4th down low hanging fruit

[reedny]

If it's incomplete, it's a 30-40 yards swing of field position.

Wut? We're talking about a strategy at, like, the 50 yard line and closer (to the end zone). At that point, having the punter attempt a pass (depending on how far he throws it) isn't that different than having him kick it. Except he has a better chance of it being caught by a receiver than just punting it to to the other team. Field position is roughly the same either way, unless it's "intercepted" and run back. But much easier to control a pass.

 

[upperdeck]

I think Clemson would rather have punted.. we may not have driven it far enough to put the ball game away coming out from the 10 instead of the 40. They may have caught a pass, but an INT or INC were 2 bad things that could happen and only 1 good thing.

 

[Chip]

I think Clemson would rather have punted.. we may not have driven it far enough to put the ball game away coming out from the 10 instead of the 40. They may have caught a pass, but an INT or INC were 2 bad things that could happen and only 1 good thing.

Wouldn't an INT be neutral instead of a bad thing? (assuming he was throwing it way down field). Odds of us catching the INT and having any real return yardage are low.

If Riley was 2 inches taller, that would have basically been a punt. Players don't always get the idea of knock it down.

 

[TheCusian]

Wut? We're talking about a strategy at, like, the 50 yard line and closer (to the end zone). At that point, having the punter attempt a pass (depending on how far he throws it) isn't that different than having him kick it. Except he has a better chance of it being caught by a receiver than just punting it to to the other team. Field position is roughly the same either way, unless it's "intercepted" and run back. But much easier to control a pass.

Not sure what you're thinking - a punt is always a net gain for a the punting team, unless there's a big return or a block. An incomplete pass is a turnover on downs from the LOS. Going for it on 4th and short is smart - passing deep on 4th down isn't, unless it's well designed.

 

[Millhouse]

Not sure what you're thinking - a punt is always a net gain for a the punting team, unless there's a big return or a block. An incomplete pass is a turnover on downs from the LOS. Going for it on 4th and short is smart - passing deep on 4th down isn't, unless it's well designed.

goes to show how desperate he was. he might not know what to do when his team is getting handled

 

[kuethstheman]

Your math scares and frightens me. I will retreat to my warm coccoon of field position.

Haha! I read this as "warm cocoon of fetal position". Works either way!

 

[NKR1978]

I think Clemson would rather have punted.. we may not have driven it far enough to put the ball game away coming out from the 10 instead of the 40. They may have caught a pass, but an INT or INC were 2 bad things that could happen and only 1 good thing.

I feel like an int in that situation would have been awful for us and just as good as a punt for Clemson.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I think Clemson would rather have punted.. we may not have driven it far enough to put the ball game away coming out from the 10 instead of the 40. They may have caught a pass, but an INT or INC were 2 bad things that could happen and only 1 good thing.

If their punter had run the ball rather than opting to pass he might have made the first down. Am pretty sure that is why Dabo was yelling at him and pointing to the replay on the big screen. Whole different ballgame then ... although by that point it was about our offense being able to move the ball well as opposed to a stingy Tiger defense.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Your math scares and frightens me. I will retreat to my warm coccoon of field position.

 

[All4SU]

Swinney's approach isn't bad either (have the punter heave it). If it gets caught by a receiver, first down. If not, it's a punt. Low risk.

I was really hoping our DBs would be smart enough to NOT catch that pass in that situation.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

goes to show how desperate he was. he might not know what to do when his team is getting handled

Yep, kind of like the Russians in 1980, when they never pulled their goalie down 1 to the US. They simply hadn't been in that position for such a long time, they didn't know what to do.

 

[CbusCuse]

If their punter had run the ball rather than opting to pass he might have made the first down. Am pretty sure that is why Dabo was yelling at him and pointing to the replay on the big screen. Whole different ballgame then ... although by that point it was about our offense being able to move the ball well as opposed to a stingy Tiger defense.

Not quite. The play was supposed to be a PPO for their punter. Pass punt option. If the pass play is wide open you throw it. If its not you punt it. The punter chose poorly.

 

[reedny]

I was really hoping our DBs would be smart enough to NOT catch that pass in that situation.

Yep. Between about the 50 and 35 (FG territory), it's not a bad play. The downside is you give them FP if you miss it. The upside is your guy catches it. If the other team intercepts, you play him like a PR.

