I don't think any of this reflects poorly on the program, though. There are a lot of very good college bball programs that are in the same or similar boat as us. JB has been recruiting a certain type of player for a long time, which might be the biggest reason for the lack of SU players in the finals. Long and athletic often comes at the expense of skill. The NBA can get long and athletic anytime it wants. The highly skilled players, especially shooters in the current environment, are the ones at a premium in the NBA. We don't grab those too often.

 

[orange2win]

Well in 36 years the SU player who has come closest to making it is Dion Waiters, who came up just 7 points shy in the seventh semi-final game this year.

This may hold a clue to answering your question. Dion was never deemed good enough to start a single game while at SU. We have a different value system at SU under JB.

 

[Eric15]

Dion was never deemed good enough to start a single game while at SU.

I don't think it was that he wasn't good enough -- he was 4th on the team in minutes played. I just think Boeheim found it to be a huge advantage to bring this explosive scorer off the bench and finish games while still playing starter minutes.

 

[skurey]

Still disagree with bringing Waiters off the bench.

 

[bevosu]

46 years in a row with a winning W-L record. I couldn't care less about the NBA.

 

[Eric15]

Still disagree with bringing Waiters off the bench.

We had the best winning percentage of any SU season ever that year. We were doing something right.

 

[721Comstock]

We had the best winning percentage of any SU season ever that year. We were doing something right.

YOU, with your facts, you are not wanted here in the land of HOT TAEKS. :blah:

Besides, Waiters was clearly held back by his 6th man role, as evidenced by his draft position.

 

[SWC75]

Waiters was part of a three man rotation with Scoop Jardine and Brandon Triche. The two guys with the most seniority started but that had nothing to do with playing time each got., Not really any controversy there.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Still disagree with bringing Waiters off the bench.

The NBA agrees with it.

 

[Gabjon]

btw melo played in the western conference finals when he was in denver. DC and Pearl underachieved in the NBA everyone else played to their talent level in my opinion.

 

[skurey]

We had the best winning percentage of any SU season ever that year. We were doing something right.

We did but that's being results oriented.

 

[skurey]

YOU, with your facts, you are not wanted here in the land of HOT TAEKS. :blah:

Besides, Waiters was clearly held back by his 6th man role, as evidenced by his draft position.

Don't think it's a hot take saying your best player should be starting.

Not sure what his draft position has to do with anything.

 

[skurey]

The NBA agrees with it.

Yeah he's not the best player on his team so he comes off the bench.

 

[creatorsgam]

We did but that's being results oriented.

Yeah, and who on this planet wants results?

 

[skurey]

Yeah, and who on this planet wants results?

What I mean is we have no idea the results if Waiters got more minutes. Could have been the same, better or even worse.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What I mean is we have no idea the results if Waiters got more minutes. Could have been the same, better or even worse.

Considering he played terrible in the game we were eliminated in and the guy in front of him played well, my guess is we would have finished in the exact same spot.

 

[creatorsgam]

What I mean is we have no idea the results if Waiters got more minutes. Could have been the same, better or even worse.

If JB came to my place of employment tomorrow and started telling me how to manage my emotionally and behaviorally disabled primary students, I would second guess him.

He is a HOF coach. Not infallible mind you, but at what point do you stop second-guessing stellar results? Success is measured by more than just titles in a sport with over 300 schools participating. Evidence is strong that he got this one right.

But what do I really know about college basketball and what happens behind the scenes at Syracuse? Nothing, because I am a public educator and not a HOF head coach.

Choose your criticisms. If you are a sports fan, playing the "what if" game will produce many different possible outcomes. Enjoy the reality of the moment, not hindsight fantasy. That must be agonizing.

 

[skurey]

I enjoyed that season very much. I just think Dion should have started.

 

[Shark58]

so the whole perception of the universe changes if Rak isn't traded preseason?

 

[HOFCeluck]

I hate results based thinking as much as anyone (just read my posts during the tourney run) but how on earth would we have been better if Dion Waiters started?

 

[OttoMets]

Dion was more talented than the two starters, but he was a headcase who was fat as a freshman and, despite all the quick-hands steals, the worst defender of the group. It made sense for Boeheim to start the other two guys. Maybe he could have ridden the hot hand and not split the minutes so evenly (there were times when I'd rather have had Waiters on the floor than Triche), but people forget how mediocre Dion was during the stretch run (after he rolled his ankle at Nova for at least a month after that).

I'm cool with that part of the roster management.

Joseph getting such heavy minutes at the expense of Southerland and Fair, though...not so much.

 

[billsin01]

Dion was more talented than the two starters, but he was a headcase who was fat as a freshman and, despite all the quick-hands steals, the worst defender of the group. It made sense for Boeheim to start the other two guys. Maybe he could have ridden the hot hand and not split the minutes so evenly (there were times when I'd rather have had Waiters on the floor than Triche), but people forget how mediocre Dion was during the stretch run (after he rolled his ankle at Nova for at least a month after that).

I'm cool with that part of the roster management.

Joseph getting such heavy minutes at the expense of Southerland and Fair, though...not so much.

Yeah, I'm not sure why people are all bent out of shape about saying dion should have started and/or played more minutes. I get where that school of thought comes from when you look at how legit a player he is and how much we've missed having a guy who could create the past few seasons (really since Waiters left).

I had forgotten how bad he was after that Nova game pretty much right up until the finale vs. L'ville.

But I also think you have to look at how that team played and how much better DW was than he was as a frosh and say it's hard to imagine the team being that much better. It's also important to note that JB also gets hammered for playing guys 38-40 mpg all the time and not using his bench, so in some ways he can't win.

The funny thing is the guy who probably actually deserved more minutes in that group may have been MCW, right? I mean, it's not like he got that much better from frosh to soph year and the next season he was the NBA MVP. I think if, using hindsight, I was doling out minutes I'd agree to a few less for Joseph and Triche and a few more for Waiters and MCW. But ultimately -- whether you want to be results-oriented or not -- that's nitpicking in a year that was incredibly successful.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yeah, I'm not sure why people are all bent out of shape about saying dion should have started and/or played more minutes. I get where that school of thought comes from when you look at how legit a player he is and how much we've missed having a guy who could create the past few seasons (really since Waiters left).

I had forgotten how bad he was after that Nova game pretty much right up until the finale vs. L'ville.

But I also think you have to look at how that team played and how much better DW was than he was as a frosh and say it's hard to imagine the team being that much better. It's also important to note that JB also gets hammered for playing guys 38-40 mpg all the time and not using his bench, so in some ways he can't win.

The funny thing is the guy who probably actually deserved more minutes in that group may have been MCW, right? I mean, it's not like he got that much better from frosh to soph year and the next season he was the NBA MVP. I think if, using hindsight, I was doling out minutes I'd agree to a few less for Joseph and Triche and a few more for Waiters and MCW. But ultimately -- whether you want to be results-oriented or not -- that's nitpicking in a year that was incredibly successful.

I think the more appropriate move would have been Dion for Scoop, not Triche. Triche had better numbers than Scoop that year.

 

[OttoMets]

I think the more appropriate move would have been Dion for Scoop, not Triche. Triche had better numbers than Scoop that year.

Eh, not really (except for Scoop's bizarre cliff-dive at the line and a small difference in scoring average): Syracuse Basketball 2011-2012. Throw in the fact that Scoop was the only true point of those three and he's the guy who I wanted out there the most.

For all the Monday morning criticism some of us throw at Boeheim, there's a lot to praise about his handling of the roster that season. A year after no-defense Dion was a prima donna and liability on the court, Boeheim decided not to make the same mistake by letting Carter-Williams play through his problems down the stretch. He did a pretty good job rotating the other three guards and keeping Dion motivated (something that, as predicted, hasn't always been easy in his professional career). The only head-scratcher was giving so many minutes to Joseph, whose numbers did drop significantly. It was tough to see senior star treatment given to someone who was out of shape and backed up by two kids who could've given us some production.