 

[Millhouse]

Not quite. The play was supposed to be a PPO for their punter. Pass punt option. If the pass play is wide open you throw it. If its not you punt it. The punter chose poorly.

if you give a running back, wr, or punter the option to throw the ball, they will throw it 99.69% of the time, coaches need to know that

 

[Chip]

I was really hoping our DBs would be smart enough to NOT catch that pass in that situation.

Problem was it was a WR back there for the punt return, not a DB. We dodged a bullet thanks to genetics. Teaching moment for him for next time. Punter kicks, you catch it. Punter throws, you knock it down.

Seeing your name in the stats for an interception is a bad thing.

 

[TheCusian]

if you give a running back, wr, or punter the option to throw the ball, they will throw it 99.69% of the time, coaches need to know that

Esp a freshman punter - dude has Watson pajamas in his dorm room

 

[upperdeck]

you are asking a lot for a kid on 4th down to look down field long enough to make the pass decision and then to pull it down and try to punt it when he knows he probably has pressure and his steps will be all messed up.. Asking a punter to fake then punt isnt often a bad thing.. fake it or dont.

 

[Millhouse]

people are making the same mistake as when we messed up the pooch/onside/whatever kick

SU just ran out the clock, unless they could've pinned SU very deep (possible) the only difference it made was that their victory formation would've been a little further back.

Clemson should've just gone for it with a regular play and it says a lot about how well the defense was playing that Dabo resorted to that goofiness.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Any analytics expert will tell you teams do not go for it nearly enough. One of these days, a coach will step forward and going for it on fourth will be the rule, not the exception.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Any analytics expert will tell you teams do not go for it nearly enough. One of these days, a coach will step forward and going for it on fourth will be the rule, not the exception.

I'd love to see an exhibition where both teams agree to not punt. They just go 4 downs all game.

 

[Finwad32]

if you give a running back, wr, or punter the option to throw the ball, they will throw it 99.69% of the time, coaches need to know that

It happens EVERY time... Give a young guy some authority / decision making power and he'll go all in every time.

Literally the exact same thing happened to me years ago at the high school level. The story goes like this:

We were one of the first team's to be running the Shield Punt Pro in Class C... We ran a spread version out of it... Coaches were so befuddled, we literally were never rushed all season... They didn't dare send guys because we could throw quick game and move the sticks. We were actually amazed at how we received no resistance all season.

Last game of the season, for 1st place in our league, we're playing an aggressive opponent... I've got 3 or 4 different punt fakes worked into the game-plan. Our Punter, also our Sr. RB, had the authority to throw seams if the Punt Return team shifted and tried to expose our splits/gaps. Essentially if they rushed more than our protection we would have at least 1 seam running free.

Well, it was a tight ball game, we were backed up in our own territory and the kid wanted to make a play to turn the game... He did not get the look we wanted but threw it anyway. Incomplete, and it was open besides. He came to the sideline claiming he saw the look we wanted, lying like all 18 yr. olds, and we gave them the ball inside our 20...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It happens EVERY time... Give a young guy some authority / decision making power and he'll go all in every time.

Literally the exact same thing happened to me years ago at the high school level. The story goes like this:

We were one of the first team's to be running the Shield Punt Pro in Class C... We ran a spread version out of it... Coaches were so befuddled, we literally were never rushed all season... They didn't dare send guys because we could throw quick game and move the sticks. We were actually amazed at how we received no resistance all season.

Last game of the season, for 1st place in our league, we're playing an aggressive opponent... I've got 3 or 4 different punt fakes worked into the game-plan. Our Punter, also our Sr. RB, had the authority to throw seams if the Punt Return team shifted and tried to expose our splits/gaps. Essentially if they rushed more than our protection we would have at least 1 seam running free.

Well, it was a tight ball game, we were backed up in our own territory and the kid wanted to make a play to turn the game... He did not get the look we wanted but threw it anyway. Incomplete, and it was open besides. He came to the sideline claiming he saw the look we wanted, lying like all 18 yr. olds, and we gave them the ball inside our 20...

As a highschool running back I may have improvised a halfback pass in practice. More than once.

 

[SWC75]

I'd love to see an exhibition where both teams agree to not punt. They just go 4 downs all game.

I've been waiting for a team with a bad or injured punter to do that. Maybe they could quick kick on 4th and 20. That can be a weapon if they don't expect it.